2 1/2 weeks: Is this crazy?
 

The wife and I are going to Europe for 17 nights at the end of July/beginning of August. I went on a 9 county, 2 week tour of Europe when I was 17 (I'm not 34 and my wife is 32). My wife has never been. We started with a ridiculous itinerary, that included about 10 places. I still think our itinerary is a bit too busy and overly ambitious. Here's where we're at right now along with the reasons we want to go to each place:

Copenhagen, 2 nights: Eating at Noma is what started this whole trip. We've wanted to eat here for a long time.
Switzerland (Jungfrau region), 2 nights: I am an avid hiker and love mountains.
Rome, 4 nights: Art, Vatican.
Florence, 3 nights: Art. I've wanted to see Il Duomo since I was a kid.
Cinque Terre (probably Manarola), 1 night: Looks beautiful. We want to drive the Rivieras.
Monte Carlo, 1 night: Break up the drive and stay somewhere ritzy
Paris, 4 nights: Art, the wife loves the idea of Paris, romance, etc.

We plan on flying from Copenhagen to Zurich, then driving to Grindelwald. Then driving to Milan and flying to Rome. Train from Rome to Florence. Drive the Italian and French Rivieras to Marseille and fly to Paris.

This is a lot of traveling, I know. I keep trying to talk myself out of Copenhagen but really don't want to miss Noma. The only place I've been is Paris. We don't mind driving and enjoy road trips in the states. I would appreciate some input and/or suggestions. Thank you.

I think you answered the question yourself.

Here just a few remarks:

2 nights in the Jungfrau region means 1 day. And what if you have bad weather on this particular day?

Rome and Florence sound reasonable.

Cinque Terre is overrated IMO.

Driving the Rivieras means you will drive the motorway - and have because you want to cover much ground.

There are two spectacular drives on the French side: The Corniches between Monaco and Nice and, even more scenic, the Corniche de l'Esterel between Cannes and St. Raphael.

I would not stay in Monaco. You find many ritzy hotels at better places.

I guess what do you like about road trips in the US and what makes you think they will be the same in Europe?

Actually I have been driven through Switzerland a few times and it is fun (for a bit) but only for a bit on the high roads.

Copenhagen is a great place to start (chose a hotel that lends free bicycles to get around as cars are used for less than half the journeys in town)

Fly Milan to Rome, ...... y'what? Why would you fly when you can catch the train? seat61.com on how to enjoy it and Palanque will be along a suggest first class and for once, at this time, I'd agree with him.

Driving the Rivieras, no idea, rental cars across borders cost big money and I'd guess you'd want a soft top for the rivieras.

So apart from that it all looks fine

>> still think our itinerary is a bit too busy and overly ambitious.<<

WAY too ambitious IMO. 2 nights in Copenhagen will net you 1.5 jetlagged days. Then straight on to Switzerland and 2 nights which equals one full day - a LOT of travel/hassle for one day. Four nights in Rome = 3 days. Three nights in Florence is OK - nets you 2.5 days.

Driving from Florence to the CT to Monte Carlo makes no sense and will leave you almost no time in either place.

And if you are still driving -- it is a 10 hour drive to Paris and you end up w/ 3 days in Paris.

In your time -- Copenhagen > Rome > Florence > Paris (and no driving ) makes sense.

we were all posting at the same time . . .

just a bad plan all around :(

Just to begin with, I would suggest you reverse the trip and end with Noma rather than start with it due to jet leg. However, if it makes a difference to you, I think you really need to nail down whether the chef of Noma is going to be in the kitchen the night you book, because he spends time in other kitchens around the world, sometimes for weeks at a time. Maybe you don't care. (Also, can you meet the requirement for getting a booking? My understanding is that reservations for 2 are nearly impossible to come by).

But if it were my trip, I would Fly to Paris, skip the French Riviera and instead head to the Valle d'Aosta for hiking, then swing by le Cinque Terra on the way to Florence and fly from Pisa to Copenhagen.

Picking up a car in France and dropping it off in Italy, or vice versa, is going to cost you extra (somebody has to drive the car back over the border). But if you are Noma and Monaco-worthy, you might not care.

If you want to do something more spectacular and glam than Monaco (it's really a dump, just a dump with a lot of money), consider the multi-stage cable car over Mont Blanc instead

But even if you'd rather hike than ride, the hiking trails around Mont Blanc (Montebianco in Italian) are destination worthy and I think easier to fit into your wishlist than the Jungfrau

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...70033960188796

<i>But if you are Noma and Monaco-worthy, you might not care.<bi>
Zepp....gotta admit this is your best chuckle line since you've returned as Sandra....and so apropo.

Reservations for two are easier to come by if you are willing to sit at the large shared table.

I meant to also give you the link to the Montebianco cable car

http://www.montebianco.com

For Cote d'Azur hotels, look at these:

http://miramar-beachspa.tiara-hotels.com/en/ (I like the location)

http://www.hotel-du-cap-eden-roc.com/eng/home/ (this is a classic)

http://www.intercontinental-carlton-cannes.com/en/ (this one starred in many movies)

http://www.reservebeaulieu.com/

I can only agree that you are trying to stuff way too many places in your limited time.

As for driving, much a we love road trips in europe (and have done 20 plus) this is for visiting smaller towns and the countryside - makes no sense in cities. We have rented a car on the Riviera - but to do day trips from Nice into the hills.

Staying in Monaco (fund to do the James Bond thing at the casino but big $ and it doesn't look like you would have time) makes little sense and driving to Paris none at all. Just hop on a TGV and get there much faster with no hassle.

My only comment is that it is just as easy, or easier, to take the train from Marseille to Paris as to fly. I don't agree with that on really long or complicated routes, but I do for that one, and then you end up in central Paris. It's only 3:30 hrs by train. And you won't want a car in Marseille, anyway, so it can't be a reason that you want to drive to the airport. If you don't intend to visit Marseille and only Monaco, it still doesn't make sense to drive to the Marseille airport in order to fly to Paris. I guess you want to drive that route for some reason, but the train goes along the coast more or less, also. I think if you go from there by train, you do need to go back to Nice (so you could drive there, drop off the car if you want, or drop it off in Monaco), then take the TGV from Nice to Paris--that part does take about 6 hours, but driving to Marseille airport (which is to the west of it) and fooling with airports both ends won't get you much ahead, if at all.

I think you are romanticizing driving the Riviera in peak season.

Oh, I forgot that you want to travel in July/August.

The Côte d'Azur will be crowded as hell and expect the scenic roads being heavily congested. No fun driving there this time of year.

Skipping the Rivieras would relax your itinerary. Allow more time for Switzerland.

I'm not filthy rich but I do alright and don't mind paying for nice things from time to time. I am a bit nervous about getting a reservation at Noma since this is main reason for going to Copenhagen (thought I'd still like to see the city). If we cut out Copenhagen and the Rivieras, y'all think it would be more doable/enjoyable? I haven't really thought about Monte Blanc. The idea of staying in a small, mountain town in Switzerland in the summer really appeals to me...

Yes I think there are some parts of this itinerary that are "crazy". Like going to Switzerland for only 2 nights. An entire stunningly beautiful country and it just gets a look-see?

Yes, if you cut Copenhagen and the Rivera, you'll have a much better trip:
Switzerland - Rome - Florence - Paris would be an excellent trip in your 17 days. Remember that each time you change locations, you lose most of a day. It takes 4 days in a place just to get three full days to see/do/experience what you came for.

I would for sure cut Copenhagen, Cinque Terre, the Rivieras, Monte Carlo. Maybe cut Switzerland, Florence.

BUT I would add Venice (if your wife finds the idea of Paris "romantic" wait until she sees Venice!).

You also have a couple of expensive one way drop offs with your hire cars in your original plan. Cross border drop offs usually incur a steep fee.

Oh and end of July beginning of August is also peak time for European holidays. France still experience Black Saturday around the start of August, when the motorways turn into one huge traffic jam.
You need to pin down where you want to go soon so you can book asap.

If you really want to go to Noma, then 2016 is the time to go (Although the team is in Australia right now). It is scheduled to be closed on Dec. 31, 2016. Plan your time, in Copenhagen and then fill in the rest of the trip.

janis suggested this
In your time -- Copenhagen > Rome > Florence > Paris (and no driving ) makes sense.

Although, I would allow more than a couple of days for Copenhagen, just to allow full justice for your meal at Noma.

Just had lunch with the wife. Nova is no guaranty we'll get a reservation. We're pretty set now on doing Switzerland (4 nights), Florence (4), Rome (5) and Paris (4). With a day trip to Pompeii from Rome. I know it'll be hot but I live in Texas where it's 104 in the summer so I'm thinking we'll be okay. One more question, what order do y'all think would be the best?

Also, hetismij2, why book asap and what is Black Saturday?

The order you have it is OK. Or put Paris first and fly home from Rome at the end.

In July, Rome and Florence are likely to be the hottest -- although you never can tell. But I think I would like a break from sightseeing and tourists in the middle of the trip. (Switzerland will have loads of tourists but it is easier to get away from them in the mountains if you like to hike up hills. Then I would go to Paris for the finale.

So I would fly to Rome or Naples, go to Florence -- head for Switzerland, finish up in Paris.

I'm sure you've heard about taking water, hats, sunscreen to Pompei in summer. No shade there. Go as early in the morning as you can.

Thanks to all who've replied. This has been a big help!

end of July beginning of August is also peak time for European holidays. France still experience Black Saturday around the start of August, when the motorways turn into one huge traffic jam.

Because of returning local vacationers.

Europeans generally get much more vacation than americans and it's very common to get the entire month of august off. So the first Saturday of August a massive number of families trek all over europe heading for their vacation homes or taking RVs to camp grounds or just heading for resort areas.

So you can get traffic jams that are bumper to bumper miles long heading from major cities to resort areas. Google what the worst day willl be this year and stay off the road (or just do local driving) on that day.

That two days of driving from Cinque Terre to Paris would be hellish for me. I do not like this idea one bit. For someone who is an avid hiker, you sure you want to spend two days straight in a car? There is almost no hiking on your trip! The whole trip sounds like a nightmare to me. I can move around a lot, but this is silly. Fly transatlantic and spend two night and then fly and drive and spend another two night...and then drive and fly again... that's already a bad idea. Too much transportation.... you are spending most of your trip just getting on.