But I'll need railpass for Germany, where I"ll be for totally three weeks. So I'll check the Rick Steves site to find out the pass that works best for me>

Well there is only the German Railpass - from 3 days to 10 days and valid over a one-month period. IMO this pass, if traveling more than three lengthy trips is a real bargain - you can hop on any train anytime (with sole exception of Thalys trains Cologne to Belgium/Paris and ICE Sprinters, which few tourists will ever encounter. Note that Rick Steves is one of the few agents still charging a mailing fee on top of the pass price - $18 i believe - or at least last time i checked. Pass prices must be the same thru any agent but mailing/handling fees can be tacked on.

am glad to opted out of this wonderful railpass - Rick Steven IMO talks a lot of rubbish about passes specially East European one's- probably vested interest.
The trip Vienna, Salzburg, CK, Prague, back to vienna would cost you 80 euros if bought in advance from Austrian railways.>

IF BOUGHT IN ADVANCE is the key here - some folk like me like to just show up a stations and hop trains and for this a pass can be priceless - price is not the only factor to consider when contemplating a pass - now if you want to go the online route and lock yourself into a certain train ,etc fine - but many do not - myself included and this is what myopic 'railpasses are always a bad thing' folks like wobbers do not understand.

that said many folks sometimes only think railpass and do not consider the alternatives - cheapest is not always best but if it comports to your plans and you are comfy giving your credit card info, etc online to a foreign railway company then go for it.

I must miss the point of being flexible on a train - rather than saving money by an advance purchase.

Most but not all it seems acknowledge that point to point tickets can be less expensive for many tourists than rail passes.
An international traveler has probsably made a reservation on an aircraft, paid with a credit card- make fixed hotel reservations and guaranteed with a crdit card- and yet it is recommended to be flexible buy a rail pass and travel when you wish ?
This after a fixed arrival date - fixed hotel reservations-

and then miss out on the bargain train travel available at great discounts

Some examples - I live in Austria- use some examples from here but many such good prices exist from other countries.

Vienna - Munich 29 euro

Vienna - Frankfurt 29-39 euro.

To Frankfurt - overnight compartment for 2 at 69 euro each

Vienna- Budapest 19 euro.

Comfortable giving credit card info to a " foreign railway country " ?
Most have already given it to an airline or 2, to various hotels
Probably use it in stores and restaurants -
If this is a fear - do not travel.

molker - there is no disputing that advance lock yourself in fares are a great deal and usually when talking about railpasses i do mention those - especially involving Germany where the Sparpreise (name?) fares are often available for 29 or 39 euros - if you want to lock yourself in - and some tourists like myself just like to get up and go to the train station and hop on the next train - and for full fare tickets in Germany just a few train rides makes the German Railpass a great deal. It is the choice of the consusmer - you do a great service informing folks about the cheapest and yes restrictive options - and i mention passes for those who want flexibility. If i lived in Austria and did the odd trip to say Munich or Frankfurt i would certainly do the 29 euro fares - if that was my only train journey - but others also like me may have a flexible itinerary and wish to keep it flexible - if i'm in the Austrian Alps and it's rainy i may re-route my itinerary elsewhere, etc.

And for say the Germany-Austria railpass you get for $321 5 days of unlimited travel - calendar midnight to midnight in a 2-month period - flexipass - that is $65 a day - or in euros what about 46 euros - really to a tourist not that much more than pegging yourself into say a 39 euro fare

and the longer the pass the better per day - on the Austria-Germany pass the 6th day is only $34 p.p. more than the 5-day pass or 25 euros a day - for fully flexible hop on anytime travel in all of Germany and Austria - from the Danish border to the Hungarian border.

An 8-day Ger-Aus pass would be about $390 p.p. (Saverpass for two people traveling togther) or per day p.p. about $50 or about 37 euros a day - so it depends on how long the pass is and what type of train trips you are doing but to say a pass is always a waste of money is i think misinformation

Now in the OP's case if they did the advance discounted then it would be cheaper but if they wanted fully flexible at will boarding it may not be.

So it depends what the traveler wants as well.

And i would be comfortable giving my credit card to the Austrian or German railways but, again i am putting myself in the role of a novice tourist, i know some folks would not if they did not have to - but granted they should be comfy with that.

I must miss the point of being flexible on a train - rather than saving money by an advance purchase>

and you say i don't have a clue!

wobbers
Rick Steven IMO talks a lot of rubbish about passes specially East European one's- probably vested interest.
The trip Vienna, Salzburg, CK, Prague, back to vienna would cost you 80 euros if bought in advance from Austrian railways.
How does that stack up with the pass -ehh it does not.>

Well IF bought in advance is the key - you are comparing apples and oranges IMO - the pass can be used on any train anytime - so to be fair you should compare it to regular fully flexible tickets - so what would be the fare for tickets bought at the station on the day of travel - this is what the pass offers?

You say i do not have a clue - well if you think that some travelers at least do not desire such flexibility then i'd say you have no clue - and some just do not want to have to bother buying tickets at ticket windows either and enjoy just hopping on any train anytime, like is possible in Austria i believe.

So compare apples to apples not to oranges IMO

It is unfortunate that some do not really read some postings here and when some seem ( it seems many ) to not agree with their assertions seem to make a personal crusade of trying to justify their position with volumes.
Most travelers do not have the luxury of long vacations and they wish to do and make the needed reservations- whether , plane, train hotel etc. They do not go with the idea of just jumping on a train to go somewhere - without hotel arrangements or a reason to visit the destination. this may be OK for a very few with time and nothing else to do - but this is not the normal traveler today.

Yes, point to point tickets are most often best for for normal vacationer. Unfortunately some conveniently ignore the wording of my above comments and seem to think that means always.

Here they call it a Sparschiene ticket - great value for the international traveler.
19- 39 euro to many destinations.
I can go Vienna - Prague for 19 euro .
Yes you must buy in advance for a specific train, but most vacationers have already made fixed plans for the trip including hotel reservations.
the propaganda for these tickets say kids undr 15 travel free with parents under this program - never used it but many such programs have this feature.

Many also are not aware that here in Austria., I can go to a train station purchase a ticket on the day of travel for 28 euro and ride on regional trains for a full day within Austria - after 9 :00 weekdays - anytime on weekends and holidays -. the ticket is for 2- 5 people . I buy it at a ticket machine or at a ticket window takes 30 seconds
Any tourist can do the same.

Cheaper than a pass .

Most german states have such special plans also.
An example is the Bayern Ticket - tavel for 2-5 - all day for less than 30 euro - again good after 9 weekdays all hours weekends.

Great for trsvel anywhere in Bavaria- this includes Salzburg , Ludwig castles etc.

A little looking and one over 65 or under 26 can buy a special discount card in Austria for train travel anytime, any train this good for one year costs about 28 euro and offers 50 5 dicount on trains within Austria 25 5 discout on international regular tickets .
You simply make a 2 minute application - discounts begin immediately - you simply buy the discounted ticket and go. No pre purchase needed , no special train- you just buy and go.

The above just a few examples no one seems to mention for great savings-








Day trip from Munich to Salzburg - great value.

my point - a little looking and you find much better value for your money than most passes.
Personally , I could write much more but do not have time for such things.

Most travelers today need to receive the best value for their money.

molker--

You mention the "ticket on the day of travel for 28 euro [to] ride on regional trains for a full day within Austria - after 9 :00 weekdays - anytime on weekends and holidays -. the ticket is for 2- 5 people."

Does this ticket have a particular name?

Do I unerstand correctly? My husband and I could do a daytrip by train from Vienna to Salzburg for a cost of 28 euro for the two os us? or 28 euro X 2?

Durimg our time in Vienna in September, I was thinking we might do a (cruise/train) daytrip to Melk Abbey and another train journey to Salzburg. Seems a pass or other plan for transpostation only within Vienna is what I need to consider.

Thanks!

Great idea to go to Melk Abbey -

Have a look at the following site


www.ddsg-blue-danube.at

under sightseeing cruises -


you will find varied offers.

A good value at less than 47 euro is the Combination ticket

of train from Vienna to Melk- Admission to the Abbey - a boat cruise on the Danube from Melk to Krems - then the train back to Vienna from Krems.
This makes a nice and varied day tour .

Various othe combinations available depending on your intersts from a picnic , bike ride , wine tasting etc.

The scenery on the Danube boat tour is really good passing old villages, castles and wine gardens.

A tip - the train station is about 3 kilometers from the boat dock- some prefer to walk but this becomes a long waya after a full day.

A bus stop is just by the roadway outside the boat dock area for a trip to the station. ask at the information desk for timing - or a small sightseeing train runs at various hours for a small tour of the interesting city of Krems and it stops at the train station.
The train found just adjacent to the bost dock.

The 28 euro train ticket is called the Einfachraus ticket-
Yes 28 euro for 2- 5 travelers-
anywhere in Austria great for regional day trips
some restrictions -

weekdays travel only after 9:00
weekends anytime .
I believe it is good until 3:00 ? the next morning.

travel is by regional trains - thus the journey to Salzburg takes longer than the fast railjet for example ( this takes about 21/2 hours ) If time is an issue , it is better to take the fast trains to Salzburg from Viena

For travelers under no time constraints and looking for a bargain it can be useful.

Just to add as I see you travel in September- This is a great time for a day to Melk and the Danube-

Depending on the weather , the wine grape harvest will be in progress.
An extra special time in the area between Melk and Krems- the premier wine area of Austria.

Many places will serve the newly pressed results knownnas Sturm - this liked by many .
Perhaps you would wish to take the boat down the Danube and depart in the village of Durnstein. This is just 6- 7 kilometers before melk.
A beautiful village of very old homes 14-15th century , the castle ruins where King Richard was held for ransom in the 1100s with many places selling wine, sturm, grapes, schnapps, marmalade and good food.

The Church/ Stift celebrates its 600 th anniversary this year.
Durnstein has a small train station with a regional train taking you in 10 minutes directly to the Krems train station and then a quick transfer usually onthe same track or adjacent track to the waiting trin to Vienna. The schedules are co ordinated.
The train Durnstein- Krems not included in the combi ticket as mentioned above . I think the cost is about 2 euro- an automatic machine sells these on the train.- no condutor - just the driver. A fun trip through the vineyards.

www.duernstein.at


Have fun in Austria

My DH loves Sturm. For years, we traveled to Europe in May for the flowers and Spargel, but the last two trips have been in September -- for the Sturm! lol.

I fondly remember the grape harvests from our time in Vienna. We lived in Nussdorf and our flat backed up to several large vineyards. Whenever you'd go outside the city, you'd see the many tractors pulling wagons piled high with grapes. One of my husband's coworkers had a vineyard in Burgenland and he and some other friends helped during the harvest. A great time to be in the area!

It is unfortunate that some do not really read some postings here and when some seem ( it seems many ) to not agree with their assertions seem to make a personal crusade of trying to justify their position with volumes.>

"with volumes" that's a good one and i assume you are speaking of yourself, in this thread?"

Thanks, molker and bettyk, for your advice and comments.

Molker, I had already made note of the DDSG Blue Danube site. Perhaps I had seen your mention of it in a previous post? The combination ticket route seems a great way to spend a glorious autumn day!

And the vineyards--we'll definitely be interested. Durnstein sounds like a charming village with much to see and enjoy. Is Sturm quite fruity and not alcoholic? If it is just pressed, it has not had time to ferment? We'll have to give it a try if it's available.

We'll be in Austria for two weeks, with four days out for a short trip to Krakow (by air). I'm certain there would be plenty in Vienna to keep us happily occupied the entire time but I think Salzburg should be in our plans. With ten days in Vienna, would you suggest that we plan two or three days in Salzburg? or a very long day trip?

Sturm has some alcohol - can be 3-4% as it is in the first stage in fermentation after the pressing.
It can be red or white and usually has some cloudy look to it.
Normally sweet, fruity and easily drunk, many wish to have several mugs before finding that the body quickly absorbs this drink.

The main sights in the city of Salzburg can be seen in a day.
The old town portion of the city is compact and you can quickly walk from one place to another.
This possible by a day trip, but if you wish to see some of the lake district ( Mondsee, Wolfgangsee, Hallstatt ) more time is needed.
This up to the traveler and their wishes.

Personally I think a day in the country makes for a good change from city sightseeing
for some information for an area within 30- 45 minutes east of Salzburg - look to


www.wolfgangsee.at

Thank you, molker! I appreciate your description of Sturm and the added info on Salzburg.

Now that I'm beginning to see how our time in Austria can be blocked out, I'll get started on researching music and events scheduling as well as hotel reservations.

Durnstein has a small train station with a regional train taking you in 10 minutes directly to the Krems train station and then a quick transfer usually onthe same track or adjacent track to the waiting trin to Vienna.>

At this point, having come by boat from Melk to Durnstein, as wondrous IMO as molker says, we decided to chuck the train and walk to Krems and this proved to be a really sweet stroll - only a couple of miles and mainly thru vineyards - coming into Krems we passsed some famous distillery making some kind of booze but can't remember the name

anyway a really easy and nice walk - to the Krems train station, which i believe has trains to Vienna's Franz-Joseph station - but from Krems you can also take a train across the Danube to St Poltein and catch trains from there to the Westbahnhof if that suits you better.

anyway the day Melk - boat thru the Wachau Valley - Durnstein - Krems is a simply wonderful day out of Vienna - i enjoyed this more than anything in Vienna and there are lots of things in Vienna that i loved - including a visit to one of the fabled Heuringen (sp?) wine houses at Grinzing, on the edge of the Vienna Woods.

francoiselee- it seems there is a great debate about if rail passes are a good deal. When in Europe last summer we found the railpass in Germany to be a good deal (not so much in Italy). I don't like to book trains in advance because usually I have a day of travel and if I'm done with the city will leave in the morning or if there is more to do will leave in the evening. We also had an event where the train we wanted to take was 4 hours late, but a different one was leaving ontime in 30 minutes, so because of the railpass we could take the ontime train and saved 3 hours of waiting. However, for just a few short trips its probably not worth it, but for several long trips in Germany I bet it would be.

Living betweeen Krems and Dürnstein in the summer , I believe I know a little about it.

I would not recommend a walk from Dürnstein to Krems - this is not a couple of miles but probably 10-11 kilometers about 6 miles or more. The time taken to walk this can be better used elsewhere. To judge distance, the walk in Krems from the boat dock to the train station is 3-4 kilometers.
The train offers nice views of the vineyards and the Danube as you proceed on this route and is certainly very convenient. More importantly the schedules are co ordinated with the direct train to Vienna meaning no waiting time in Krems.
Take the train directly to Vienna not via St. Polten where you must make a change.- not only is the direct train normally faster , it requires no changes and is less expensive ( fares here are cluculated by distance traveled. The St. Polten train station was still in the process of a long renovation, the last time there, and may be less than great for the tourist convenience.