Anyone else think the Alhambra is overrated??
Jun 26th, 2009, 06:58 PM
#1
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Anyone else think the Alhambra is overrated??
We were in Granada las April and were so excited to see the Alhambra. It was very interesting, but after 5 minutes in the Nasrid Palace I was ready to move on. It reminded me of how Islam treats women. There were rooms where only men could go and rooms where the women were kept. Everything is decorated with geometric shapes. Islam does not allow any human images. I thought is was a 2 instead of a 5.
Jun 26th, 2009, 07:12 PM
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I could have happily stayed in the Alhambra for even longer than I did. Not only did I find it extremely beautiful, but the appeal to all of the senses (except taste) was so intense. I love the sensory immersion and the plans for the gardens. Calligraphy is also a part of the decoration, and of course "geometric shapes" can include an enormous variety, as happens here. And differences in architecture which are due to history and culture are something that I find very interesting.
So, no, I didn't find it overrated, but naturally everyone has a different perspective.
So, no, I didn't find it overrated, but naturally everyone has a different perspective.
Jun 26th, 2009, 07:13 PM
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I have an aversion for popular tourist sites, but I think the Alhambra, is one of the rare cases where it worthwhile. I think the Islamic design demosntrates what is noble about the culture, simple on the outside grandiose on the inside, the way a human should be. And the Genealife was spectacular as well.
We usually stay in cheap clean places, but one trip to Spain, I made many calls until secured a room at the parador at the Alhambra. The view of the gardens and the snow covered mountains from our balcony were worth the extra money.
We usually stay in cheap clean places, but one trip to Spain, I made many calls until secured a room at the parador at the Alhambra. The view of the gardens and the snow covered mountains from our balcony were worth the extra money.
Jun 26th, 2009, 07:16 PM
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I was there in 2000 and in my diary noted: "we started with a visit to Alhambra, a magnificent example of Moorish architecture with subsequent overtones of Christian influences. On the whole the Muslim segment is by far the best. Some of it is truly beautiful and the pattern can be traced through to many parts of India; Delhi, Agra, Jaipur and so on."
You do need an open mind to appreciate these places.
You do need an open mind to appreciate these places.
Jun 26th, 2009, 07:21 PM
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No, not at all.
I had high, I mean VERY high expectation before I went.
And it exceeded my expectation.
I have said this here before, and I'll say it again. On my 12-day trip to Spain last year, even if I hadn't seen anything else but the Alhambra, it still would have been a worthwhile trip for me.
I still remember my first sight of the Gate of Justice as I walked up the path to the Alhambra. It took my breath away.
The Lions were gone under restoration, but the Nasrid Palace was still incredibly impressive.
Perhaps because I had read Washington Irving's <i>Tales of the Alhambra</i> before my trip, it made the palace magical. It came alive for me as I imagined all those people and princesses who lived here in the past.
Sorry you felt otherwise.
I had high, I mean VERY high expectation before I went.
And it exceeded my expectation.
I have said this here before, and I'll say it again. On my 12-day trip to Spain last year, even if I hadn't seen anything else but the Alhambra, it still would have been a worthwhile trip for me.
I still remember my first sight of the Gate of Justice as I walked up the path to the Alhambra. It took my breath away.
The Lions were gone under restoration, but the Nasrid Palace was still incredibly impressive.
Perhaps because I had read Washington Irving's <i>Tales of the Alhambra</i> before my trip, it made the palace magical. It came alive for me as I imagined all those people and princesses who lived here in the past.
Sorry you felt otherwise.
Jun 26th, 2009, 07:59 PM
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I saw it for the first time in the 80s, and again 2 years ago ( day and night).
Although I think it is definitely worth a visit,there are other places I fined more beautiful, moving , or magical.
Although I think it is definitely worth a visit,there are other places I fined more beautiful, moving , or magical.
Jun 26th, 2009, 08:03 PM
#8
Absolutely not.
"<i>It reminded me of how Islam treats women. There were rooms where only men could go and rooms where the women were kept</i>" To follow that logic, you'd have to skip the Tower of London or Hampton Court Palace because Henry VIII treated his wives shabbily
IMO it is magnificent . . . .
"<i>It reminded me of how Islam treats women. There were rooms where only men could go and rooms where the women were kept</i>" To follow that logic, you'd have to skip the Tower of London or Hampton Court Palace because Henry VIII treated his wives shabbily
IMO it is magnificent . . . .
Jun 26th, 2009, 09:09 PM
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Underated?!!!
No, an absolute highlight for me.
The carved ceilings, the interplay of light and shade, the cool splash of water in the inner garden, the feeling of seclusion, the enchanting carving, the equisite bee hived shape and airiness of the rooms - it exceeded all expectations.
No, an absolute highlight for me.
The carved ceilings, the interplay of light and shade, the cool splash of water in the inner garden, the feeling of seclusion, the enchanting carving, the equisite bee hived shape and airiness of the rooms - it exceeded all expectations.
Jun 26th, 2009, 10:51 PM
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I claim to be no expert neither on Islam nor on Spanish/Moorish history, but :
Even if you don't specifically like it (which you are perfectly entitled to, IMO), the Alhambra represents the end of one of the most exciting eras on the European continent.
It is, by the way, not in general forbidden to display humans in Islam (actually, it does not only apply to humans but to living creatures in general) - but you find different opinions and examples for strict to relaxed application of this rule.
You can say that very few to hardly any mosques display paintings of living creatures (so only plants or geometrical patterns), but when a palace (or other private buildings) is following this guideline very strictly, it tells you that the monarch (or the sponsor of that building) of that time had a more conservative view on his religion.
And the use of geometrical pattern in mathematical precision also tells you who played one leading role in mathematics or in almost any science at that time in Europe (not necessarily in Granada, but for example in Toledo).
Tolerance and equal rights for men and women is, of course, a tricky subject, not only when you look at the 14th or 15th century. Given the general moral or ethical standards of those times, the Moorish monarchs and their reign was usually far from present day Muslim fanatics like the Taliban. Or any religious fanatics, by the way.
It may be interesting that only days after the Alhambra had been reclaimed by the Christian Kings as the final step of the reconquista in 1492, a royal decree was signed right at the Alhambra that expelled all the Jews from the now again "Muslim-free" Spain. And which led, aside from personal sufferings, to a major brain-drain of European science and knowledge. While someone else set sails to discover a passage to India and discovered.. well, you probably know that part of history better than me.
So for me, the Alhambra is a bit more than just a nice palace and garden in a spectacular setting but also a memorial for a very unique time in European history. Probably the only one I can remember from the top of my head when different religions and ethnic groups not only had to share the same territory but also achieved major steps in technology, science, and trade together.
Even if you don't specifically like it (which you are perfectly entitled to, IMO), the Alhambra represents the end of one of the most exciting eras on the European continent.
It is, by the way, not in general forbidden to display humans in Islam (actually, it does not only apply to humans but to living creatures in general) - but you find different opinions and examples for strict to relaxed application of this rule.
You can say that very few to hardly any mosques display paintings of living creatures (so only plants or geometrical patterns), but when a palace (or other private buildings) is following this guideline very strictly, it tells you that the monarch (or the sponsor of that building) of that time had a more conservative view on his religion.
And the use of geometrical pattern in mathematical precision also tells you who played one leading role in mathematics or in almost any science at that time in Europe (not necessarily in Granada, but for example in Toledo).
Tolerance and equal rights for men and women is, of course, a tricky subject, not only when you look at the 14th or 15th century. Given the general moral or ethical standards of those times, the Moorish monarchs and their reign was usually far from present day Muslim fanatics like the Taliban. Or any religious fanatics, by the way.
It may be interesting that only days after the Alhambra had been reclaimed by the Christian Kings as the final step of the reconquista in 1492, a royal decree was signed right at the Alhambra that expelled all the Jews from the now again "Muslim-free" Spain. And which led, aside from personal sufferings, to a major brain-drain of European science and knowledge. While someone else set sails to discover a passage to India and discovered.. well, you probably know that part of history better than me.
So for me, the Alhambra is a bit more than just a nice palace and garden in a spectacular setting but also a memorial for a very unique time in European history. Probably the only one I can remember from the top of my head when different religions and ethnic groups not only had to share the same territory but also achieved major steps in technology, science, and trade together.
Jun 26th, 2009, 11:58 PM
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Islam does not allow human images, but there are human images painted on the ceiling of Kings' Hall (by the Court of Lions). The Palace of Charles V is an exceptional example of Renaissance architecture. Once again, the christian addition helped preserve the moorish buildings.
Jun 27th, 2009, 06:31 AM
#16
Overrated - not to me. I saw the Alhambra first in 1970, but when I finally made it back to Spain in 2006, it was the one absolute must-see on my list. And I was not disappointed.
I think it helps to do the evening tour of the Nasrid Palace - very few, very quiet people, and the atmosphere as darkness falls and the lights come on across the valley is magical. And I love to see how water was used in the Generalife.
On the issue of women's rights, I'm afraid you'd have a hard time finding anywhere in the world at that time, or for several centuries afterwards, where women were enjoying anything approaching equal rights! And isn't experiencing how others live one reason to travel? If you're going to avoid places because the people who used to live there didn't treat others the way we think is right today, there are very few places you'll be comfortable!
I totally agree with Cowboy's eloquent statement on toleration in Islamic Spain - shortly to be followed by the Inquisition when the Christians took over! It's very sad that things have changed so much. Periods when different religions are able to co-exist seem to be exceptionally productive, both intellectually and artistically - Norman Sicily is another example.
I think it helps to do the evening tour of the Nasrid Palace - very few, very quiet people, and the atmosphere as darkness falls and the lights come on across the valley is magical. And I love to see how water was used in the Generalife.
On the issue of women's rights, I'm afraid you'd have a hard time finding anywhere in the world at that time, or for several centuries afterwards, where women were enjoying anything approaching equal rights! And isn't experiencing how others live one reason to travel? If you're going to avoid places because the people who used to live there didn't treat others the way we think is right today, there are very few places you'll be comfortable!
I totally agree with Cowboy's eloquent statement on toleration in Islamic Spain - shortly to be followed by the Inquisition when the Christians took over! It's very sad that things have changed so much. Periods when different religions are able to co-exist seem to be exceptionally productive, both intellectually and artistically - Norman Sicily is another example.
Jun 27th, 2009, 08:01 AM
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There is a lot of confusion here; the Mezquita in Cordoba is formerly a mosque, a religious building; whilst the Alhambra is a fortress-palace, a residence and leisure gardens. You simply cannot compare them, though you may like most one over the other.
The prohibition of depicting the human form moved the artisans towards the representation of natural or geometrical patterns based on mathematical equations related to pythagoras theorem, root four and root five, plus the very much decorated calligraphy; but the human form was represented, there are many miniatures and tile panels as far as Persia. Only the face of prophet Muhammad was never depicted.
About the so-talked tolerance, it is another myth. Christian and jews were, at best, in servitude, and heavily taxed. And this only during certain periods. In others, they were prosecuted and forced to slavery. Celebrated Cordoban jewish phillosopher Maimonides (b. 1135) had to feign conversion and flee to Morocco.
The prohibition of depicting the human form moved the artisans towards the representation of natural or geometrical patterns based on mathematical equations related to pythagoras theorem, root four and root five, plus the very much decorated calligraphy; but the human form was represented, there are many miniatures and tile panels as far as Persia. Only the face of prophet Muhammad was never depicted.
About the so-talked tolerance, it is another myth. Christian and jews were, at best, in servitude, and heavily taxed. And this only during certain periods. In others, they were prosecuted and forced to slavery. Celebrated Cordoban jewish phillosopher Maimonides (b. 1135) had to feign conversion and flee to Morocco.
Jun 27th, 2009, 08:02 AM
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WTF?! Overrated?
Wow. Never thought I'd read something like that. The craftsmanship, the intricate carving and details, the lighting, the soothing and cooling water, the astounding man-made beauty.
Overrated? To each his own, to each his own....
Wow. Never thought I'd read something like that. The craftsmanship, the intricate carving and details, the lighting, the soothing and cooling water, the astounding man-made beauty.
Overrated? To each his own, to each his own....
