esmalley007

My girlfriend has never been to Europe and we are planning on going next year, probaly Septemebr. Is this a good time? She is hellbent on Paris so its a must. Here is what I was thinking.

Paris:
Fly into CDG in the morning
2 nights in Paris

Spain:
3 nights in Barcelona (have family there)
3 nights in Madrid (with daytrip to Toledo)
1 night in Granada (alhambra)

Italy:
3 nights in Rome
2 nights in Florence
1 night in Venice.

What do you think? Is this too much in too few days? Please advise or suggest changes on what you would do. In what order should we visit each country and/or city. I have tons of miles so we will probably have open jaw tickets. We plan on going back to Europe but not for a couple of years since we have trips to Peru, Argentina and Brazil planned for 2012.

StCirq

How do you plan to get between countries?

I would do everything possible to add days to Paris, especially as you'll be jet-lagged on Day 1. You'll hardly have any time at all to see anything before zooming off to Spain.

Personally, I'd skip Madrid and add those days to Paris, but I'm not a fan of Madrid. Plenty of people are.

I also think you're shortchanging yourself with only one night in Venice.

If you could eliminate one country, you'd have a more interesting, less frantic trip, IMO. Remember, every time you unpack and move to another location it eats into the time you could be enjoying Europe...by a lot!

StuDudley

Oh Boy - another "if it is Tuesday it must be ......."

Two comments:

1. IMO, that is too many destinations in too short of a time

2. That is too many big/large cities all-in-a-row

You really only have:
- 1 1/2 days in Paris
- 2 1/2 days in Barcelona
- 1 3/4 days in Madrid
- 3/4 day in Toledo
- 3/4 day in Granada
- 2 1/4 days in Rome
- 1 1/2 days in Florence
- 3/4 day in Venice

I would try to find a little "quiet countryside" in there somewhere - perhaps Tuscany???

Stu Dudley

CathyM

I agree with StCirq - as much as it may hurt to give up a country you will be much happier. I totally understand the temptation to see as much as possible in a short time but when you look back you'll probably wish you had stopped to relax during your vacation. (I learned the hard way with a 6 country, 3.5 week trip back in 1999 so I really do understand).

Your entire first day in Paris will be jetlagged and also most of the morning spent at the airport and getting to your hotel. So, really only one day for Paris. I'd advise at least 5 nights in Barcelona, especially since 1/2 day at least will be spent getting from Paris to Barcelona (assuming you're flying) and beccause you have family in Barcelona. Madrid really deserves 4 nights at a minimum - perhaps enough time for daytrips to Toledo & Segovia. I'd advise at least 2 nights in Granada - particularly since this will ony really equate to 1.5 days with travel time factored in. 3 nights in Rome is barely enough time since you'll loose at least 1/2 day getting there from Spain. 2 nights in Florence would be my personal bare minimum and 1 night in Venice is so short.

jent103

A few thoughts - in short, yes, I think you'd be better served to cut a place or two (and I travel pretty quickly).

1. Two nights in Paris at the beginning of a trip when you're jetlagged is not much time at ALL. Your post sounds like you don't care about it one way or the other - will your girlfriend be content with just saying she's been there, or does she actually want to see the main sights? Remember, your first day, you'll have to deal with getting from CDG into town, finding your hotel, checking in and getting your bearings.

2. I think you'd be better off reworking your Spanish itinerary. The only flight I found from Granada to Rome (whichbudget.com) connected through Barcelona, so it would take you a good chunk of that day. You might fly from Paris to Madrid, see Madrid, take the train to Granada (4.5 hours - I doubt it's reasonable to see the Alhambra the same day and spend only one night there, but others can better advise you), and then fly to Barcelona. Then you can more easily catch a direct flight to Rome. *I'm no Spanish expert, so others may have better ideas, but your current plans don't really seem doable logistically.*

3. Two nights in Florence would suit me fine, but you really only have two full days in Rome and just half a day in Venice. Will that allow you to see what *you* want to see?

bobthenavigator

Far too much !
Do Paris and Italy or Paris and Spain--not all 3.
And, look at travel times before you decide.

esmalley007

I was thinking of using the high speed trains where available or discount airlines between countries such as easyjet and ryanair.

You might be right on skipping some places. I have family in Paris and Barcelona. Maybe I should do Paris, Barcelona and Italy. Or is Granada a must?

november_moon

Just a general piece of advice - when your girlfriend is hell-bent on something, such as going to Paris, go to Paris and actually spend some time there. You'll be a much happier man

If this were my trip, I'd stick to 2 countries - probably France and Spain. Italy can be its own trip later on. You'll probably be going back to Europe in a couple years anyway, so you definitely don't need to over reach on this trip.

StuDudley

>>Or is Granada a must<<

There are hundreds of destinations in Italy and France that many people would say are "a must". I am not as familiar with Spain. However, you can't see them all on one trip. Concentrate on REALLY enjoying just a few places.

Stu Dudley

esmalley007

I'm going to suggest going to Paris and Spain. We can always do Italy in the future, maybe with Greece.

Any day tips or side trips I should consider while in Paris?

Thank you all for the really quick responses by the way! I just found this site yesterday and its becoming addictive!

StCirq

Whether or not you do daytrips from Paris depends on how many days you plan to spend there. At a bare minimum, I would allot 5 days to Paris - even then you'll just be skimming the surface. If you have a full week or more, there are dozens and dozens of great daytrips to choose from (all of them thoroughly covered in posts here - a search will bring them up).

annhig

by my reckoning, you have 15 nights, and at the moment 7 destinations - at an average of 2 nights [which usually equates to 1 day] per place.

so you are very wise to have started to cut this down, but I would advise you to cut it down much further. you sound as if you are quite young, and although 2012 may be mapped out, there's always 2013,2014...

also, I haven't heard open jaw flights mentioned yet. that's where you fly into one place and out of the other, but it doesn't cost [much] more than a normal return ticket. in this case,I'd suggest flying into Barcelona, then getting the train/internal flight to Granada [a must see, IMHO] then a train to Seville, and then fly to Paris. if you give 5 night sot each of Barcelona, and Paris, that gives you 5 nights between Seville and Granada, which is just about enough.

i would leave Italy to another year when you can devote yourselves to it.

jent103

annhig, esmalley actually did mention open jaw tickets toward the end of his post. So they've got that down.

I'm glad you're cutting this down. Paris and Spain would be good, or you could do Paris/Barcelona/Rome if you really like big cities... just not everything in the original plan!

I do agree with annhig's suggestion of Seville. Some friends really enjoyed a day trip to Toledo from Madrid but I haven't been myself.

esmalley007

Yes, I am planning on doing an open jaw. Arriving in either BCN or CDG and departing from the other since these are direct flight to/from Miami. I have about 300k AA miles so I should be good.

I am 31 and my girlfriend is 26, so hopefully more travels to come!

I agree that Italy should be a 2 week trip by itself.

StuDudley

>>I agree that Italy should be a 2 week trip by itself.<<

Three!!

- 4 nights Amalfi coast
- 5 nights Rome
- 4 nights Tuscany countryside near Pienza. Orvieto, Montalcino, Montepulciano,
- 1-2 nights Siena
- 2 nights San Gimignano. Volterra, Chianti countryside
- 2 nights Florence - 3 if you are into art.
- 4 nights Venice.

This isn't even scrathing the surface.

Stu Dudley

lifelist

Agree with the rest - not enough time in Paris, defer Italy to a later trip. I'd just do France and Spain. There's an overnight train between Paris and Barcelona, as well as, a high-speed line. If you take the overnight train, you can save yourself a hotel night - jump on the train at 8 p.m., and wake up in Barcelona at 9 a.m. Or, vice versa.

I'd do Paris first, then Spain second just to try and avoid the hot weather in Spain.

nytraveler

You have one country too many - and will spend a huge amount of your time in train stations and/or airports - or on trains or planes - getting from one place to another (you have not allowed any time for this in your itinerary). to get form one city to the next will take from 1/2 to 1 day - depending on distance and scheduling.

So for the itinerary you have you need to allow about 6 of your 16 days to just moving around. (You can;t count the day you land - jetlagged - or the day you leave - since most flights are early in the day).

Definitely add at least 3 days to Paris - and then pick either spain or Italy - and see a little bit of it. Don;t you want time for cafe sitting, going out at night, having a relaxed dinner, strolling back to your hotel afterwards through floodlit squares with splashing fountains. With your itinerary there is NO time for that - you would just be racing off to the next city.

If it were me I would do Paris and Italy - since Madrid is not one of my favorites and while Italy can still be quite hot that time of year Spain can be hell (as in 100 and humid).

danon

"Spain can be hell (as in 100 and humid)."
Depends where in Spain and when in Sept..
I was in Northern Spain and Barcelona second part of Sept... the weather was very nice.

Egbert

Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, Seville and Granada. Plan a separate trip to Italy. Seville is a "must see" for at least 3 nights if not 4.

CathyM

With only 15 nights you could easily visit just Paris, Madrid & Barcelona. This would be a good trip - enough time to see a good deal of these cities without too much rushing and also enjoy time with family in Barcelona. Also enough time for daytrips. If you had another 5-6 nights I'd add Seville & Granada - I just don't see how you'd squeeze this all into 15 nights.