PalenQ

Paris however has recently combined I think arrondissements in the center - 1, 2 and 3 I think combined?

anyway anyplace in central Paris is safe as riots go - you should be much more worried about pickpockets in crowded places like metro stations - be conscious of that and you'll be fine. Always carry valuables in a secure money belt or pouch that goes under clothing - nothing of value in a day pack -I've found my pocket on my pack unzipped once -nothing of value in it.

prexypants

@frencharmoire thank u so much for the info.
We're more of a sight-"see-er" rather than "night-outer".

@suze: thanks! Would keep it in mind. We're thinking of a rental apartment or airbnb or anything of that sort, saves money on accomodation.

@palenQ yep, i've heard about these pickpockets in Paris. Insane. I'll keep in mind, thanks a lot!

thursdaysd

Before you consider an apartment in Paris, read this:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-in-paris.cfm

prexypants

@thursdaysd: oh i never knew about this topic in legal apartnebts or not. Thanks for sharing. I see.. perhaps a hotel is more apt in paris. But i suppose apartments in italy or barcelona shouls be ok?

thursdaysd

Apartments in Barcelona are OK if they are registered. There are issues there too.

OverIt

If I were you, I'd start in Paris (3 days), head to Barcelona (3 days), do the South of France (4 days), go to Venice (2 days) from the South of France, and end in Rome (4 days). This gives you some time to enjoy each place and travel.

I prefer trains - night trains, commuter trains, local trains, to get this all done but I last did this in 2005. I don't know what trains schedules are like now. Back in the day, I found booking my tickets individually from the local websites was more cost effective than doing a eurail pass or whatever.

In case you care, this is what we did in 2005 (our first trip). We were young (28), so maybe we did a little more than we should have. It was exhausting but exhilarating. We started and ended in Paris because we were flying with miles. It was harder to book in and out of different places back then. Now it's much easier!


Land in Paris. Two days, one night in Paris
(Night train to San Sebastian - 25 euro!!. Two days in San Sebastian)
Night train from SS to Barcelona. Three days in Barcelona.
Commuter rail to Banyuls in the South of France. One night there.
Night train from Banyuls to Nice. Two days in Eze.
Day trip to Monaco. Night train to Venice.
Day in Venice. Night train to Rome.
Four days and nights in Rome. Night train to Paris.
Two days in Paris.

OverIt

BTW, I wouldn't skip Venice! We were there from 7 AM to 11PM on a cold November day. Stored our stuff in the station and wandered around from dawn to way past dusk. We shivered all day but it was indeed magical.

prexypants

@overlt: thanks.
We are starting and ending in paris as well.
Our initial plan is to stay:
PARIS : 2 days
LUCERNE: 2 days (by train)
MILAN: 2 days (by train)
VENICE: 3 days (by train)
ROME: 2 days (by train)
BARCELONA: 2 days (by plane)
AMSTERDAM: 2 days (by plane)
PARIS: 2 days (by train)
Fly home

FuryFluffy

Sorry, that initial plan is not optimal. Too many destinations and too little of time. At first you said 3 places, then you cited 4 cities, now you have 7 destinations!!

2 days in culture-rich cities like Rome or Barcelona do not cut it. Deduce half a day from it for train time, and you'll have a tiny amount of time left.

Cut out at least 2 cities. I suggest cut out Amsterdam and even Barcelona.

thursdaysd

I thought you had two weeks? You need to count nights, not days. Two nights gets you one day. Print off a blank calendar (lots of free ones on the net) and lay this out, showing where you will sleep and putting in the time for travel.

I would skip Lucerne and Milan. Choose either Amsterdam or Barcelona. If you have not alread bought your plane tickets fly into one city and out of another - backtracking is a waste of time and money.

Since this is your first trip I recommend reading "Europe Through the Back Door" and Rough Guide's "First Time Europe".

OverIt

Where you stay in each city really should depend on your style of travel, how much you want to spend, and how you want to get around (public transport?) For a short stay, I sacrifice comfort for location because you don't want to spend your limited time getting from place to place.

I agree with the people who think you should skip Milan and Lucerne. Next trip. I also agree that don't backtrack if you haven't bought your ticket. It's a much better idea to spend four full days in

I haven't traveled in years, and I'm not a Europe expert by any stretch, but here's what I know:

In Paris, I have stayed in the 5th, the 6th, the 14th, and once way off in the middle of nowhere. For a first time visitor, the Latin Quarter would be very convenient, IMO, but I found Montparnasse to be lovely and residential (more slice of life).

In Barcelona, I have stayed at a hostel near the Ramblas, an apartment in Montjuic, the B-Hotel near Catalunya stop (IIRC), and near the train station. Of all of those, the B-Hotel was the most convenient actually since it was right by a good stop and across the street from the airport bus! The hotel near the central train station was actually not convenient at all (much to my surprise). The apartment in Montjuic was kind of shabby but nice because the area was quiet and residential.

Didn't bother overnighting in Venice - v. expensive. Spent one very long day there and that sufficed. Would have loved to have spent more time but I'm glad I saved our days for Rome.

In Rome, I stayed by the station, because I could afford it. It was fine for us, back then, but it was shared bathrooms and whatnot.

If they still publish "Europe by Rail" or a book like that, I would check it out. It will help you plan journeys that make sense.

StCirq

Your initial plan is still way too ambitious. If you follow that plan, your entire vacation will be spent in train stations and airports, which is really unpleasant when you could be out and enjoying new places. Cut it back to 3 stops and don't fly into an out of Paris. Get open-jaw tickets so you don't have to waste time and money backtracking. It may cost a small fraction more (though not always), but the money spent backtracking to Paris is wasted anyway.

You don't seem to have understood that 2 days in a place is actually 1 day, when you subtract the travel time. Travel time also adds significantly to the costs of a trip. So in sum you are paying double to see half.

I highly doubt Europe By Rail is published anymore, though I suppose it may be. Instead, familiarize yourself with www.seat61.com.

OverIt

I should add that, unless things have changed since I last was in Europe in 2010 (OMG - has it been that long?!) I completely agree with those who said to minimize flying between cities. It's expensive and it can take hours to get from the city centers to the airport (plus it's expensive). Then you have the stress of cancelled flights and delays.

You are young, you'll be back. Once I started traveling I always found reasons to go back

bilboburgler

All my comments are IMHO and will always be so, unless offering train/ferry timings etc. Always have and always will be. This is the internet, most things are IMHO.

1) franchamoire's advice on safety is spot on
2) PARIS : 2 days A
LUCERNE: 2 days (by train)
MILAN: 2 days (by train)
VENICE: 3 days (by train) A
ROME: 2 days (by train) A
BARCELONA: 2 days (by plane) A
AMSTERDAM: 2 days (by plane) A
PARIS: 2 days (by train)
is crazy, my advice is
a) put all the Paris days at the start or the end
b) book open jaw flights so you don't have to back track
Of the cities you have mentioned the ones with an "A" are ones that are top class.

That is not to say, "don't go" to Milan or Lucerne they are just not in the same league. Even the best bit about Lucerne is its position.

Venice for 3 days is about right, unless you want to use it to visit that area,e.g. Verona (shakespeare), Padua (shakespeare) etc All the other places have insufficent time attached so I would recommend you take the time from L and M and fit it to the other cities.

thursdaysd

"Didn't bother overnighting in Venice - v. expensive. Spent one very long day there and that sufficed. Would have loved to have spent more time but I'm glad I saved our days for Rome."

Couldn't disagree more. Venice is much nicer after the day trippers leave. Have been twice for five or six days each time and would be happy to go back. Although I do go in the off season when it's cheaper, and last time I slept in Sant' Elena.

While seat61.com is my go-to site for rail travel, "Europe By Rail" is still published - I have a copy of the latest edition. It is written by the editors of the magazine "Hidden Europe" (which a Fodorite introduced me to some time ago).

http://www.europebyrail.eu/

https://www.amazon.com/Europe-Rail-D...europe+by+rail

http://www.hiddeneurope.co.uk/

There is also a "Europe by Eurail", which I remember reading a while back and not finding very useful. The excellent "Rail Map of Europe" that used to be published by Thomas Cook also still exists, with a new publisher, as, I believe do the timetables.

PalenQ

I believe do the timetables.>

which are still printed but also online.

Dogeared

Prexypants, unless you are simply interested in ticking names of a list, your latest itinerary sucks. As noted already, you will spend next to no time actually in any of the places you list and a whole lot of your time simply moving from A to B to C.

You cannot count a day on which you travel as a day spent in a place. You don't spend it in the place you leave and you don't spend it in the place you move to.

One full day in Rome? Come on, are you serious? I doubt you could find anyone who would think that made any sense at all.

prexypants

still mapping out my final places to go.
thanks for the info guys!
would love to hear more suggestions from you

OverIt

Thursdaysd, I am amused that you disagree with my factual statement that I did not bother overnighting in Venice ten years ago.

thursdaysd

Overlt - I would have thought it obvious that I was not disagreeing with the fact that you did not overnight, I was disagreeing with the idea that it was a good plan. IMO, of course.