FredBear2017

Hello All!!! Last year I wanted to run with the bulls in Pamplona and my wife had never been abroad so I said she could pick anywhere and we would find a way to make it work....she loves the outdoors and picked Switzerland (So I immediately cringed at the fact that though it is one of the most beautiful places it is also VERY expensive). We made it work though and planned our 19 day trip throughout Spain and Switzerland . It was incredible. We used the train within both countries but also hopped planes (wife works for American so that helps) to get from Spain to Switzerland minimize travel time. Anyway, we are in our early 30's and want to travel as much as possible but took a lot of people's advice and only try to tackle 2-3 countries at a time so to really get a good understanding of their culture, sights, experiences. It definitely paid off with last years trip.

So to 2017!...My friend and his family have been stationed in Stuttgart, Germany. We figure if we go visit them, we might as well take the opportunity to see other places while in Europe. Somewhat within reach seem to be Bruges and Prague which seem to be high on the must see list for many forums and friends and it's a relatively straight line in regards to geographical location.

All that said, I can probably manage another 19 day (or so) trip and am realistically shooting for sometime between July and September. I've saved around $5k for this trip (we don't need to pay for flights due to wife's job) and figured I can keep saving until we go. What do most of you budget?

Germany being as vast as it is do you think we should dedicate the whole trip within or are there other places you all recommend that we NEED to see/visit in some bordering countries?

We are very easy going people that much prefer the local feel to that of the tourist. We've been known to scrap whole days and spend it in the company of locals that do not speak the same language but still find a way to communicate and stir up huge belly laughs over some wine or beer. Also, we are always up for an intermediate hike to see something worthwhile.

This is the first inquiry/post I've ever written so hopefully it is good info to work with. Any and all insight is greatly appreciated!

WoinParis

Hi
Stuttgart has imo enough to occupy you half a day. Besides the trainstation is still probably being rebuilt which gives an atmosphere of post WW2 to the city.
Bruges is obviously a great choice. Fly to Bxl (BRU) I guess and you may take trains from there to Paris London Amsterdam Koeln Aachen etc.
trains are great for short distance inter cities as they go from center to center which airports don't.
This being said Germany can occupy your full stay.
Prague is also one of my favorite destination. Make it with Dresden and or Leipzig and Berlin to name only big cities.

PalenQ

Driving or taking trains?

For lots about trains which make imminent sense if just going to largish cities where cars are useless once there - check out these IMO superb sources: www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - peruse the latter's online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots on places to go by train or car.

FredBear2017

Thanks WoinParis!

FredBear2017

We'll probably stick to Trains

PalenQ

check out the German Railpass Twin which also takes you full coverage to/from Brussels and Prague (bus from Nurnberg is the best and also covered.

buzzcolin

We spent a few days in beautiful Bruges a couple of years ago before travelling via Brussels to Frankfurt. It was a lovely journey in a modern, clean and very fast train. We have family in Frankfurt and there are so many wonderful old towns and villages around there we found that our few days were not enough. From Frankfurt you could travel on to Stuttgart where if you spent a week you could travel to different towns and villages and really get a feel of the area. Strasbourg in France is just over the boarder to the West and from here you could visit a couple of French towns, perhaps finishing your trip in Paris and flying out of there. Prague is an amazing city but I personally think that it should be combined with a trip to Budapest and Vienna rather than one to Bruges and Stuttgart. September/October is quite a bit cheaper than travelling in July/August - that is also something to consider when you are on a budget.

bigtyke

My expenses for Germany ( wife and I ), staying in apartments or privat zimmers has averaged 150 Euro per day. Used trains and buses

PalenQ

My expenses for Germany ( wife and I ), staying in apartments or privat zimmers has averaged 150 Euro per day. Used trains and buses>

that's about what I would pay but I think the average person may spend more - much more if the staying in nice (expensive) hotels.

Also depends on how much you move around. I always have a railpass because I take trains a lot and love them.

traveldawg

This brings back great memories. I was stationed in Stuttgart in the 70s during the Vietnam War era. My wife and I had no money but managed to see most of Europe in our VW Beetle by staying in zimmer freis and eating cheap. We get to Europe frequently still, can afford nicer places but those trips we did in our 20s are still special.

I agree with one poster. Bruges is great but Prague may be too far for this agenda. Save it for another time and see Budapest, Vienna at same time. If you fly into Frankfurt do a stop in Heidelberg on the way to Stuttgart. The Old Town and Castle is a fun tour.

From Stuttgart it is a nice drive or train to Bavaria....Munich and on to Garmisch. Also Salzburg/Berchtesgaden area is relatively close. The weather at your time of the year will be great as will the scenery.

It sounds like you are locked into doing trains but I recommend a car. The roads are better than the US, the people follow the rules better than the US and the flexibility of a car in stopping in some small town to explore cannot be beat. We have been renting cars in Europe for over 40 years now and over 35+ trips to Europe and will keep doing that until we get too old to drive.

My wife was with American Airlines at one time also and we used to go to Europe each Thanksgiving as space available was plentiful (Americans stayed home) and we could get first class. I think that has all gone by the wayside now.

Bottom line: Do Bruges, but then stay in Germany and try Bavaria. Great castles and scenery.

FredBear2017

Thank you very much for the responses. Saving Prague for another trip seems practical. Pairing it with Budapest sounds like a perfect match and a goal for 2018. Besides, my wife's sister and boyfriend will be joining us and have made an outstanding argument for starting the front end of the trip by stopping over in Iceland and then continuing on into Europe. So not to be stretched too thin we will probably go straight to and stay within Germany/Bavaria (wife MUST SEE Neuschwanstein Castle).

We typically stay away from the nice hotels and enjoy going the AirBNB route, staying in independent room hostels and crashing at friends along the way. We've applied for the mariott credit card and once we build up points will be more likely to take advantage of the hotels in future travels.

I'm not opposed to renting a car...especially with the autobahn within reach...but have always just found the trains relaxing and reliable. Plus, the railpass just seems to be almost "all access" and for the most part hassle free.

150 Euros a day seems like a realistic budget. I'll plan for that.

Again, thank you all for the info and recommendations.

PalenQ

If just going between pt a city and pt b city take the train - cars in cities are useless -if wanting to meander along the Danube or thru countryside drive. And yes the pass you just hop on and check out first class - a definite benefit and passes are not that much more in 1stcl - and you may want to make optional reservations and if not use them lose the 3-5 euros or so-especially reserve in 2nd class during commuting hours.

Fussgaenger

From what I've read so far, Stuttgart and Neuschwanstein are "for sures" and your preferences include a stay in Bruges and train travel.

"...the railpass just seems to be almost "all access" and for the most part hassle free."

Mostly right - but hold off on the pass decision until you have an itinerary. Passes today are often overkill.

You have to travel through Munich to reach N'stein. Prague is 5 hours from Munich but 7 hours from Budapest. Not insurmountable to get there from Munich if you really want to.

But for now let's look at the Bruges-Stuttgart-N'stein route and see what you might pack in along the way.

Heidelberg was previously suggested and is near your route. The Middle Rhine Valley (UNESCO World Heritage site) is in your path as well:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1066

"...she loves the outdoors..." Well, the Rhine is one of Germany's most scenic areas - the train ride through it is considered Germany's top scenic railway, and staying here in one of the old-world towns (Bacharach? St. Goar? Boppard?) a couple of days would allow you visit some fine towns and to walk the Rhine Castle Trails for a few hours:

http://www.romantic-germany.info/index.php?id=2942

Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-c...FF80wORNQ#t=32

Marksburg in Braubach: http://www.marksburg.de/en/

And take a cruise from Bingen to St. Goar to check out some of the other castles from the river (1.5 hours) -

http://www.bingen-ruedesheimer.com/i...-valley290.jpg

Closer to Stuttgart, I'd consider visiting Ludwigsburg, Esslingen and Tübingen.

On the way to Munich and N'stein from Stuttgart, you might consider some Romantic Road towns (Augsburg, Landsberg, Nördlingen.)

WoinParis

Hotels are cheaper than mentioned in Germany.
I stayed in upper hotels in big cities between 100 and 150 € and in the former east german cities I find good hotels at or below 60 €/night.
In small villages, it is difficult to pay more than 100 €/night.

PalenQ

"...the railpass just seems to be almost "all access" and for the most part hassle free."

Mostly right - but hold off on the pass decision until you have an itinerary. Passes today are often overkill.>

Yes indeedy - come up with a semi-firm itinerary and then price out available tickets vs the pass with the caveat that is important to some but not others that the pass allows fully flexible just show up at station travel -and compare both first- and second-class tickets to the pass.

A 10-day German Twin Pass p.p. costs about $32/24 hr day unlimited travels -S-Bahns in cities included - 1stclabout $42/ day

You may use the bargain Lander Tickets some days - like to Fussen where only regional trains serve it (Lander Tickets valid only on Regional trains) and for 2 that would cost for unlimited day of regional trains about 30 euros for both total.

But for long-distance trains even discounted tickets would unlikely to be cheaper than the per day 10 day pass (shorter passes slightly more per day-depending on number of days)- these are flexipasses - valid for X number of unlimited days in a one-month period - use them as you like - could be consecutive but need not be.

Twin Pass is for 2 people traveling on one pass.two kids under 12 get a free pass to match the adults.

Good synopsis of passes-which are also valid as said to several destinations outside of Germany as long as you are on German trains or buses :http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id9.html

I would hold off on buying passes for reasons Fussgaenger mentions and also each spring specials seem to pop up with a free day or something nice. Not always.

FredBear2017

We are nailing down a base itinerary Friday. From there I'll start accumulating the transportation options...good advice.

Surprised but very happy to hear that the hotels are so reasonable! Really trying to keep those cost down but bunking up, which I wouldn't really want to do anyway, is out of the question since my snoring is possibly so bad it could shake loose a few bricks in Germany's oldest castles!

Will do some more homework on the Rhine, the scenic train and staying in the old-towns...sounds like it would encompass everything we are looking for.

PalenQ

staying in the old-towns>

check on train noise in some Rhine towns - mainline goes down the west side with nearly constant freight trains- ask for a guaranteed quiet room.

PalenQ

If staying some days in Rhine towns try to do a day trip to Cochem and the gorgeous Mosel Valley - winery right in town to tour and taste:

https://www.google.com/search?q=coch...Hde8BzMQsAQIGw

Can take a boat there from Koblenz or back-trains run there regularly from Koblenz with rail connections to all Rhine towns.