18 Days in Italy! Input to finalize itinerary, book apts/hotels please!
 

24 years after first dreaming of visiting Italy, my husband and I have booked our flights for an 18 day visit to Italy in May 2014! We have the "bones" of our itinerary but would welcome input about day trips, the order in which to connect Florence, Assisi, Orvieto, and Rome, and towns we might add in or leave out. We like to "pack in" as many experiences as we can without becoming completely exhausted. (While we hope to return to Italy, there are so many other places we want to see that it may not happen at our ages - mid 60's). We view trips as primarily "educational" - learning about places and cultures and then experiencing them in person. We enjoy wandering around small towns but also enjoy the beauty of museums and churches, and visiting archaeological sites. (I would be happy to visit every possible church but my husband's tolerance for that is more limited, so we will concentrate on the "most recommended.") We don't shop, and while we look forward to enjoying a few good meals, we would rather grab a pizza or sandwich and see more sights than spend time eating lengthy lunches. We also enjoy natural beauty (our most recent trip was to Switzerland), and chose to go in May in hope of seeing Spring flowers as we pass through the countryside. I love to photograph what I see, so that tends to slow me down a bit.

We plan primarily to use public transportation but have looked at the possibility of renting a car for portions of the trip, although we would rather not unless it makes visiting certain places significantly easier.

We are looking for apartments in Varenna or Bellagio, Venice, Florence, and Rome but would also welcome suggestions on B&B's and hotels. Our preference is to keep lodging costs under an average of $150/night although we know that may be difficult in some places.

So here we go! I've been reading guide books, forums, and other sites, and here is what we have come up with so far -

Day 1 - Depart US
Day 2 - Arrive Milan at 11:50 am; train to Varenna; on to Bellagio if we stay there.
Day 3 - Relaxing on Lake Como (mid-lake ferry - Varenna/Bellagio/Menaggio)
Day 4 - More relaxing on Lake Como (mid-lake Ferry - Varenna/Bellagio/Menaggio)
Does the "slow boat" to/from Como pass by anything special we would miss by concentrating on the mid-lake ferry?
Note: I explored the possibility of the bus/train to St Moritz as we missed taking the Bernina Express when we visited Switzerland, but it sounds like this would make for a very long day trip. Comments from anyone who has done this?
Day 5 - Varenna or Bellagio to Verona and/or Padua; spend the night
Day 6 - Padua to Venice
Day 7 - Venice
Day 8 - Venice (Murano/Burano)
Day 9 - Venice to Florence; half day in Florence
Day 10-11-12-13 - visit Florence and day trips from Florence
Lucca/Pisa
Siena
Cinque Terre (I know it's a long day trip but would love to at least get a
glance at the towns, mostly by ferry if weather allows; may do one easy,
short hike
Would love to see Byzantine mosaics in Ravenna but it's a really long and
expensive round trip; have considered going on the way from Venice to
Florence but would arrive late in Florence, which we prefer not to do.
Comments from anyone who has done either of these options?
Day 14 - Florence to Assisi; stay overnight here, or go on to Orvieto
Day 15 - Orvieto; on to Rome
I have read various ways of connecting Florence-Siena-Assisi-Orvieto. Comments on the most practical way to do this?
Day 16- 17-18-19 - visit Rome
My husband is interested in a day trip to Pompeii but it is long and expensive; I think I would prefer Ostia Antica (I have been to Athens and loved visiting the ancient sites there.) Other suggestions for side trips from Rome? Note that we hope to "do" south of Rome on another trip.
Day 20 - flight departs 11:50 am

The "must-do's on the trip are Lake Como (to relax and overcome jet lag), Venice, Florence, Lucca, Pisa, Rome. The Cinque Terre looks amazing (my husband loves seaside towns), and Siena, Assisi, and Orvieto have been recommended by friends as well as by guidebooks and forums. Padua and Verona sound interesting but I wonder if we should head straight from Lake Como to Venice (the #1 destination of the trip) and use that day elsewhere. As I mentioned, I would love to see the Byzantine mosaics in Ravenna, but it just seems too time-consuming to get to. (Perhaps we'll get to stop on a cruise one day, or will visit Istanbul!) Suggestions on which of these "undecideds" you favor, why, and how to work them in would be appreciated. I know each person's preferences are personal to that individual, but reading the comments does give me new ideas to consider.

I hope to get the itinerary finalized so that I can begin booking accommodations very soon. Suggestions on the itinerary, how best to get from one place to another (I have researched connections on the trenitalia website and know to take the bus from Florence to Siena but there may be connections I haven't considered), places to stay, and places to eat on a budget (under $25 per person for dinner except for an occasional splurge; we are light eaters and don't drink) are welcomed!

Many thanks in advance!

I have only been to 3 places mentioned, so I will only comment on those. First of all, if you can anyway fit Pompeii into your trip- I would recommend it. It was the highlight of my trip to Italy. Naples is fascinating with a musr see archeology museum and Sorrento also is very nice. Pisa would be just one day trip, but I suggest to go to the Tower early in the day because it gets very crowded in that area. We went to Rome in July which was crazy hot and crowded. You are smart to take this trip in May.

I think you will find Padua a little gem which outshines Verona a fair bit. You might also like to get from Padua to Venice by boat http://www.battellidelbrenta.it/home.php?setlan=en this is just one company offering the trip and while I have not done it myself I have ridden the canal on a bike and it looks like real fun.

In 18 days you are rushing too much, this is the country of the slow movement. I'd cull a few cities so maybe Assisi and Orvieto need to go and while I might add Herculanium (rather than Pompeii) I would not add CT unless you have not see houses on a cliff side before.

My own view on Ravenna is that while fascinating I'd buy a good book of photos as you already have loads to do on this trip.

Food, if you want to hit 25$ per person find restaurants two blocks back from the high spots (european blocks are tiny) or hunt tripadvisor for local's snack spots. Eating the main meal of the day at 12:30 should get you 3 courses including wine and tap water for about Euro 13 each from Monday to Friday. Just look out for Meal of the Day signs.

One thing that will save you money is dump all the fizzy drinks you may be used to having, in continental Europe wine is very cheap, bottled water is expensive and fizzy drinks are horrific.

Oh and a vote against Naples here, it is a dump, but you have to pass through it to get to Vesuvius so grin and bare it.

One day in a destination = two nights there. How many nights are you planning for this trip?

"...we would rather grab a pizza or sandwich and see more sights than spend time eating lengthy lunches."

That's too bad. Those long lunches are often the high point of our trips to Italy.

Three day trips in four days while in Florence seems a bit excessive.

We spent eight nights in Rome and fully intended on doing two day trips (Ostia Antica and Orvieto). Once there, we ended up throwing those plans out the window. There is so much to do and see in Rome. With four days, I would focus on just Rome.

Narrow your focus a bit. Make the tough decisions about what to include and what to toss.

Have fun planning.

I have not been to Pompeii, but if you are saving Southern Italy for another trip, then plan on doing Pompeii then.

Ostia Antica is just 30 minutes train ride from Rome center. I found the site fascinating! And it needs a minimum of 2 hours to see the major sites, 4 if you want to do it real justice. There is a free Rick Steves download walking tour for this site. And you can use your Roma Pass here, too. Highly, highly recommend Ostia Antica. (Please note, it is a large site and not circular... you have to walk all the way back to the entrance when you're done. We found a paved asphalt road runs along the north side of the site, so when you are ready to leave, head to that road- it is the fastest way to depart the site.) DO take a lunch. You can sit in the still-intact theater and take it all in!

I would spend less time in the Lakes and add those days to Venice.

Additionally, I would skip the Cinque Terra this trip. There is MUCH to do in Florence, so day-tripping 3 of 4 days while encamped there is too much, in my humble opinion! DO make sure you are at the Piazzale Michelangelo about 20 minutes prior to sunset (if it is not cloudy/raining) for the most spectacular view! Not to be missed! Also, don't miss Santa Croce here- final resting place of Michelangelo, Galileo, Rossini, Machiavelli, Marconi, etc.

Absolute musts in Rome: Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel (my personal opinion is that the Sistine Chapel looks far better between 10am and noon versus late afternoon); St. John Lateran; Borghese Gallery and Gardens (reservation required for the Gallery and can be done online or over the phone) the gardens are gorgeous; Santa Maria in Trastevere, for its amazing mosaics; Santa Prassede, for its amazing mosaics (especially the Saint Zeno chapel, which also houses an important Christian relic [part of the marble post to which Jesus was bound for his flogging, shortly before his crucifixion]); Largo Argentina/Area Sacra, for its historic importance (site of Caesar's assassination) and its beauty. (don't be surprised to see dozens of cats roaming the site- this is also home to a cat sanctuary); the Colosseum and Palatine/Forum; Piazza Navona; Pantheon (and if you're going to the Pantheon, 100 feet away is the church of Santa Maria sopra Minerva. Worth a visit. Ceiling will blow your mind!)

There is so much more, but those would be the places I wouldn't miss.

You should also consider requesting a Scavi tour.

Buon viaggio! You will love Italy!

I would suggest doing your trip in reverse. Start in Rome and end in Lake Como. In May, this increases the possibility for slightly cooler temps in Rome and Florence (which become blazing hot in summer), and slightly warmer temps at the lake (which can be quite cool). It also has the advantage of putting all your heavy sightseeing at the front of the trip when you are feeling excited, and saving the relaxation for the end of the trip when your feet are tired. You will love Italy. Have fun!

The description of your travel style does not match our style, but I still think what sounds like 6 hotels in 19-20 days is too much.

I would go to Assisi or Orvieto but not both or perhaps neither on this trip. It would be difficult to only stop at Orvieto on the way from Assisi to Rome because there is no official luggage storage at Orvieto. Some people think a local hotel will hold your luggage for a fee, but I have no info on this. There IS luggage storage at the Assisi train station.

Frankly, there is so much to see in Umbria and southern Tuscany that you might just leave this area for a separate, second trip with a car.

I wouldn't add any more destinations (St. Moritz, Cinque Terre, Pompeii, Herculaneum).

Bilboburgler - We often get comments that our trips seem rushed, but compared to others we have taken, this one seems to have a rather leisurely pace in our minds. We are usually up and out by 8 or 9 in the morning and often don't return to our room until 8 or 9 in the evening. I, at least, have greater anxiety about "down time" than about being rushed, though my husband enjoys a somewhat slower pace. Since this may end up being our only trip (at least to northern Italy and Tuscany), we would enjoy having a "taste" of a certain place than not see it at all. If we like we we see, we will be motivated to return!

Thanks for your description of Padua. Would it be realistic to depart Varenna by train about 9 am, arrive Padua about 12:30 pm, tour for a few hours, and then take the train into Venice? Or would it be easier to go directly to Venice and do a day trip to Padua since it is so close?

The boat passage from Padua to Venice looks delightful but since it is lengthy may have to wait for a hoped for return trip that allows a more leisurely pace. Fortunately, we don't drink soft drinks (fizzy drinks) - we gave them up long ago. We also don't drink wine (or other kinds of alcohol), so I am a bit concerned about what we will drink. I am always appalled at being charged the equivalent of several dollars for a bottle of water, which is often carbonated and not to my taste. When we eat out at home, we order ice water, which is delivered in large glasses and refilled constantly - for free. Is plain tap water usually available?

Your suggestion of eating the larger meal at mid-day is a very helpful one. Not only would it save money but many Americans tend to eat dinner much earlier (we usually eat by 6 pm), and we find it difficult to wait until 8:30 - 9 to eat dinner and then try to go to sleep with a full stomach. We hope to stay mostly in apartments, so eating mid-day would allow us to fix something simple for dinner and have the evening to walk around the city, or to relax and journal our day.

Your comment about Ravenna is well taken, although there is something "magical" about seeing something in person something one has seen in books. I still remember 30 years later coming upon The Winged Victory of Samothrace at the Louvre and how it took my breath away. But I agree that Ravenna will probably have to wait. I have checked some cruise itineraries and there are a few that stop near there.

As foreigners you may struggle to get tap water "l'acqua del rubinetto" in the better sort of place but in cheaper places no problem. Ice, well in cheaper places they stick the water in a reuseable glass bottle in the fridge but you normally can order ice. In more expensive places you get ice.

I'd probably go to Venice and come back, but i really like the Colli Euganei and the whole area down to Padua. If it gets hot these little hills are very nice to cool down, while the hills are ringed by walled cities.

"del giorno" of the day often on chalk board, look out as the church bells strike 12:00 (some towns 12:30), you will see workers downing tools and heading towards non-descript bars or even perfectly normal bars in smaller streets, pop your head in a sniff, if it smells good walk in and ask for lunch. You may end up in a large room out the back surrounded by the locals, little choice and the wine (which I understand you don't drink) comes en-vrac in bottles and you may need to pass the wine to others (the wine is not yours, it is the tables) and you may end up sharing the table with the local builders.

"Since this may end up being our only trip (at least to northern Italy and Tuscany)..."

Well, that would be a shame, especially since you're into photography and "natural beauty" but you're missing out on the iconic Tuscan scenery in the Val d'Orcia and Chianti and the beautiful hills and valleys of Umbria.

msteacher - Your comments make sense, especially the part about the tired feet! Our thinking was that it takes a few days for our biological clocks to adjust after we arrive even though we follow the suggestions for preventing and coping with jetlag, so we hope that spending a few days relaxing on Lake Como will allow for the adjustment and we will be more alert for the more intensive sightseeing days. Also, we were using FF miles, so we were at the mercy of what was available (we have friends who just booked to Italy and have to fly out of Vienna!). But we will keep your suggestion in mind for our next trip! Thanks!

Jean - I forgot to add that we live in a very hot climate, so encountering some cool - even chilly weather - on Lake Como would be a welcomed relief. The average temps for Rome in late May/early June are significantly below those where we live. I just hope that they don't have a heat wave, as friends of ours encountered in early June several years ago, when temps were around 100 in Rome!

Sorry, that last post was directed to msteacher again! I shouldn't be writing so late at night!

wekewoody - The trip is 18 days in Italy, plus the days flying in and out. I hadn't really considered doing Orvieto as a day trip from Rome, so your comment was helpful. I suppose if we skip Assisi and go straight to Rome, we could decide once we get there whether we want to fill our days seeing Rome, or wanted to spend a day in Orvieto. We actually hadn't planned to go to Rome at all on this trip as so many cruises begin or end there, we thought we would just add time on to see Rome and southern Italy at the beginning or end of a cruise. But in case the cruise doesn't materialize, we decided to extend our trip from the original 2 weeks and add on Rome.

Jean - It is very helpful to know there is no place to store luggage in Orvieto. That certainly supports the idea of doing it as a day trip from Rome, if we decide to do it at all.

Let me start by saying that your description of your preferred pace of travel sound similar to mine: Although I'm unlikely to be up at the crack of dawn, I'm usually up and about in time to reach sites by the time the open. And then, with an occasional quick break for espresso, I keep going until there is nothing else open to be visited that day. No lunch. And once everything is closed, I walk around a bit if the sun hasn't yet set, or if the sun has already set, I walk around about after dinner. We might still differ in how long we would want to spend visiting any one site: I can spend hours and hours in a good museum, but many people would not. From my perspective:

> Day 6 - Padua to Venice
Day 7 - Venice
Day 8 - Venice (Murano/Burano)
Day 9 - Venice to Florence; half day in Florence

I'm not sure whether that means essentially one day in Venice itself of closer to 2 or even 2.5. From what you've said of your interests (which including roaming, museums, and churches), I would think that you might want at least 2 full days in Venice.

> Day 9 - Venice to Florence; half day in Florence
Day 10-11-12-13 - visit Florence and day trips from Florence ...
Day 14 - Florence to Assisi; stay overnight here, or go on to Orvieto

FWIW, I spent close to 5 full and extremely busy days in Florence itself - not a single day trip. To be clear, I love art and architecture and even with all that time in Florence, there were things I did not have time to see. So I know I'm an outlier, but again, if you are interested in museums and churches, you might want to leave a little more time for Florence.

> Day 16- 17-18-19 - visit Rome

IMO, that would give you time for the highlights, but not much else. And you might need to be selective when choosing your highlights (or at least go in with a good sense of your priorities and how you'll pare your plans if necessary).

> My husband is interested in a day trip to Pompeii but it is long and expensive; I think I would prefer Ostia Antica.... Note that we hope to "do" south of Rome on another trip.

I did visit Ostia Antica, but if you plan to visit southern Italy another time, I'm not sure it makes sense to spend the time or money it would take to include Pompeii in this particular trip.

Hope that helps!

Sorry: I inadvertently posted before editing. Please forgive my typos, etc.! Perhaps the most substantive problem is that I meant to say that I did NOT visit Ostia Antica.

>>>The average temps for Rome in late May/early June are significantly below those where we live.<<<

That may be, but where you live probably has everything air conditioned. That will not be the case in Rome and if there is AC, it won't be like the US. I've been in many places (restaurants, etc.) that don't even turn it on.

There have been several Fodorites report using the hotel in Orvieto to store luggage. I imagine you can find them using the search function. Technically, Assisi doesn't have a train station, it's in Santa Maria degli Angeli. I would want a first hand account that the luggage storage still exists there as several people have reported over the last couple of years it wasn't available. An old post from TA:

**5. Re: Luggage storage in Assisi?
Sep 19, 2011, 6:13 PM
I'm back to give a feedback in case someone still needs it. I went to the station today and there is a luggage storage, but it is apparently closed and not working since months already.
On the maps inside and outside the station it is not shown as service available, and although there is a sign on a door that says "deposito bagagli", that door is closed and the glass is covered with dusty paper so you can't see inside the room.***

Kja - I tend to linger longer in churches and historical/archeological museums/sites, but mostly try to see the just the highlights in art museums. My husband has limited endurance for any of them, so I have to take that into consideration. (I would give up a day in Bellagio but relaxing there is important to him, and this is his trip, too.) Several years ago, after a long tour of England's churches and museums, when we reached Amsterdam my husband and teenaged children refused to do any more, so they sat in the square while I went in.

We are entering retirement and have a lot of places we have had to put off visiting, so we want to see the highlights of the places we visit and hope that we will live long enough to return (and don't run out of money!) We have friends who have visited the places we plan to go to and spent about the same time or less and came away satisfied. I know we could stay longer everywhere and see things in great depth, but will try to see the places that are most highly recommended and appeal to our interests. I do a lot of research and have a clear list of priorities before we go. That said, we do take the comments everyone so graciously takes the time to make and give them serious thought.

Based on suggestions made here, we will likely go straight to Venice from Bellagio, see how much we are able to see and how much we like it (we have friends who didn't like it at all) and do a day trip to Padua if we have time. We will also likely give up Assisi as it takes so long to get there from Florence and from Assisi to Rome. So we will likely go straight from Florence to Rome, and if we have time, take a day trip to Orvieto or Ostia Antica.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I like your new revised plan! You've reduced the number of times you need to pack up and change hotels, while increasing your flexibility for day trips as they coincide with your mood, the weather, etc. Have fun!

After reading several trip reports tonight, I wonder about the possibility of using Lucca as a base for Tuscany rather than Florence. We found some lovely places to stay that were more reasonable than in Florence. However, I do wonder if we would spend too much time on the train going into Florence for day trips, although Pisa and the Cinque Terre would be closer if we decided to go there. Are there many restaurants in Lucca for dinner? We probably won't do this but I think that after spending time in a busy place like Venice with so many tourists, we would enjoy an escape to a smaller town for awhile, especially since we will be going on to Rome. Other suggestions for a hub besides Florence that would allow easy rail connections to Pisa, Lucca, Siena, maybe the CT? I know we could spend days seeing the sights in Florence but we do love wandering around smaller towns!