2 weeks in Italy: Need views on Itinerary
 

Hi All,

We are from India and will be visiting Italy (for the 1st time) in April 2012.

Our objective is to enjoy the food :) and visit multiple places to soak Italy's rich heritage of Arts and history. We are planning to spend 15 nights in Italy and with current Itinerary plan to touch 10 places in Italy. We fly into Rome and fly out of Italy from Milan

Want to briefly share our plans and get answers to few specific questions:

Rome: 4 Days (3 days local sightseeing + 1 day trip to country side)
Florence: 6 Days (2 days local sightseeing+ 1X4 day trips to Pisa, Bologna, Perugia, Siena)
Venice: 3 Days (2 days local sightseeing + 1 day trip to Verona)
Milan: 2 Days (1 day local sightseeing + 1 day trip to Lake Como)

As per itinerary in addition to 4 most famous places (Rome, Florence, Venice, Milan) we are also touching 6 towns in day trips (Pisa, Bologna, Perugia, Siena, Verona, Como). We realize that so many trips will be hectic but we are ready for it if the places are worth not missing.

Question 1: We were also planning to cover Lucca but dropped it as it meant reducing Local sightseeing days in either Rome/Florence/Venice.
However want to check if one should prefer Lucca as a day trip destination over any of our 6 other day trips?

Question 2: We have currently accounted for 2 days for local sightseeing in Venice. We like the idea of spending 1 more day in Venice but this would mean removing 1 day drip destination - want advice if we should do 1 more day in Venice and if yes, which town to drop from day trip options

Question 3: Since we will be returning every night from day trips, any of these places which have limited connectivity back to Florence/Venice after 9 PM?

Question 4: How will you rank the following places (if one must:()- Pisa, Lucca, Bologna, Verona, Perugia, Siena, Lake Como)

Will really appreciate your views!

Thanks for reading-Cheers!!

Are you renting a car for part of the trip or just using public transport?

It doesn't appear you've allowed travel time between the cities you are staying in. I don't think you will have as much sightseeing as you think with all the travel. Your trip is also heavy on big cities. I think I would pick a hill town for a few days stay just to have a change of pace.

Siena/Florence is best by bus, but the last bus is around 9 (as is the train). I found Lucca dull, but it can easily be combined with Pisa (they are only 25 minutes apart by train).

Do the "days" you list include your arrival and departure days to and from India? If yes, then you may be very tired from the time change and airline travel on your first (or more) day in Rome. The same is true for the end of the trip--your departure day will entail packing, checking out, getting to airports, and leave little or no time for sightseeing.

If you are traveling by train, you might eliminate one day trip by departing Florence by train in the early morning, stopping in Verona for a few hours (check luggage at luggage at baggage deposit in train station), and continuing on to Venice in the late afternoon. Or you might do the same with Bologna, stopping there on the way between Florence and Venice.

I have visit all the places you mention. Based on your choices, I would probably skip Bologna on this trip since it is another big city. I would choose Siena or Perugia. As mentioned, if you really want to include Lucca, combine it with Pisa.

Fortunately, day trips are optional, so once you are there, you can redesign your schedule based on how you feel then.

I infer that you are traveling by train, since you ask about evening connections. Whether you are traveling by car or by train, you will spend a LOT of time in a vehicle.

Personally, I think you won't be "soaking" as much art and culture as you could if you traveled LESS -- because so much of your time will be spent in a car or on public transport.

I would definitely drop the day trip from Rome. There are marvels outside the city but none of them compares to the riches of Rome itself. Four days allows you just to scratch the surface.

Drop Perugia. It is hard to drive into -- even for me, and I spent three months there when younger. Alternatively, it will require a change of trains.

The other 3 places can be reached easily and quickly from Florence by train (or bus, in the case of Siena) -- if you are determined to make those trips.

If you want to visit Verona, it makes more sense to visit it when traveling between Venice and Milan.

Milan is my least favourite of the cities you mention. I like it because my oldest friend lives there and a visit to Italy is therefore incomplete without a visit to Milan. But much of the city is late 19th century and not all that pretty.

Others adore Milan. Mine is just one opinion.

Mm, I also think you are not counting travel. You need to think about nights as well as days - e.g. 3 nights in Venice means only 2 full days, not 3. What times are your flights and are you flying into Rome & out of Milan, so maybe giving you 1 or 2 part days as well ? Far too much to fit in, anyway. Sticking to the same overall shape of trip, even if you are young & energetic, I'd suggest what you actually have is something like this

Day 1 - arrive Rome
Day 2 - Rome
Day 3 - Rome
Day 4 - Rome
Day 5 - travel to Florence
Day 6 - Florence
Day 7 - Florence
Day 8 - Florence
Day 9 - travel to Venice
Day 10 - Venice
Day 11 - Venice
Day 12 - Venice
Day 13 - travel to Milan
Day 14 - Milan
Day 15 - Milan
Day 16 - depart Milan

Personally I wouldn't do any day trips in this timeframe - in fact I wouldn't bother with Milan, either.

I don't think it's sensible for anyone else to try to rank the places you list. They are very different - e.g. Bologna is quite a big city, Siena & Lucca are very small cities and Lake Como is countryside - and we all have different tastes. You need to rank them in the order they most appeal to *you*.

If you are only staying in the cities you don't want a car, it's much easier to travel by train and/or bus.

Btw who is "we" - I assume there are no children in the equation ?

Yes, Verona is on a more direct route between Venice and Milan than between Florence and Milan. With your heavy allotment of time in Florence for day trips, I thought Florence could spare an early-morning departure. After you decide narrow your day trips you may shift nights a bit, allowing more time in Venice and/or Milan to ease a stop in Verona.

As kybourbon said, do investigate travel time between these destinations. And also include connecting time, the time you have to allow to get to the station to depart, purchase tickets, find your departure location, and then later stop sightseeing and head to the station for your return. In an unfamiliar place, I suspect you should allow at about 20-30 minutes each way. So if a train to Pisa takes 1 hour, add 20-30 minutes each way--about 3 hours travel out of your day in Siena.

Check train times here:
http://www.fsitaliane.it/homepage_en.html

Just noticed a typo in my comment.

"So if a train to Pisa takes 1 hour, add 20-30 minutes each way--about 3 hours travel out of your day in PISA."

I agree with the other recommendations to skip Milan. We were there July 2010 and loved it, but that was our 3rd trip to Italy and I would not try to fit it in on a first trip. Also, we stayed on Lake Como for 3 nights (Bellagio) and I would not recommend a daytrip. I really didn't enjoy it during the day because it was overrun by daytrippers - much more enjoyable in the late afternoon and evenings when the crowds are gone.

I also agree with the recommendations of trying to do some locations on the way from one large city to another rather than as a daytrip. We did Verona on our drive from Bellagio to Castelrotto (Dolomites) and absolutely loved it!! What a fabulous town, had an incredible lunch at Osteria il Bertoldo (http://www.osteriailbertoldo.com/index.en.html) off the main piazza.

We have also spent 5 nights in Bologna and loved it, but have to agree with others as a daytrip it will feel like another big city. I would stick with Lucca and Siena - they are great as daytrips from Florence.

Spend your full 4 days in Rome - you will barely scratch the surface there - save the countryside for your daytrips from Florence.

Sorry - too many places and not allowing any time to get from one place to another. '

You are counting quite a few days twice - you cannot count the day you travel from Rome to florence for both cities - you really count it as either city. At most it is a 1/2 day late afternoon/evening in the arrival city.

This is one of the times when less is more. Visit more museums and sights and spend less time just sitting on a train looking out the window.

If it were me I would want 6 nights in Rome, 5 in Florence (assuming 2 day trips) and 4 at lest in Venice. I don;t rally care for Milan - not nearly Italian enough - but then I;m a history buff.

All (kybourbon,ellenem,tedgale,caroline,jgg,nytraveler )- Thanks a lotttt for your feedback!! Really appreciate it and am glad we posted here.

Listening to you guys, many things are very clear- club lucca with pisa, account for more time in rome, drop milan (but looks unlikely for us as flying out of Milan),cover verona on the way to venice-milan.

Based on your experiences above, we will be reworking the trip (needless to say, will get itinerary reviewed again by you experts :) )

One question: I know that train stations in Italy have left luggage places to leave bags for few hours - Want to know how safe and reliable are they (e.g.in verona,perugia)??? Can i absolutely trust them with my clothing bags??(ill still keep valuables/docs with me personally!)

Thanks again!

Will you be in Italy on Easter Sunday, April 8th?

No. We plan to take 2 weeks between April 20-May 10.

Those stations that have left luggage (Deposito Bagagli) rooms are very reliable, with guards at all times. My recent experience is that you must provide a photo ID which they photocopy and attach to the luggage. However, not every station has a left luggage room. The larger stations like Roma TE, Firenze SMN, Venezia SL, Milano CLE, Bologna CLE, and Verona PN definitely have them. I'm not sure about Perugia--passed through the station quickly and didn't notice the services.

You can search for hours of operation and fees for storage for the stations I mentioned here:
http://www.grandistazioni.it/cms/v/i...0080a3e90aRCRD

These posts are wonderful! While in Rome, check out www.romeconnections.com ask for Max! A wonderful tour company and amazing tour directior! Can't say enough about this memorable tour!

I think if one of your major objectives is to enjoy the food, then you won't regret your visit to Milano, which has the best restaurants of all the places on your itinerary.

If you react negatively to Milano, it is a very easy city from which to take day trips. Bologna is 50 minutes away, Mantova is close, Torino is 90 minutes. All have great food and interesting sights.

I enjoy Milano -- especially at the end of trip that is all about antique Italy. The wide streets, the 24 hour modern city, the great food, the ethnic mix -- it's an important side of today's Italy, with many interesting things to see from many eras.

PS: I should add that if you have pretty weather, it's not hard to get to the prettiest views on Lago di Como for lunch. Food may not be great but it is still a very, very beautiful sight.

Hi All, after going through all the suggestions, we have made few changes to the plan. Here is revised Itinerary- a big change is that now we leaving from Venice as it has better connectivity for India and therefore need help in finalizing 3 days (day 10,11,12)

Day 1 - arrive Rome
Day 2 - Rome
Day 3 - Rome
Day 4 - Rome
Day 5 - travel to Florence
Day 6 - Florence
Day 7 - Florence
Day 8 - Florence
Day 9 - Florence
Day 10 - Travel to Bologna/Milan/directly to lake como
Day 11 - sightseeing in Bologna/Lake Como
Day 12 - travel to Venice
Day 13 - Venice
Day 14 - Venice
Day 15 - Venice
Day 16 - Travel to India

We are confused what to do after florence:
Q1: Should we go to Bologna and spend 2 nights there or should be go to lake como? (me and my wife would like to go to Como but logistics looks difficult from Florence---2 Hr train to milan + 1-2 hrs wait + 1 hr train to como)-- we are not sure if traveling 5 hrs for 2 days will justify spending 1 day at the lake?

Q2: If you suggest Lake Como instead of Bologna then should one directly go to Lake Como (Skip Milan) and stay overnight in Como or stay at Milan and do lake como as day trip? In all cases, we will travel to venice on day 12.

Thanks a lot! My wife and me really appreciate your help!

Lake Como and Bologna are such different destinations that it would be hard for a stranger to tell you which place you should choose. IMO, time on a lake would be a nice break from all the time you're spending in cities.

I'm guessing you searched the train journey from Florence to Lake Como with the destination being the city of Como. Instead, search Florence to Varenna Esino, and you'll find the journey is 3.5 hours with about a 30-minute connection in Milan. From Varenna, you can easily ferry to other mid-lake towns which are a much longer ferry ride from Como. You'll still have a 4-5 hour journey to Venice from Varenna Esino.

Or, you could go to Lake Garda instead and save a few hours on the train.

Logistics aside, if I had to choose between Lake Como and Lake Garda for very short stay, I'd pick mid-Lake Como.

I was afraid to read your itinerary when I saw your user name. But this last iteration looks very good. Excellent choice to fly out of Venice.

Regarding the choice of Lake Como vs. Bologna, they are very different places. Bologna a biggish city with good food, Lake Como very beautiful with views of the lake and the Alps.

Let me throw in a third option, a couple days in Siena. It's between Rome and Florence so fits well with your itinerary. It's a small town in lovely countryside so more relaxing than another big city. We took a very memorable bus ride from the train station in Chiusi to Siena which introduced us to the beauty of rural Tuscany. Google images of Tuscany; southern Tuscany is what you'll see.

Your itinerary is looking great!! I have to agree with Mimar's recommendation of staying in Siena or somewhere in the Tuscan countryside. Being in the country (or the lakes) would be a nice break from all the cities, but Siena will be so much simpler to get to, and give you more time to relax. If you do decide to stay in Siena and one of your days in florence was meant to be a daytrip to Siena than I would take that day from Florence and add it to Rome - that would give you 4 full days in Rome which will be needed!

That looks much better !

Bologna makes a lot more sense than Lake Como as you only have 1 whole day to spare. And Bologna is a food capital of Italy - it's much more known for gastronomy than is Milan.

Even if you are still flying out of Milan, as long as your flight isn't in the morning it will be no trouble to travel directly from Venice to Milan to Milan airport.

I can't agree with your last statement, c_e. Maybe I've been unlucky, but I've had not infrequent problems on Italian trains: delays, breakdowns, strikes and once a suicide on the tracks. I would never take the train from Venice to Milan the same day as a flight. What happens if you miss your flight? Will you have to pay an excessive last minute fare for the next available flight? And when will that flight with available seats be?

OP I like your plans of using the cities as a base and doing lots of daytrips out. I think this will make for a more relaxing trip. If you plan on major shopping then stick with Milan, otherwise I'd try to see Pompeii and Herculaneum instead if I were you. They are much more cooler then anything in Milan. And Milan train station is incredibly large and disorganized, not a fun place when you have luggage with you.

Mimar, maybe I have been lucky but to me that's a reasonably short and straightforward journey to do the same day as flying out - assuming, as I said, their flight isn't in the morning. I've never travelled back to where I'm flying from other than the same day as flying out - e.g. I've travelled the same day from Capri to Rome Ciampino (walk, hydrofoil, taxi, train, underground, bus) and Malcesine to Venice airport (bus, train, bus), without giving it a thought. In 23 trips to Italy so far, quite a few using trains, I've only ever had one delay - when workers at a factory between Pisa and Florence were told the factory was closing and they all walked out & sat down on the railway line, which I thought was very Italian & quite stylish ! (This was 19 years ago.) Just in case it's of interest - this was just after flying in, the guys I was sharing a compartment with and I hatched a plan to hire a car when we got back to Pisa, but it wasn't necessary as the train then went to Florence via another route. However if you did miss your flight due to something like this, a decent airline would probably just put you on the next flight free, or if not your travel insurance would cover the cost of a replacement flight and hotel accommodation if necessary.

Hi Everyone,
Thank you all for your detailed views and wonderful insights! We have finally decided on an itinerary that we like and it captures many of the suggestions from the forum!

Have gone ahead and blocked the flights too :) We really appreciate all the help and are very thankful!!

As mentioned we have decided to fly out of Venice and do florence-lake como-venice between day 10-12.

Thanks again everyone for the help! Have started a new topic to find high quality/low budget accomodations in rome/venice/florence/como.

Cheers

In Florence check out the Hotel Axial. Excellent location. Staff is friendly and helpful

Hi Friend!
We spent 18 wonderful days in italy in May of this year. I spent quite a bit of time planing the trip & it turned out PERFECT!(see below)
Here are some thoughts:
* we booked with Euorepean Destinations for the flight & hotel in Venice & Rome - Quite friendly & reasonable
* Start in Venice (3 or 4 days)
* Rent a car leaving Venice for your Tuscany vist (must have)
* Check out the Villa listed below (It was only like $900 US dollars for a week stay)
* Drop off the car when you get to Rome (Hotel below was a 10 minute walk from car drop off)
* Take the subway in Rome -Cheap & easy

Hope this is a help- Have a great trip!

* day 1 VENICE * AM –Boat from airport to St. Mark's Sq.
Vaporetto Boat from Airport (15 € )

* Early Afternoon – Check into hotel
* Hotel – Gorizia A La Valigia (small but right off St. Marks)
* Early Afternoon – Walk to St. Marks Square
*BASILICA SAN MARCO (RESERVATIONS on line-no charge)
* Evening
* Dinner near Ponte Rialto
Ristorante alla Madonna
* Evening – Vaporetto -Get 3 day pass -#1 Ride up grand canel The vaporetto lines 1 and 82 travel along the Grand Canal from Piazzale Roma to the Lido, allowing passengers to view the wonderful buildings that stand alongside the Canal until it reaches the San Marco Basilica

* day 2 VENICE
* Morning
Rialto Bridge Market

* Early Afternoon
* Lunch at San Marco
Algiardinetto

* Afternoon
Doge's Palace * Evening
Dinner
Osteria Ae Sconte

* Coffee & desert Outside in St. Mark’s Square
Caffe Florian (Expensive but a must do)

*day 3 VENICE
* Morning
Varoretto to Murano
Take lines 71 and 72 from S. Zaccaria (just up the Riva degli Schiavoni from St. Mark's Square) or Piazzale Roma. Get out at the stop marked "Museo." This will bring you within a few hundred yards of the Museo Vetrario, the glass museum. What you’ll see and learn there will help you understand what you see on the rest of your time there.
Vecchia_Murano_Glass_Factoryl

* Afternoon
Varoretto to Burano
* Have lunch in Burano & walk around

* Evening
Dinner
L'anice Stellato (read the reviews-sounds great)
L'Anice Stallato was outstanding. Started with the tagliatelle with some sort of beef (veal?) sauce we practically inhaled, then lamb, then chocolate mousse, then went off menu like the locals for the lemon ice cream/vodka/prosecco drink/dessert. Wow.


day 4 LEAVE VENICE
* AM –
Boat from St. marks to Marco Polo Airport:

Rent car at airport:
Autoeurope -Midsize Manual
* Late AM -Drive toward Villa (3 hour & 45 min to Villa)

* Early Afternoon (Almost Half way to the Villa –1 ½ Hr. from Venice)
Stop for lunch in Bologna (Al Sangiovese maybe?) (Video of Bologna)
Buy food for Villa (see web site-Stuff looks great!)

* Late Afternoon (Get to Villa –Eat drink Hot tub!!!!)
VILLA CENTOPINO - check it out! Wonderful 2 bedroom villa on 25 acres with pool & hot tub/ VERY Reasonable -Great home base to explore Tuscany


* TUSCANY /Take it easy!
* Afternoon
MONTECASTELLI PISANO (TOWN ON THE HILL IN THE VILLA PIC)
* Late Afternoon/Early evening
LA PERGOLA FOR DINNER

* TUSCANY - PISA
* AM –Drive to Pisa (1 hour & 45 min)
SIGHT SEE- TOWER, PIAZZA DEL DUOMO ,BAPTISTERY ETC
Don’t forget to try some of Pisa's famous biscotti (biscuits or cookies). Bakeries all through town will sell multiple varieties, for a low price.

* Late Afternoon Lunch
OSTERIA CAVALIERI (CHECK OUT MENU)

* TUSCANY (– WINE TOUR & MONTALCINO
* AM –Drive to winery (1 hour & 45 min)
WINERY TOUR:FATTORIA DE BARBI WE HAVE RESERVATIONS FOR 12.00
Public tours (groups of less than 8 persons)
in the aging cellar take place from Monday to Friday at 12 a.m, 3p.m .
Cost per person 5.00 € , free for children.

* Afternoon Lunch at Ristorante Il Leccio
In Sant'Angelo in Colle –Ask directions at winery

* Afternoon
MONTALCINO -16TH CENTURY CITY

* TUSCANY - FLORENCE
* AM –Drive to Florence (1 hour & 30 min)
PARK AT PIAZZLA MICKELANGELO - free parking/greta view & nice walk into city

ACCADEMIA GALLERY -MICHAELANGLO'S DAVID
NEED TO BOOK TICKETS ON LINE
It the most famous museum in Florence, for it houses some of Michelangelo’s most powerful sculptures as the gigantic “David”, originally in the piazza della Signorina where a copy now stands.

* Afternoon Lunch
TRATTORIA MARIO (CHECK IT OUT)
Open for Lunch only.
Seating from 12:00 to 3:30

* Afternoon
SAN LORENZO MARKET
The market was amazing. It was one of the highlights of my trip. I spent hours walking through the market. Anybody visiting Florence must go to the market!

PONTE VECCHIO
The row of shops is interrupted in the center and the bridge opens over the Arno with two splendid, panoramic terraces. Here in 1900, they put up the bust of Benvenuto Cellini, that ingenious Florentine goldsmith and sculptor.

* TUSCANY - SIENA
* AM –Drive to Siena (1 hour)
Piaza del Campo sightsee & lunch
* Afternoon Lunch
* Guidoriccio
Via Giovanni Dupre, 2 0577 4 4350
In Via Giovanni Dupre, a few steps from Piazza del Campo (leaving the Campo as you pass Piazza del Mercato), you can descend a flight of stairs and find yourself in this small but pleasant restaurant. Divided into small rooms, it has stone vaults typical of the old town centre and flagged floors. The food is varied and not just Tuscan in style

DUOMO -CHURCH Siena's Gothic cathedral is full of treasures, including its marble pavement, Piccolomini library frescoes and incredibly ornate interiors.

* LEAVE TUSCANY for ROME
AM -Drive to Rome * (3 hour & 20 min on Highway)
4 hour & 20 min along the ocean)
·Stop for lunch along the coast

* ROME
Afternoon –Drop car at Termini, walk to hotel
HOTEL PIEMONTE

* Late Afternoon
* GET 3 DAY TERMINI PASS/ GO TO TREVI FOUNTAIN/ SPANISH STEPS (Spagna Station)
A 3-day pass costs €11, and lasts from the moment you stamp it until midnight of the third day.
TREVI FOUNTAIN (VIDEO)
* Evening –Dinner by fountain
Trattoria Al Moro

* ROME
* Late Morning
GO TO PALATINE HILL, THE COLISEUM, ARCH OF CONSTANTINE (ALL IN THE SAME AREA)
· (TERMINI TO COLOSSEO STATION)

* ROME * Morning
* GO TO VATICAN CITY FOR ST. PETER’S & VATICAN MUSIUM
Leave for home from Rome

On first reading your itinerary I thought you must have been the Indian couple (US residents) we met at our B & B in Florence a couple of weeks ago - all speed and must see what someone else says is the "must not be missed" thing. Do your own research on things that interest you. There is no point in going to a church if you have no connection with the religion and do not understand the religious connections with the art within it. Churches are meant to be quiet places of contemplation, but we constantly see foreigners talking loudly and snapping photographs when the signs clearly say that silence is required and no photography.
We have completed our third trip to Italy - this time just 4.5 weeks taking in Milan 4 days, Genova 3 days, Cinque Terre (overrated) 3 days, Lucca 3 days, Florence 4 days, Arezzo 3 days, Orvieto 2 days, Tivoli (also overrated) 2 days and finally Rome 5 days. We have been to Milan Florence and Rome previously. Even so we found new things to see at a pace that was not speedy so that we could understand and enjoy rather than just tick off a brag list. In Milan, we walked around the Navigli area, went to the Cimiterio Monumentale, the Pinoteca Ambrosiana. In Rome we went on the Scavi tour, climbed to the top of St Peter's, went to Castel San Angelo.
In Florence we climbed the campanile having climbed the dome on a previous trip.
Our whole trip was based on public transport - trains (and yes although Italian trains do generally run on time, they can be cancelled or retardo and you will miss your plane). Only twice did we take a expensive taxi ride - in Tivoli as the public transport is woeful and the station is a long way from the centre of town.
We have travelled to the three major lakes in the north, Maggiore, Como and Garda. They are all very different and have different things to do. Como town is quite small and can be seen on a day trip. The ferry trip up to Varenna is long and doing the journey to Varenna by train from elsewhere is a long journey with a change of train. Varenna is a lovely town with lots of stairways rather than laneways.
Verona and Mantua can be combined but certainly not in one day.
Three days in Venice and you will merely see the tourist tinsle the town puts on. If you want genuine Murano glass go to David's store in the Jewish Ghetto. It can have odd hours but you will be sure to get genuine Venetian glass here - it is correctly stamped. A lot of the Murano glass is now made in China and you really cannot tell the difference unless you are a glass expert.
In Rome the buses are easy to use but need to understand the time table. The 64 or 40 Express run between Termini and the Vatican. They pass the Victor Emmanuele Monument and stop close to the Pantheon and Piazza Navona. Everything in Rome is within walking distance. You do not need to take public transport unless youa are staying in Prato or Trastevere.
Enjoy your trip, but make it yours and not someone elses.