2 weeks in 3 of France's "2nd" cities - Lyon, Dijon, and Marseille
Oct 25th, 2019, 06:23 AM
#21
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Enjoying your report and photos of Lyon and Marseille. We spent a day in Marseille once. Walked around the port, had lunch, and bought our daughter and son-in-law an anniversary gift in a big department store there. I forgot the name of the store. We need to spend more time there.
Did you take the train from Marseille to Dijon? How long was the ride?
Did you take the train from Marseille to Dijon? How long was the ride?
Oct 25th, 2019, 03:41 PM
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I took the train from Marseille to Dijon. I think it was close to 4 four hours, but it was pretty comfortable, and given that there was a major heat wave going on, being on a relatively cool train was fine with me. I was a bit spooked because I got an email from SNCF saying that there could be disruptions due to the excessive heat, and ticket holders could reschedule for free- and if you didn't want to then at least be sure to bring a lot of water. But it was more or less on time.
But first I did a couple of day trips from Marseille.
CASSIS – “A picture perfect fishing village guarded by ruins of a medieval castle (1381) (Chateau de Cassis, now a luxury hotel). The prettiest coastal town in Provence. Pastel cubist houses frame the port, unadulterated charm.” Pretty much does describe it. Certainly a tourist town these days with plenty of boats, some of them might actually be used for fishing, the majority are pleasure craft but some are really cute. And tons of excursion boats into the calanques.
Cassis is the end point of the calanques boat tour from Marseille that I took the other day, and because of that and the map I knew Calanque de Port-Miou – a long narrow calanque completely lined with sailboats – was just around the point from Cassis harbor. With a handy map from the TI I hiked up there, took less than an hour and does have gorgeous views if you walk out onto the rocks far enough (tad scary but probably pretty safe). You can hike to several other clanque from Cassis but the map says they are 3 or more hours.
Bus to Cassis: This was an interesting experience. I took the metro to Castellane where I had previously visited to scope out exactly where the M8 bus stops (got all this info from the TI). It’s a huge square with about 10 different bus shelters. Got there around 10:30 for 11:00 bus. By 10:55 there were about 30 people waiting, all asking each other if this was where the bus to Cassis stops and getting affirmative answers. Then this guy shows up (out of I don’t know where) and says for bus to Cassis follow me – and all 30 of us run across the huge square and down a side street where the bus was. Don’t know what the hell that was all about, on the return the bus stopped right across the street from where we were originally waiting. Took a good ten minutes for everyone to get on. I was able to use my 72 hour metro pass which I though was a good deal since it certainly isn’t within the Marseille city limits. The trip took about 40 minutes (cool, inter-city type coach bus). Drops off a 10 minute walk from the harbor. When I got back to that spot at 17:00 there were already about 30 people waiting (all sitting along the curb). By the time the bus got there at 17:15 there were way more than the 60 or so a bus can hold. Not sure if they all got on but I think I saw another bus had pulled up behind us so maybe they send two for that run on summer Sundays. In any event, the next scheduled bus was a half hour later.
But first I did a couple of day trips from Marseille.
CASSIS – “A picture perfect fishing village guarded by ruins of a medieval castle (1381) (Chateau de Cassis, now a luxury hotel). The prettiest coastal town in Provence. Pastel cubist houses frame the port, unadulterated charm.” Pretty much does describe it. Certainly a tourist town these days with plenty of boats, some of them might actually be used for fishing, the majority are pleasure craft but some are really cute. And tons of excursion boats into the calanques.
Cassis is the end point of the calanques boat tour from Marseille that I took the other day, and because of that and the map I knew Calanque de Port-Miou – a long narrow calanque completely lined with sailboats – was just around the point from Cassis harbor. With a handy map from the TI I hiked up there, took less than an hour and does have gorgeous views if you walk out onto the rocks far enough (tad scary but probably pretty safe). You can hike to several other clanque from Cassis but the map says they are 3 or more hours.
Bus to Cassis: This was an interesting experience. I took the metro to Castellane where I had previously visited to scope out exactly where the M8 bus stops (got all this info from the TI). It’s a huge square with about 10 different bus shelters. Got there around 10:30 for 11:00 bus. By 10:55 there were about 30 people waiting, all asking each other if this was where the bus to Cassis stops and getting affirmative answers. Then this guy shows up (out of I don’t know where) and says for bus to Cassis follow me – and all 30 of us run across the huge square and down a side street where the bus was. Don’t know what the hell that was all about, on the return the bus stopped right across the street from where we were originally waiting. Took a good ten minutes for everyone to get on. I was able to use my 72 hour metro pass which I though was a good deal since it certainly isn’t within the Marseille city limits. The trip took about 40 minutes (cool, inter-city type coach bus). Drops off a 10 minute walk from the harbor. When I got back to that spot at 17:00 there were already about 30 people waiting (all sitting along the curb). By the time the bus got there at 17:15 there were way more than the 60 or so a bus can hold. Not sure if they all got on but I think I saw another bus had pulled up behind us so maybe they send two for that run on summer Sundays. In any event, the next scheduled bus was a half hour later.
Oct 26th, 2019, 04:19 AM
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NIMES
Despite being in theLanguedoc-Roussillon region (Marseille is in Provence), Nimes, population 148,000, is only a one-hour train ride away. If it weren’t for the Roman monuments (and they ARE outstanding and reason enough to go) Nimes would just be another medium sized city. It’s well kept, there are several parks, lots of pedestrianized shopping streets and a few nice squares. The street leading from the train station to the arena is itself almost a park with lots of trees and benches. There are sycamore trees, cicadas – you know you are in Provence - but the buildings in Nimes are kind of ‘hum’, and it just doesn’t have much character.
Arènes (Amphitheater) - 1st C AD. Could seat 24,000 spectators, It is 20th in size but supposedly #1 in state of preservation of all the existing Roman amphitheaters. (Nimes 133x101, Pula 132x105, Arles 136x 109, Rome 189x156, Verona 152x123). The Amphitheater was transformed into a fortress in the 5th C and then a knight's castle during the Middle Ages. Now restored to its original purpose – which of course means modern seating and staging that does detract from the picture. Still it is pretty amazing how large and complete it is.
Maison Carree - one of few, fully preserved classical Roman temples remaining in the world. 1st C BC. Although there are modern buildings surrounding it, there is enough space left around it that the building can be appreciated. It inspired builders of La Madeleine in Paris, and Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia Capitol building. The interior however has not been restored, it houses a theatre showing a video on the history of Nimes, every half hour.
Strolling through town the first square you come to is Place du Marché, which features two figures from the Nîmes coat of arms: a crocodile and a palm tree symbolizing the Emperor August’ defeat of his arch rival Marc Antony and his lover Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt. The crocodile sits in the middle of a fountain and there is a large palm tree in the center of the square (which is much more a rectangle) has lots of pavement cafes and restaurants. Nearby Place Aux Herbes, is the prettiest square with Notre Dame et Saint Castor Cathedral. Place Aux Herbes was the old market square. The third square is Place/Tour de l’Horloge, a 500 year old square with a clock tower rebuilt in the 18th C.
Jardins de la Fontaine – Although the gardens are 18th C they are built around the water source where ancient Nîmes was founded. There are regal balustrades, broad stairways, statues and marble vases, but also Roman monuments – the temple of Diane and Tour Magne are both in ‘semi’ ruin but are impressive nonetheless. When the Jardins de la Fontaine opened in 1745 it was one of Europe’s first public parks, and came about after attempts to channel the natural spring led to the discovery of the temple. On the top of the hill is the 36-meter-tall Tour Magne with 140 steps to the top. Tour Magne dates to 15 BC and was once part of the city's ancient ramparts. The street leading from just past Maison Carree to the park is the Quai de la Fontaine. The canal flows from the spring below Les Jardins de la Fontaine and forms a lovely canal in the center of a plane tree lined street with several small bridges over it.
Despite being in theLanguedoc-Roussillon region (Marseille is in Provence), Nimes, population 148,000, is only a one-hour train ride away. If it weren’t for the Roman monuments (and they ARE outstanding and reason enough to go) Nimes would just be another medium sized city. It’s well kept, there are several parks, lots of pedestrianized shopping streets and a few nice squares. The street leading from the train station to the arena is itself almost a park with lots of trees and benches. There are sycamore trees, cicadas – you know you are in Provence - but the buildings in Nimes are kind of ‘hum’, and it just doesn’t have much character.
Arènes (Amphitheater) - 1st C AD. Could seat 24,000 spectators, It is 20th in size but supposedly #1 in state of preservation of all the existing Roman amphitheaters. (Nimes 133x101, Pula 132x105, Arles 136x 109, Rome 189x156, Verona 152x123). The Amphitheater was transformed into a fortress in the 5th C and then a knight's castle during the Middle Ages. Now restored to its original purpose – which of course means modern seating and staging that does detract from the picture. Still it is pretty amazing how large and complete it is.
Maison Carree - one of few, fully preserved classical Roman temples remaining in the world. 1st C BC. Although there are modern buildings surrounding it, there is enough space left around it that the building can be appreciated. It inspired builders of La Madeleine in Paris, and Thomas Jefferson’s Virginia Capitol building. The interior however has not been restored, it houses a theatre showing a video on the history of Nimes, every half hour.
Strolling through town the first square you come to is Place du Marché, which features two figures from the Nîmes coat of arms: a crocodile and a palm tree symbolizing the Emperor August’ defeat of his arch rival Marc Antony and his lover Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt. The crocodile sits in the middle of a fountain and there is a large palm tree in the center of the square (which is much more a rectangle) has lots of pavement cafes and restaurants. Nearby Place Aux Herbes, is the prettiest square with Notre Dame et Saint Castor Cathedral. Place Aux Herbes was the old market square. The third square is Place/Tour de l’Horloge, a 500 year old square with a clock tower rebuilt in the 18th C.
Jardins de la Fontaine – Although the gardens are 18th C they are built around the water source where ancient Nîmes was founded. There are regal balustrades, broad stairways, statues and marble vases, but also Roman monuments – the temple of Diane and Tour Magne are both in ‘semi’ ruin but are impressive nonetheless. When the Jardins de la Fontaine opened in 1745 it was one of Europe’s first public parks, and came about after attempts to channel the natural spring led to the discovery of the temple. On the top of the hill is the 36-meter-tall Tour Magne with 140 steps to the top. Tour Magne dates to 15 BC and was once part of the city's ancient ramparts. The street leading from just past Maison Carree to the park is the Quai de la Fontaine. The canal flows from the spring below Les Jardins de la Fontaine and forms a lovely canal in the center of a plane tree lined street with several small bridges over it.
Oct 27th, 2019, 04:13 AM
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dijon
Dijon gare is not as impressive as Marseille, but it’s modern, clean and was reasonably cool. Less than ten minute walk to the pedestrianized center of the old town. My hotel, City Loft Apartments, was the best deal of the whole trip. The ‘apartment’ is quite large with comfy bed, couch, dining table with four chairs, an armoire, coffee table, kitchenette and a VIEW! of half-timbered houses. €71/night. I got there a few minutes before the desk opened for check-in and while waiting in the lobby eavesdropped on a conversation (in English obviously) of an American, a Mexican and a Frenchman. They were all discussing whose president was the worst (Trump won but just barely).
DIJON is the most gorgeous, most French city I’ve ever seen. Perfect size – most of it pedestrianized, mixture of gorgeous medieval half-timbered houses and elaborate French Renaissance facades, almost every street and square is impeccable. Despite it being 97 degrees and blindingly sunny I just had to get out to explore. I kept thinking OMG to myself, this place is so French, so beautiful. Not quite like a movie set, but a real town that looks like this. Around every corner more beautiful streets. So I got the owl tour book from the TI and just wandered, not really following it but managing to hit most of the main points.
Just off the main pedestrian street, Rue de la Liberte, is the most atmospheric square, Place Francois Rude, a strangely shaped charming square, with timber-framed houses, an old fashioned carousel, and a fountain with the figure of a wine-grower treading the grapes. Leading off from here is Rue des Forges, a narrow shopping street with several exquisite houses. This leads to Place de Notre Dame with the back of the Palais du Duc which houses the TI and on the other side the cathedral, Notre Dame. I followed this around to the back where the owl statue is, and from there Rue de la Chouette ( Owl Street) to an area of even more impressive half timbered houses. Around the corner is Rue Verrerie which is the antiques dealers quarter, typical of the middle ages even better buildings. It just kept getting better and better. I finally ended up at the centerpiece of old Dijon, Place de la Liberation – huge square with pavement fountains, beautiful buildings including the incredibly impressive Palais des Duc et Des Etats de Bourgogne - originally built in 1366, reconstructed in the 17th C by Mansart, the Versailles architect, finished in the 19th C. Capped with an elaborate tile roof, the complex is arranged around a trio of courtyards.
Besides just wandering around Dijon several times enjoying how lovely the city is, I visited three museums and two churches.
Couvent Des Bernadines – Musee de la View Bourguignonne (Museum of Burguandian Life) – a collection of rural ethnography (costumes, furniture, household items) of daily life from the 18th-20th century. Plus creations of 11 shops that used to be in Dijon – pharmacy, hat shop, grocery, clockmaker, etc. Very interesting. The cloister of the convent is austere but nice. The archaeology museum around the corner is also in an old abbey. The lowest level had Roman findings – none were in excellent condition but for a free museum of this size they were still pretty good. The next level was full of graceful columns and arches, the top level had displays on evolution – all in French but if you were familiar with the material you could get the idea.
Catheral St Benigne is a fairly typical average size catholic church made nicer by sun coming through stained glass and music – recorded but lovely female religious music. The highlight (the only thing that had an admission fee, €2, was the circular crypt.
Musee des Beaux Arts – also free – pretty decent art museum for a city this size. Mostly French artists I’ve never heard of, none of the ‘major’ works but a nice variety of, some of which I liked and it is housed in one of the best preserved medieval palaces in France. Some of the rooms have been done over and look like generic museum rooms, but a few are preserved as palace rooms. There are middle ages and Renaissance works plus contemporary pieces all kind of jumbled together which was actually more interesting than confusing. The tombs are the most well known.
Dijon is a beautiful little city – just large enough that you don’t get bored in an hour, small enough to know your way around the center easily. Even with visiting the three museums, two churches and crypt, a bit over 24 hours is enough. Would make a great base to do day trips from though.
A rather hot end to a great trip. When originally planning this trip we were going to fly home from Lyon (which my husband was still able to do) but then Aer Lingus changed their schedule so, rather than have a 20 hour layover in Dublin, I decided to take the train to Paris and fly home from there. I’ve been to Paris many times but figured with about 24 hours I’d have a nice stroll around my favorite bits and a nice dinner. Turned out this was the day Paris hit their all time record for hottest day - 108.6F/42.6C! So my ‘stroll’ became a search for an air conditioned restaurant. But it made a good story to say I experienced that heat wave. (It had been over 100 in Dijon the two previous days, though that didn’t seem that bad).
Dijon gare is not as impressive as Marseille, but it’s modern, clean and was reasonably cool. Less than ten minute walk to the pedestrianized center of the old town. My hotel, City Loft Apartments, was the best deal of the whole trip. The ‘apartment’ is quite large with comfy bed, couch, dining table with four chairs, an armoire, coffee table, kitchenette and a VIEW! of half-timbered houses. €71/night. I got there a few minutes before the desk opened for check-in and while waiting in the lobby eavesdropped on a conversation (in English obviously) of an American, a Mexican and a Frenchman. They were all discussing whose president was the worst (Trump won but just barely).
DIJON is the most gorgeous, most French city I’ve ever seen. Perfect size – most of it pedestrianized, mixture of gorgeous medieval half-timbered houses and elaborate French Renaissance facades, almost every street and square is impeccable. Despite it being 97 degrees and blindingly sunny I just had to get out to explore. I kept thinking OMG to myself, this place is so French, so beautiful. Not quite like a movie set, but a real town that looks like this. Around every corner more beautiful streets. So I got the owl tour book from the TI and just wandered, not really following it but managing to hit most of the main points.
Just off the main pedestrian street, Rue de la Liberte, is the most atmospheric square, Place Francois Rude, a strangely shaped charming square, with timber-framed houses, an old fashioned carousel, and a fountain with the figure of a wine-grower treading the grapes. Leading off from here is Rue des Forges, a narrow shopping street with several exquisite houses. This leads to Place de Notre Dame with the back of the Palais du Duc which houses the TI and on the other side the cathedral, Notre Dame. I followed this around to the back where the owl statue is, and from there Rue de la Chouette ( Owl Street) to an area of even more impressive half timbered houses. Around the corner is Rue Verrerie which is the antiques dealers quarter, typical of the middle ages even better buildings. It just kept getting better and better. I finally ended up at the centerpiece of old Dijon, Place de la Liberation – huge square with pavement fountains, beautiful buildings including the incredibly impressive Palais des Duc et Des Etats de Bourgogne - originally built in 1366, reconstructed in the 17th C by Mansart, the Versailles architect, finished in the 19th C. Capped with an elaborate tile roof, the complex is arranged around a trio of courtyards.
Besides just wandering around Dijon several times enjoying how lovely the city is, I visited three museums and two churches.
Couvent Des Bernadines – Musee de la View Bourguignonne (Museum of Burguandian Life) – a collection of rural ethnography (costumes, furniture, household items) of daily life from the 18th-20th century. Plus creations of 11 shops that used to be in Dijon – pharmacy, hat shop, grocery, clockmaker, etc. Very interesting. The cloister of the convent is austere but nice. The archaeology museum around the corner is also in an old abbey. The lowest level had Roman findings – none were in excellent condition but for a free museum of this size they were still pretty good. The next level was full of graceful columns and arches, the top level had displays on evolution – all in French but if you were familiar with the material you could get the idea.
Catheral St Benigne is a fairly typical average size catholic church made nicer by sun coming through stained glass and music – recorded but lovely female religious music. The highlight (the only thing that had an admission fee, €2, was the circular crypt.
Musee des Beaux Arts – also free – pretty decent art museum for a city this size. Mostly French artists I’ve never heard of, none of the ‘major’ works but a nice variety of, some of which I liked and it is housed in one of the best preserved medieval palaces in France. Some of the rooms have been done over and look like generic museum rooms, but a few are preserved as palace rooms. There are middle ages and Renaissance works plus contemporary pieces all kind of jumbled together which was actually more interesting than confusing. The tombs are the most well known.
Dijon is a beautiful little city – just large enough that you don’t get bored in an hour, small enough to know your way around the center easily. Even with visiting the three museums, two churches and crypt, a bit over 24 hours is enough. Would make a great base to do day trips from though.
A rather hot end to a great trip. When originally planning this trip we were going to fly home from Lyon (which my husband was still able to do) but then Aer Lingus changed their schedule so, rather than have a 20 hour layover in Dublin, I decided to take the train to Paris and fly home from there. I’ve been to Paris many times but figured with about 24 hours I’d have a nice stroll around my favorite bits and a nice dinner. Turned out this was the day Paris hit their all time record for hottest day - 108.6F/42.6C! So my ‘stroll’ became a search for an air conditioned restaurant. But it made a good story to say I experienced that heat wave. (It had been over 100 in Dijon the two previous days, though that didn’t seem that bad).
Jan 22nd, 2023, 11:26 AM
#28
All of these places are worth visiting, but I will particulrly toot my horn for Marseille.
The calanques of Marseille | Any Port in a Storm (proboards.com)
The "Panier" district of Marseille | Any Port in a Storm (proboards.com)
Marseille 2021 odds and ends | Any Port in a Storm (proboards.com)
The calanques of Marseille | Any Port in a Storm (proboards.com)
The "Panier" district of Marseille | Any Port in a Storm (proboards.com)
Marseille 2021 odds and ends | Any Port in a Storm (proboards.com)
Jan 22nd, 2023, 06:21 PM
#29
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries...ry?id=36009992
She generously shared her photos and impressions of the places she visited, always transparent about her particular interests and why they might not be relevant to everyone. Although I never met her in "real life," I liked her. May she rest in peace.
Jan 23rd, 2023, 03:03 PM
#30
I was strangely shocked to see this thread resurrected. A Fodor's poster PM'd me a couple months ago with the sad news that isabel had died.
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries...ry?id=36009992
She generously shared her photos and impressions of the places she visited, always transparent about her particular interests and why they might not be relevant to everyone. Although I never met her in "real life," I liked her. May she rest in peace.
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries...ry?id=36009992
She generously shared her photos and impressions of the places she visited, always transparent about her particular interests and why they might not be relevant to everyone. Although I never met her in "real life," I liked her. May she rest in peace.
Her notice paints a picture of a talented and dedicated woman whose loss will be felt by many and whose photos gave great joy to those lucky enough to see them.
Last edited by sugarmaple; Jan 23rd, 2023 at 03:05 PM.
Jun 22nd, 2023, 09:12 AM
#31
I was strangely shocked to see this thread resurrected. A Fodor's poster PM'd me a couple months ago with the sad news that isabel had died.
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries...ry?id=36009992
She generously shared her photos and impressions of the places she visited, always transparent about her particular interests and why they might not be relevant to everyone. Although I never met her in "real life," I liked her. May she rest in peace.
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries...ry?id=36009992
She generously shared her photos and impressions of the places she visited, always transparent about her particular interests and why they might not be relevant to everyone. Although I never met her in "real life," I liked her. May she rest in peace.
May she be rest in peace.
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mohun
Europe
12
Mar 14th, 2009 02:10 PM
