sshea

I've been doing my reserach and developing, revising and more revising of our itinerary for our 1st trip to Italy the last 2 weeks of May, 2006. I'd like some feedback and info, please.

We are leaving Atlanta on Friday afternoon (12.5.06) to arrive in Milan around 10:00a Saturday 13.5.06 to avoid wasting a day on travel. We plan to take the train to Como then ferry (or any betters suggested transportation) to Cernobbia to stay for 3 nights. We currently have reservations at the Hotel Villa Flori. We plan to relax the rest of Saturday. Sunday and Monday (14th and 15th) we plan to take a day trip to Locarno to take the Train of the Hundred Valleys to Domodossola. What is the best way to get from Cernobbia to Locarno? or should we go to Domodossola first?

The other day we plan to take a day trip into Milan to window shop and view da Vinci's The Last Supper.

On Tuesday 16.5.06 we play to travel to Venice. Our dilema - drive to Venice or take the train. We want to stop in Verona, too. Can you take the train there, then catch another to Venice? Is it worth trying to see Bergamo, too?

We have hotel reservations for 2 nights at the Hotel Ca' d'Oro which includes a free tour via private motor boat of one of the glass factories in Murano. Don't know if it's worth the time to tour Burano but we'd at least like to see the city. Is a guided tour of the islands recommended? Reading comments on Venice, it seems to be one of those places you either love or hate. We're hoping the cooler weather in May will make Venice a place we'll love.

Thurs 18.5.06
Next travel dilema. Traveling from Venice to Portofino. Should we rent a car outside of Venice and drive or take a train? How much time would each take? I don't mind driving if there's some great places to stop at on the way. Figure driving will probably take an entire day. I don't think there's a train that goes directly into Portofino (at least I haven't been able to find one) What would the connections be?

We plan to stay 2 nights in Portofino at the Hotel Piccolo. I'd like to see as much in this area as time permits. Thought about traveling to Genoa (best way train? or ferry? or drive?) but then again, I'd like to tour some towns on the Cinque Terre. Right now we're planning to drive to Florence on Sat 20.5.06. Should we include Cinque Terre as part of that drive? Maybe stopping there first as we start out, then detouring through Pisa.

We plan to spend that Saturday afternoon touring Florence. Just want to hit the hightlights - Uffizi Gallery, Michaelangelo's David, etc. then drive to Siena that evening. Still haven't booked a hotel room in this area yet. Don't have to stay in Siena but would like to stay somewhere in the area that's convenient for day trips. We play to stay 3 nights in this area.

Tuesday 23.5.06 we plan to drive to Rome early that morning. I don't want to drive in the city so is there a place to drop the car off outside the city and take a train? We have reservations for 2 nights at the Hotel Barocco. We figure we can see the Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps (all close to the hotel) and just soak up the atmosphere the rest of the day. The next day, is it possible to tour the Coliseum and Forum in the a.m. (or p.m.) and visit Vatican City/Sistine Chapel the other part of the day or would this be cultural overload? Is it worth arranging a guided tour for these destinations? We plan to take the train from Rome to Naples on Thursday 25/5/06 so we could tour some sites that morning.

Thursday 25.5.06 Train to Naples. While in Naples, we want to visit the Museum with the Pompeii artifacts (can't remember the name off the top of my head) then travel on to Sorrento. Once in Sorrento, we plan to tour Pompeei and Vesuvius, tour some of the other surrounding areas and relax. We have hotel reservations at the Villa Garden Hotel.

Sunday 28.5.06 we plan to take a 12:40p flight out of Naples back to Atlanta.

Whew - what a whirlwind. Any feedback suggestions, reviews of hotels etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Once I get the itinerary nailed down, I'll post a separate message on Train station and car rental logistics

Thanks!!

lenox236

This would be reasonable if you had much much more time. I also dont understand the order of Portofino - you are going all the way to Venice, then all the way back to Portofino? And then back to Florence in the same direction?

fun4all4

Hi!
Personally, I would cut out one or 2 stops as you have planned a lot of travelling around. Every time you move, it takes a long time. You need to allow for checking out, eating, bathroom stops, getting lost, getting lost again, and then checking in and getting settled.

However, the main reason I replied is that we stayed at Hotel Barocco for 3 nights in October and loved it! Everything was clean, the breakfasts were fabulous and the staff was friendly and helpful. We also loved Rome and can't wait to return.

chicagolori

SShea - I agree that this is very aggressive. Not sure if you planned it to be so but it seems like you would need about 6 weeks to do this justice. I think it will be a big hectic blur.

Also - portofino would make sense after your Milan/Lake leg of the trip. Otherwise, you are retracing a lot of steps to go to Venice and then back.
With that being said, I think you should skip Portofino and add those days to Venice. I might even skip the days in Cernobbio and add them on to Rome. As it is now, you have less than 2 days in Rome and Venice.

Are you really committed to the flight schedule? Is that cast in stone? That might change some of the recommendations if you are open to hearing that this is a very aggressive trip and might be more enjoyable if simplified.

Doble_Vergasser

We all try to see all that there is during one trip. (possibly a vacation that won't be a vacation). Even if you are a type A+ and in your 20's this is an aggressive itinerary.

Usually, it takes the better part of day to move from Hotel city to different city hotel. The usual recommendation is to plan your travel in blocks of at least three days (one day to relocate, at least two days for the sights.)

It sounds like you have some fixed things in your itinerary (hotel reservations already made, etc.) My suspicion is that one of your big stops will have to drop out of your itinerary.

Have a good trip.

suze

I'm no expert on travel in Italy but if I'm counting correctly I came up with at least 13 cities you plan to visit in 17 days! Most of them not particularly close to each other.

Every time you change locations/hotels subtract ~1/2 day between packing, checking out of hotel, getting to the station, taking the train, doing all in reverse in the new location. Using that formula you don't even have a full day in any place you visit.

Honestly I would cut your destinations in half or extend your trip by double. Even if you hadn't mentioned it, I would have bet money that this was your first trip to Italy because your itinerary is incredibly ambitious to say the least. kindly, s.

Wifeybug

Hi there!

Italy is great! I wish that I knew about these boards when I was putting our trip together. Here's my 2 cents:

Good point: You are flying open jaw. Gawd, I wish that I had booked open jaw tickets when we went to Italy. The 7 hour train ride from Naples to Milan was a waste of a day. Live and learn.

Bad Point: You are trying to cram in a lot of little towns, which don't really flow that well. This will keep you on the run, which isn't very relaxing. I can understand the temptation to pack in as much as you can; but you don't want to go home needing a vacation after your vacation. Plus, you should give yourselves a chance to soak up the flavor of the areas that you visit. There is so much to see in Italy.

We were in Italy from May 24 to June 7 in 2003. I made all of our arrangements myself. Our 2-week itinerary went something like this:

5/24 arrived in Milan from SF (1 night)
There is a 3 hour bus tour that you can book at the TI, which includes the Last Supper fresco. Good overview and intro to Italy. We had friends here, so this was a necessary stop for us.

5/25 train to Venice (2 nights)
romantic, great for strolling, touristy (ask the locals where they go to eat, get resto ideas from these boards, and be wary of menus in English, German, and Italian).

5/27 train to Florence (3 nights)
museums, great shopping, more strolling

5/30 bus to Siena (2 nights)
quaint, charming, great food and wine

6/1 bus to Rome (3 nights)
a bit overwhelming, busy, awesome sites, get a nicer hotel room to retreat to after sightseeing all day.

6/4 train to Sorrento via Naples (2 nights) small, coastal, relaxing, springboard to Capri or commuter train to Pompeii. Bus ride to Positano from here.

6/6 train to Milan via Naples (1 night)
Don't ever do this. We went 1st class, which made this long trip more pleasant. Open jaw would have given us more chill time on the Amalfi Coast. Waaaah!

6/7 depart from Milan to SF

For a first trip, I think it's good to hit the biggies: Venice, Florence, and Rome. Then you can mix in a couple of smaller towns. If we had more time, I would have loved to explore Tuscany. We had the best food and wine during our stay in Siena. We let go of Pompeii, because we were tired and we didn't want to run ourselves ragged before leaving. We did take a bus ride from Sorrento to Positano one day, which was nice. 17 days won't allow you to adequately experience all that Italy has to offer. Pace yourself, prioritize your sights and activities, relax, enjoy, and prepare for a return trip. Hope this helps.

HowardR

Your plans sound like an "If-this-is-Tuesday-it-must-be-Belgium" sort of itinerary. As the saying goes: Take time to smell the roses.
Taking just one day as an example, on your only full day in Rome, to do justice to the Vatican alone (the museum and St. Peter's) would pretty much consume to the whole day.

rbrazill

I have to agree with the others, this would be a hectic trip. To me, the most stressful days on vacation are the transition days when you have to pack everything up, check out,lug everything to the train/bus/ferry and then find your next hotel. The more times you pack and unpack, the greater your chances of leaving your watch/camera/sunglasses behind somewhere.
Having said that, I can make a few suggestions. Since you are flying into Milan, why not immediately check into a hotel and spend your first night there? You can reserve a viewing of The Last Supper for a fairly precise time on the afternoon of your arrival. Depending on your mood, you can see the Duomo and Galleria, or just walk around. After a nice meal, you can adjust to the new time zone and start fresh in the morning. Or, you can spend another afternoon exploring Milan.
The first part of your trip, Milan, Lago Como, and Venice, will not require renting a car and you'd be better off without one. If you get an early enough start you can spend some time in Verona before heading on to Venice. They are on the same train line and are fairly close together.
We drove to Locarno from Lago di Garda. It was nice enough, but not, IMHO, worth a special trip.
I'm not a big fan of Venice but, if you are going to go, you really have to give yourself more than two days (particularly since you will be traveling for parts of these days.) I think you will feel that a trip to Murano was not a great investment in time. When you travel on the "free" motor boats, you are a hostage to the sales staff at the factories who have brought you there, not to see how glass is made, but to buy their product. I loved Burano, which I found to be a great relief from the crowds and hype of San Marco, but I think if you only have two days, you'll probably not want to spend a lot of time traveling from one island to another.
I agree with the others who recommend dropping Portofino from your trip. It is an overpriced, overhyped jetsetter destination, with little to offer. I'd add this day to Venice or Florence. As others have said, you would be re-tracing your steps, since you literally have to go through Florence in order to get to Portofino from Venice.
Save Portofino and Cinque Terre for another trip. If you must go, take the train since you will have difficulty parking in Portofino and your next stop, Florence.
Your idea of traveling from Portofino to Florence to see the Uffizi and the Accademia in one afternoon is unrealistic. The travel time is considerable (Portofino is not on a rail line, and the train from Santa Margherita to Spezia or Pisa is slow.) Both museums are huge and not conducive to a run through. I would skip Ligure and spend a couple of days in Florence. You can't take in hundreds of years of art treasures in a couple of hours. Alternatively, you could stay somewhere south of Florence for four or five days, and combine day trips to Florence, Siena and some Tuscan hilltowns.
After that, you might consider just spending four or five days in Rome and leaving Naples and Sorrento for another day. The idea of taking a train from Rome to Naples, getting off, traveling to the Archeological Museum, and then taking a train or bus on to Sorrento in the same day is, frankly, silly. There is so much to see in Rome that it would be a shame to trade it for a day of trains,taxis and buses.
Slow down. It will still be there on your next trip.

Melissa5

You're trying to squeeze in way too much. Until you've been to Italy, you won't realize how very rich in sites a place like Rome or Florence is. Every time you take a few steps or turn a corner there's an atmospheric piazza calling you to linger; a church full of treasures like statues by famous artists; museums with priceless treasures; not to mention the gelato shops! Trust us, it's just a crime to try to rush through fabulous destinations like Rome, Florence, and Venice!

Also, the Vatican Museums and St. Peter's are FULL DAY's worth of sight-seeing. Even after a full day you absolutely won't see it all. If you check the web-site for the Vatican Museums you will notice that for one price you get the Vatican Museums...notice the plural on the word...which includes the Egyptian museum section, the Sistine chapel, and tons of other museum sections with art from different periods...

A 3 or 4 hour guided walking tour of the Ancient Rome area will give you just a taste of sights like the Colosseum, the Roman Forum, and the Pantheon...you will absolutely NOT see it all. That's a separate day's work from the day you see the Vatican Museums and St. Peter's.

A better itinerary for your 2 weeks would be something like this:

Fly into Rome.
4 nights: ROME
2 nights: SORRENTO (day-trip to Pompeii)
3 nights: FLORENCE or SIENA (an hour and a half apart but worlds apart in atmosphere)
3 nights: VENICE (buy the 3-day vaporetto pass for 22 euros per person to get unlimited on and off privileges on the vaporettos, which will also take you to the little islands of Murano and burano for day-trips. No tour needed. Just wander around with your map and a guidebook!)

2 nights: That leaves you with 2 nights to spend as you wish.

Enjoy! Trust us, your plan would be like watching the beginning of a dozen movies but skipping the climax and the endings of all the movies! Then you'd probably also start getting the characters and plots mixed up...

suze

I would be even more dramatic in trimming the trip and suggest:
3 day Milan
5 day Venice
4 day Florence
5 day Rome
Flying into Milan and out of Rome, traveling in between on the trains. Skip the 'free' boatride in Venice (think timeshare sales pitch).

ellenem

Thought it might help you (and us) analyze your trip more easily if it was distilled like this:

Friday 12.5.06
Depart Atlanta

Saturday 13.5.06
Arrive Milan.
Half day travel to Cernobbia via Como
Sleep in Cernobbia.

Sunday 14.5.06
Daytrip to Locarno? Domodossola?
Sleep in Cernobbia.

Monday 15.5.06
Daytrip to Milan/Last Supper.
Sleep in Cernobbia.

Tuesday 16.5.06
Half day (without stops) travel to Venice.
Possible stops in Verona and Bergamo.
Sleep in Venice.

Wednesday 17.5.06
Boat trip to Murano/Burano.
Sleep in Venice.

Thursday 18.5.06
Almost full day travel to Portofino.
Sleep in Portofino.

Friday 19.5.06
Daytrip to Genoa? Cinque Terre?
Sleep in Portofino.

Saturday 20.5.06
Half day (without stops) travel to Florence.
Possible stops in Cinque Terre or Pisa.
Afternoon touring Florence (Uffizi Gallery, Michaelangelo's David)
Travel to Siena.
Sleep in/near Siena.

Sunday 21.5.06
Sleep in Siena area.

Monday 22.5.06
Sleep in Siena area.

Tuesday 23.5.06
Half day travel to Rome.
Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps, soak up the atmosphere.
Sleep in Rome.

Wednesday. 24.5.06
Coliseum and Forum in the a.m.
Vatican City/Sistine Chapel p.m.
Sleep in Rome.

Thursday 25.5.06
Half day train travel to Naples.
Visit Museum with the Pompeii artifacts
Travel on to Sorrento.
Sleep in Sorrento.

Friday 26.5.06
Daytrip to Pompeii and Vesuvius
Sleep in Sorrento.

Saturday 27.5.06
Daytrip to Amalfi coast.
Sleep in Sorrento.

Sunday 28.5.06
Travel to Naples for 12:40p flight to Atlanta.


When I've noted "half day travel," actual travel times might not be a half day, but as others have mentioned, making connections, packing, checking in and out, making mistakes, all adds up to a half day.

You seems to arrive at many places, but never spend any time there. I'd definitely remove Portofino and Cinque Terre from this itinerary since you plan other seaside locations (Venice, Sorrento). Here's my suggested schedule--still agressive by some standards, but more time to soak up the atmosphere as you'd hoped.

Friday 12.5.06
Depart Atlanta

Saturday 13.5.06
Arrive Milan.
Half day travel to Cernobbia via Como
Sleep in Cernobbia.

Sunday 14.5.06
Enjoy Lake Como.
Sleep in Cernobbia.

Monday 15.5.06
Daytrip to Milan/Last Supper.
Sleep in Cernobbia.

Tuesday 16.5.06
Half day travel to Venice.
Sleep in Venice.

Wednesday 17.5.06
Tour Venice.
Sleep in Venice.

Thursday 18.5.06
Boat trip to Murano/Burano.
Sleep in Venice.

Friday 19.5.06
Half day travel to Florence.
Afternoon touring Florence (Michaelangelo's David)
Sleep in Florence.

Saturday 20.5.06
Tour Florence (Uffizi Gallery)
Sleep in Florence.

Sunday 21.5.06
Daytrip to Siena.
Sleep in Florence.

Monday 22.5.06
Half day travel to Rome.
Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps, soak up the atmosphere.
Sleep in Rome.

Tuesday 23.5.06
Tour anceint Rome: Coliseum and Forum.
Sleep in Rome.

Wednesday. 24.5.06
Tour Vatican City/Sistine Chapel
Sleep in Rome.

Thursday 25.5.06
Half day train travel to Naples.
Visit Museum with the Pompeii artifacts
Travel on to Sorrento.
Sleep in Sorrento.

Friday 26.5.06
Daytrip to Pompeii and Vesuvius
Sleep in Sorrento.

Saturday 27.5.06
Daytrip to Amalfi coast.
Sleep in Sorrento.

Sunday 28.5.06
Travel to Naples for 12:40p flight to Atlanta.

Have a great trip.

suze

Santa Margarita is a more budget friendly option which makes a day visit by ferry to Portofino possible.

tdyls

A rule of thumb is that you need a full two weeks just to see the Big Three in Italy, let alone also adding in Lake Como, Milan, and Sorrento/Naples/AC. I'll dissent and recommend dropping Venice altogether from this trip. Given all of the other places that you want to go, it's off by itself and makes for a logistical headache. That, and for a first trip to Italy, don't just go to all of the tourist places -- try and go somewhere off the beaten path, at least in one place, to get away from the hordes of tourists.

I propose the following:

Day 0: Depart ATL
Day 1: Arrive MXP, go to Milan
Day 2: Milan
Day 3: Milan
Day 4: Milan
Day 5: Travel to Florence
Day 6: Florence
Day 7: Florence
Day 8: Florence
Day 9: Travel to Rome
Day 10: Rome
Day 11: Rome
Day 12: Rome
Day 13: Travel to Naples
Day 14: Naples
Day 15: Naples
Day 16: Return to ATL

This itinerary provides for 4 nights in each city, which is enough time to settle in and not make this be a whole collection of 1- or 2-night stays in a bunch of places. When vacationing, the less travel you need to do, the better.

Normally you would not need 4 nights in Milan, but this allows for day trips to Lake Como and Bergamo. You could choose to drop one night here and reallocate it to another destination. Milan is only a moderately touristed city (at least compared to Florence and Rome, and proportionately Sorrento). Except for the train station, Naples is not touristed at all and makes an excellent base for the places that you want to see -- the Archaelogical Museum, Pompeii, Herculaneum, Vesuvius, and Sorrento. That, and the pizza and coffee are out of this world.

The big thing to keep in mind is to plan at least two, and preferably four, days in which your most strenuous activity is sipping an espresso and your most difficult decision is deciding what wine to drink. You <i><b>MUST</b></i> plan deliberate down-days where you do nothing. Regardless of how you structure your itinerary or where you end up going, if you do not have a few chances to sit and do nothing, you will not relax, which is the whole purpose of a vacation, right?

suze

It's been a couple days, hopefully we haven't lost our original poster.

chicagolori

It was her only post. Hope we didnt scare her off with our critique. That wasnt the intention for sure.

TarheelsInNj

What I learned very quickly on my first (and so far, only!) trip to Italy is that you have to leave room for Italy to show itself to you. If you travel through with a checklist, you miss so many of the wonderful little things that make Italy so truly enchanting. There is a discovery to be made every corner you turn!

For example, in Florence, we planned for our first major &quot;sight&quot; to be the Piazzale Michelangelo, from which we could see the whole city. On our way up, we found a small gate which led to a beautiful community rose garden, open only 6 weeks a year. From there, we followed little signs for a &quot;secret garden,&quot; and found a perch with a bench that had the most stunning view of Florence imaginable. It is from this private, personal area that we fell in love with Florence. We would have breezed right past it on time constraints, and it is actually one of my favorite memories of our entire honeymoon.

Incidentally, the rose garden is open while you are there (May 1- June 15 only), so I highly recommend it!

sshea

Hi everyone, no you didn't scare me off, I was in a training class and have just now been able to read the responses.

First off, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I knew it was an aggressive plan but when it's your first trip to anywhere in Europe (after years of yearning to travel there), I just got a little carried away

Everyone makes some excellent points.
We really want to absorb more of the local atmosphere than spend all our time in museums but there are some definite must not miss ones. It's not a &quot;romantic&quot; trip but a joint birthday celebration between me and my best friend.

I have thought about staying in Milan the first night and maybe taking a day trip to Como. You know everyone has their favorite &quot;you have to visit&quot; places and this seems to be one of them. Of course, I don't know many people who have traveled to Italy hence my dilema on travel times, places to stay, etc.

Venice, I could take or leave but Becky (my friend) really wants to go there. People have told her how great it was. Of course, we laughed and said that it may be because they had their romatic &quot;significant other&quot; with them and we both agreed as much as we loved each other somehow it just wasn't quite the same What is there to actually see and do in Venice?

I don't really want to stay in Florence, that's why I was looking into a place in Siena as a base and take day trips from there. It is probably a good idea to extend our time to stay in this area. We'd like to visit a winery and maybe a spa.

I kind of figured that I had not allowed enough time in Rome so will probably add some days here.

I'd really like to stay in Sorrento though. Our hotel overlooks the Bay of Naples and has a view of Vesuvius. Pompeii is a definite on my list. I'm more of a history buff than and art enthusiast.

I'm printing out everyone's responses and will do some more homework and revise our itinerary then repost for some more feedback. I have made hotel reservations but than can be canceled without penalty.

Has anyone ever stayed or is familiar with our hotel in Venice Ca' d'Oro? Any suggestions for alternate places to stay? What about in Tuscany? I'm torn about whether or not I want to spend that much time in that area as oppposed to the coast.

Thanks everyone again for their input and suggestions. Let's see what I can come up with.

suze

Oh good. I'm glad you foundt our messages above! I can address your Venice question. It's honestly the only place I've been in Italy but I've been there twice. I love that city.

I was there once solo and the second time with a platonic friend. I don't think of it as &quot;romantic&quot; at all. Just incredibly unique.

What to do? Ride a vaporetto on the Grand Canal. Take a walk to see San Marcos plaza and Rialto bridge. I'm not big on museums so sat outside with a gatorade in the shade while my friend went to one (L'Accadamia? maybe?). Have lunch in a casual cafe where they've got pre-made sandwiches in the glass caselike roasted vegetables or hard boil egg &amp; tomato. Stop for a small glass of white wine or espresso at one of the stand up bars along the sidewalks. Eat gelatto. Sit in any public plaza and people-watch. Take a vaporetto out to the Lido or one of the islands (Burano, Murano, etc.) if you get bored.

TexasAggie

What is there to see in Venice?

-Basilica San Marco
-Doges Palace (be sure to reserve for the Secret Itinerary tour)

-Frari Church
-Academia museum
-Santa Maria della Salute


-cruise the #1 line vaporetto (ferry) up and down the Grand Canal and take in all the gorgeous old palaces


AND SOOOOO MANY MORE THINGS!!!


Personally, I would <b>absolutely NOT</b> bother with going to Murano to see the glass factory on such a short trip to Venice. Murano is the least charming of the three islands that most people visit (Burano, Torcello, and Murano). Also, the prices on glass are sky-high. I'd only recommend you go if you are going to be buying some very high quality items (I'm talking about pieces in excess of a few thousand dollars). Otherwise, see the glass making demonstrations near the piazza off San Marco and buy your souvineers near the Rialto Bridge. Don't waste a half a day with boring Murano.