2 teens in London - Itinerary?
 

I'm looking at letting my daughter and her BFF travel to London at the end of May. One will have just turned 17 and the other will have just turned 18 a week before the trip.

They have traveled domestically together and have traveled domestically alone. Neither has been overseas.

They would stay with relatives in the Greenwich area. They would be on their own because the relatives work all day. They will take them out and about on the weekend, though.

I'm looking for itinerary suggestions for two girls that can't find their way out of a paper bag! lol That might be an exaggeration but I fear they will go all the way and only see three things because they spent most days lost and wandering aimlessly.

I've been told they will need a travel card for zones 1 -6. Will this be all they need to get to all the touristy stuff? It was suggested that they plan on going to Paris for a day. Good idea?

Open to any and all advice. Having never been myself, I'm not much help.

What are their interests? Shopping? Museums? Do they like looking at old buildings or do they prefer looking at cute young men? Find a guidebook for London (I'm sure the library has at least one) and let the girls do some research on their own.

Sightseeing can be really expensive or very cheap, depending on what they want to see. What is their daily budget? You said they would be staying with relatives, so I assume they'll get at least dinner there, but they're unlikely to want to go back to the relatives' place for lunch if they're looking at something on the other side of town, so you'll have to include lunch money in their budget.

Remind them that all the souvenirs or clothes they buy will have to be dragged all the way home. Or possibly sent home by post, but that's expensive.

I assume they speak english as their primary language. If they get lost they can always ask someone for help. It will be a nice learning experience.

Paris means an entirely different language and may not be worth it for a single day. They're young enough that there is time for more trips in the future.

You are probably going to get lots of people saying that girls that age shouldn't be allowed to travel alone etc etc...

But I say Bravo! to you. My children have all travelled alone from a fairly young age and it has been so good for them.

I think the big thing is with your daughter and her friend is that they are staying with relatives so they have a safe place to get back to at the end of each day, and they will hopefully get plenty of guidance from said relatives about London, where to go, which tube lines, and stuff like that.

BUT, and it a BIG but, if they are as you say incapable of getting out of a paper bag, then I'd not consider a day trip to Paris for them. Way too confusing. Let them find out about London and how to get around a strange city on their own. There's plenty for them to see and do in London, and no need to wander aimlessly. Get them a good guidebook, let them choose which one they like, that's important because if they don't like the look of it they won't use it.

Greenwich is itself a nice part of London, but it's a fair way out. I'm not which zone it's in, but there's lots of time to look all that up. Hopefully someone will be able to tell you whether a zone 1-6 travelcard or 2-1 railcard will be the best option.

But kudos to you for considering this. It's my belief that one should give children 'roots to grow and wings to fly'. Letting them travel alone reinforces your belief and trust in your child, and only does them good. We in England are accustomed to letting our youngsters go at 18 (or younger) on their 'gap year' to travel alone around SE Asia, India and other far-flung places. Best way for them to grow up and become responsible adults IMHO.

Good luck with this, but because your two will be staying with relatives, then I really don't think you have much to worry about. I'll even agree to be an extra UK contact point in case of emergency if it makes you feel more comfortable about letting them come! I have a 22yo daughter living and working in London, and my 19yo son will be going to Greenwich University in September.

All the best!

Thanks for the response. They definitely want to see all the touristy spots on this trip. They love history, museums, and old buildings. Well, they love cute guys too but that isn't the purpose of this trip. ;-)

No budget yet because we are still trying to figure things out. While they will peruse some of the bigger stores, they don't intend on spending money there. They are also not souvenir type people.

There is a grocery store with a cafe right down the street from where they are staying. I'm thinking they will probably hit that each morning and have some bagels for breakfast. Lunch will definitely be while they are out and about. They aren't fast food eaters with the exception of Subway but will likely just grab a sandwich along the way. Dinner will probably be a combo of eating out and eating in but again it will be a quick bite. They are not culinary experts and a nice sit down meal is the last thing they care about.

I have multiple books on hold at the library so they can get a feel for what they want to do but they are open to seeing anything since they have never been.

I didn't think about the language barrier in Paris.

Julia, Thanks for the response and the offer. How nice! They will be staying with my nephew and his wife who is native to England. Thankfully, her whole family is there and my daughter has meet them when they lived in the states for three years so the girls will have plenty of emergency contacts.

I've enjoyed allowing my daughter to travel on her own (or with a friend) over the years but I find I don't sleep as well as I used to. lol

I agree with you about Paris.

A travelcard for zones 1-6 will cover the entire Tube system - unless I'm mistaken, that is way more than they will need. The Greenwich tube stop and others nearby are in zone 2, and just about everything touristy the girls will want to do is in zone 1, so I'd just check with your nephew and confirm how far out his home is. A travelcard is a great idea, but they likely don't need to spend the money on all six zones.

I'm of two minds on the Paris trip. On the one hand, if they really are as susceptible to getting lost as you imply, it could be a bit crazy for them. On the other hand, being forced to figure out all the logistics could be a great learning experience. I traveled through Europe with friends at 19 and gained a lot of independence from doing things like that. How long will their trip be total? Since they won't be spending a dime on lodging and it sounds like food won't be a major expense, an overnight in Paris (rather than a day trip) might be a great idea. It gives them a little more time in the city, and eases the pressure a bit of trying to cram Paris into a day *and* make it back to Gare du Nord in time for a late train. I wouldn't worry too much about the language barrier. Many, many Parisians speak English, especially those in service capacities, though learning a few French phrases would be common courtesy.

Do either of the girls have a cell phone which will work internationally? If so, they definitely need to be aware of the additional costs for international plans. If not, you can get inexpensive unlocked ones either on eBay or once they get to the UK. UK calling plans aren't mostly contract-based like those in the States, so they can pick up a cheap phone and buy some minutes so they can call and text you and your nephew. It's also very cheap on those plans to call internationally (at least compared to US prices), so even if they got into some trouble in Paris, they could call your nephew.

Greenwich is on the boundary of zones 2 and 3. If it's what I (rather than estate agents) understand as Greenwich, they won't need more than zones 1 and 2. It's not some remote suburb, but London is a very spread-out city, so it will still take them at least 30 minutes or so to get to most of the places they'll want to visit.

The ins and outs of pay-as-you-go vs. travelcards (whether on Oyster or on paper from a national rail station) have been argued out ad nauseam on this board, but if they're going to stay with relatives, then I'd suggesting taking their advice about what best suits their particular location (some parts of Greenwich are better served by national rail suburban services than the TfL tube/DLR, which may affect the options). Come to that, give them www.tfl.gov.uk, www.daysoutguide.co.uk, www.visitlondon.com/ and www.timeout.com/london to play with, and let them start making some plans for themselves.

I agree that if you really are worried about their ability to find their way around, it would be better to leave Paris until they're a bit more travel-wise.

I think they will probably skip Paris. Between the language barrier, their lack of directionality, and the cost, they will have to "settle" for a week in London.

If I am not mistaken, the travel zone card covered getting around in the area they are staying and getting to and from the airport. Maybe I am wrong on that, though.

The phones won't be a problem, thankfully.

Greenwich is a huge borough and some areas are in zone 4. The airport (heathrow?) is in zone 6. It will definitely save you some money if you can tell us what transit station they are closest to. There is no point in spending extra money on a 1-6 if you just need it to get to the airport (just pay the extra for that journey. Probably 95% of what they want to see is in zone 1-2.

Exactly what jamikins said - if your nephew is in zone 3, for example, just have them buy a travelcard for zones 1-3 and add a little pay-as-you-go (PAYG) credit for the trips to and from Heathrow. It'll just be a few pounds for the round trip. No need to buy a whole zone 6 travelcard just for that. One Oyster card will handle the travelcard + extra credit; they can buy one either at the ticket machines or at the ticket windows.

Just FYI, if they end up flying into Gatwick instead of Heathrow, the Tube doesn't go there (they'll have to take the train, most likely, but your nephew will be a good source of advice on the best option to his house).

Actually, for getting to Greenwich, Gatwick is the most convenient airport: train to London Bridge, and suburban train from there.

Thought I would update this thread. The girls are heading to London in June! They will have 9 full days for touring.

They will be staying in Greenwich and will be near the Westcombe Park station. They are flying into Gatwick.

Not sure how to help them with an itinerary. They have a sheet of paper filled with all the things they want to do. They have to start narrowing it down and figuring out what is doable time wise and money wise. After looking at the tube system, I'm thinking they will spend their first day lost! lol

Any advice or suggestions on anything to prepare for this trip would be appreciated.

Just seeing this thread.
They are gong to have a fantastic time!! As i said on another thread (I think you wrote on it, Okwdvc?) ) they aregoing to London at a time when there will be Union Jacks on all the light poles and stores, for The Queens's Jubilee celebration. If there the first weekend of June--a 4 day public holiday in UK--there will be lots going on, including a 1,000 ship regatta on the Thames.

I'll there with my two grandsons ("cute guys" ) but a couple yrs younger than the girls (-:

One of my fav tour books is "The Little Black Book of London." It is small, and lightweight, and concise, doesn't "lool like" a tour book, but is filled with info and great ideas for touring, including lesser-known places, divided by neighborhoods. There is a map in each section with marked highlights. Check it out on Amazon. It's a good way for them to work on their list, and easily carry for their excursions.

Greenwich is (or was) a lovely town to get a feel for what High Streets all used to look like. I wast last there with my then teenaged daughter in 2005, so it probably changed, but there were some cool shops mixed in with the older style cafes (There's a famous one there with steak pies, etc) And they can have the fun of taking the boat down to Westminster .

They are soooo going to love it!! First time in London (in the Pleistocene era) i was 19 and ten full days wasn't enough! Good for you. Mom, for encouraging this trip!!!!!

Westcombe Park is a train station so they will likely be taking trains to London Bridge most days to transfer to the tube system.

As they plan, maybe you could help them to make their plans manageable (and help them get lost less) by looking at the list of things they want to do while also looking at a map of London that includes tube stops. That way they can plan what to do according to where it is and not do a lot of backtracking. Also, I try (though I often fail!) only to do two things a day: one in the morning and one in the afternoon. That way there's time just to wander. But I'm sure with their youth they have more energy to go a bunch of places than I do!

Thanks again! They will miss the Jubilee since they will be there at the end of the month. Bummer!

I did suggest they only plan two things a day. I think that would give them plenty of things to see without rushing, enough time to walk around and enjoy the atmosphere, and save me some money!

Yes, my sister said they would take the train from Westcombe to London Bridge and head out from there. She said she gets a travel card for zones 1-6 but she always flies into Heathrow not Gatwick.

I would leave the planning to them. If they're old enough to go in the first place, they're old enough to figure out what to do each day and how to do it. Yes, they might get lost on the tube. Yes, they might miss some things on their list. Yes, they might waste a bit of money. It's all part of growing up and learning. There will be no language barrier, London is a safe city, and they have family to call on for help if needed. They're going to be perfectly fine. Let them plan it on their own.

Apres,
Don't worry, I won't take over. I enjoy reading about the things to do and making suggestions. They will plan what they want to do. They are pretty independent and they'll figure it out.

Westcombe Parks is in zone 3 so they'll need zone 1-3 travelcards --and those will get them the 2for1 discounts from Days Out. http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/

(Hopefully your sister doesn't buy a zone 1-6 travel card for her entire stay. Maybe just for the day(s) she travels to/from Heathrow. Otherwise she is spending too much.)

Sorry, okwdvc, I didn't mean to come across so harshly. They'll have a fantastic time no matter what, and it really is great that you're letting your daughter go out on this adventure.

No worries, Apres. I didn't take it that way! I don't want to plan it all for them but we are enjoying looking at all the options together. I am one jealous mom!

Janisj, I will have to ask my sister. She travels extensively throughout Europe so she may be using this for other areas. I would assume she knows what she is doing but since I am the smarter sister, maybe she doesn't! LOL j/k

Agree with Janisj, what they need is a single ticket from Gatwick to London Bridge and then they need to go to the ticket booth and buy a 7 day zone 1-3 travel pass.

A zone 1-6 is ALOT more expensive and most everything they want to see will be in zone 1-2. If they do want to see something in zone 4-6 then they can just pay for the extra at the ticket booth. No point in wasting ALOT on a zone 1-6 and rarely use the zone 4-6 part. Heathrow is in zone 6, but Gatwick is not.

For example:

7 day zone 1-3 = £34.20 each
7 day zone 1-6 = £53.40 each

You can even tell them to ask at Gatwick for a 7 day card for zone 1-3 and an extension to get them into London. That will be the cheapest, but I am not sure if the ticket booth at Gatwick sells London travel cards for zone 1-3.

For the additional days they can buy a 1 day travel card for zone 1-3 for £10.60 a day or £7.70 a day if they leave after 9:30

Prices are here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

Jamikins, thanks! That is great info. I think a 7 day will be enough anyway because it sounds like they will be doing some stuff with my nephew and family on the weekend that won't require passes. Like you said, if they don't have enough, they can always buy another day.

Is it worth buying the pass from a rail station ticket office to get the 2 for 1 offers:


If you purchase a Travelcard from a railway station, (not DLR or London Underground) you qualify for a wide range of 2 for 1 offers including many of the main tourist attractions in London. Offers include 2 for 1 admission to the Tower of London, St Paul's Cathedral and London Zoo for example.

It's not a "pass" they would need. It's the same "travel card" they need, no matter how it's actually "packaged."
They need a "card" to use the Tube. There are 4 ways this is possible, I think:
1.A PLASTIC Oyster card on which some amount of cash is deposited. This is referred to as PAYG (pay as you go) and can be "topped up" at numerous places. The fares per day on this type of device are "capped" at a maximum fare per day.
2. A PLASTIC Oyster card on which a 7-day-travel-card-credit is deposited. I think if you jump through all the hoops and math, there is some way that using this method might come out a tad cheaper than traveling basically the same amounts on same routes as using PAYG, but not much.
3.A PAPER 7-day-travel card--purchased only at stations that are also RAIL stations. This costs the same amount as if you "load" it on an Oyster card. (except there is a refundable deposit required for purchase of Oyster card)
4.1-day-travel-cards which are paper like the above.

Advantages to Oyster PAYG--You are only charged for what you use. Oyster cards can be kept and used on future travel. They are not consecutive so if you don't travel, no charge. You are not limited to knowing ahead of time what zones or what times you will travel.

Disadvantages to Oyster PAYG--You can't use them for 2for1 discounts. The "cap" on a day's fare might be a little more than the pro=rated amount for a day's worth of paper-card fare.

Disadvantages of 7-day-cards, whether paper or payg--You use it or lose it. If you don't travel that day, you don't get any funds back. If you don't travel and don't reach what would have been the cap, too bad. It's pre-paid.

What we did was we loaded up Oyster cards and topped them as needed. We didn't bother with trying to avoid peak times of travel. On the day before we wanted to use 2for1 vouchers at two sites, we went to a rail station and bought 1-day paper cards for the next day.

What I would do in your case is first have girls decide what sites they want to see, then see if any of them use those vouchers. Then sketch out a tentative schedule. And then decide about what combination of travel-cards they need.

If they are really directionally challenged the best thing you can do is to guide them to getting a really goo map of London as well as the tube system. Then they should mark where they will be staying and what they want to see on the maps. If they go to the web site of any major sight it willlist the closest tbue stations. (Unless you have ADHD learing to read a map properly is just an esily learned skill - like any other - if you put in the time.)

I would vote against the trip to Paris - since the cost will be high and the time to see much is limited. Also - how is their French. We let our teens wander around Paris on their own - but they both had decent French.

Following up nytraveler's suggestion, just point them in the direction of
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...itor-guide.pdf