StCirq

<<We are in no rush, so taking more scenic routes is something we plan on doing. >>

But with only 12 days to get back to Paris, yes, you ARE in a rush, though I don't think you realize it. You are especially in a rush if you insist on driving from Paris to Marseille. Your outline of how you travel, on scenic roads, staying a few nights in each place in centrally located hotels, etc., does not comport with the schedule you seem to have.

Throwing Turin into the mix just because someone you know was there and had good things to say about it borders on the too-random school of travel and certainly throws a wrench into your plans. It would be like planning a trip from San Francisco to San Diego and having friends tell you they really enjoyed Milwaukee, so off you go.

Your French plans are already fairly up in the air and unformed. I wouldn't complicate them by adding in an Italian city that a) isn't close by, b) is nice but not in the Top Ten or whatever of attractions in Italy, and c) requires special car insurance and a decent knowledge of the rules of the road in Italy, including the ZTLs

AJPeabody

Your motives are good, your logistics not so much. It is the "kid in the candy store" phenomenon. Everything looks so wonderful that the kid must have everything. Result: tummy ache. Trying to see everything in a country puts a traveler into the same situation. If you try to see everything, you will see so little of anything that you get a figurative tummy ache.

I suggest you look at a few guidebooks, then take a piece of paper, list the places you really and truly have to see. Next to each place, list the logistical overhead of getting to and being there. Drive or fly or train to location (how long will that take?), find and check into hotel (an hour?), find food, eat, etc. The remaining time in the place is what you will have to see it. One technique for this that I have used is to find an (ugh) packaged guided tour that includes the region you are interested in. Look at the daily detailed itinerary and notice how little time is actually sightseeing (and remember that "see" or "view" in package speak means drive by, "visit" is a short skim, and "tour" is what you really want to go there for). And this is with all travel and hotels and transport arranged for you. You cannot do it as efficiently yourself in places you have never been.

That exercise will lead to a more practical plan. The people who post here love to help on this sort of thing. Do some very pleasant homework, make a few tentative but specific goals, and let us see what you come up with. We will help smooth out the rough spots, help you avoid pitfalls (e.g. Turin) and get you a trip that will make you both happy and satisfied.

Happy travels!

Coquelicot

With 12 days, I wouldn't go much farther south than the Loire.

After Paris I'd drive through Normandy, north and south of the Seine. Normandy is a fairly large region and has varied scenery. There's much more to it than the WWII landing beaches. I'd spend time in Brittany, seeing Mont Saint Michel on the way. I'd pick a chateau or two or three in the Loire, maybe driving as far south as Loches and Montresor and Chedigny. Then I'd head back to Paris by a different route, going through another part of Normandy.

We really like the French countryside but my husband balked at how much driving we used to do, so now we focus on smaller areas and what I described above would be a fairly leisurely driving trip. My basic advice is don’t try to cram in too much. You’ll find things to enjoy in between what you expect to be the trip’s high points.

I second visiting some of the Plus Beaux Villages, each of which is typical of its region's architecture. In summer and fall we also look for Villes/Villages Fleuris--the 4-flower villages are spectacular. We look up the weekly markets so we know what's where when. Before the trip my husband looks for restaurants and I find potential B&Bs for us.

Why drive? Because you're in control of your schedule and your routes, and driving is most of the time a pleasure in France. The roads are good and, once you’re off the autoroutes and N roads, they go interesting places. They dip down to rivers and curve around hills. They go by orchards, grassy pastures with grazing cattle, panoramas, chateaus, and stone manor houses.

I love rural France. I know it’s not for everybody and not for most people’s first visit to France. But once visitors get the highlights of France out of the way, they can appreciate the smaller things, like market day in a village where most of the shoppers greet old friends with a kiss or a handshake. You can stand in line at a boulangerie and see regulars ahead of you being handed their baguette before they even say what they want. You can experience waiting in line for ages at the post office, but then when it’s your turn, you are given all the time you need. We notice how well-behaved most kids are, and how attentive their parents and grandparents are.

I think I wrote too much! Can you tell I’m planning our next trip to France?

Underhill

Ah, Turin...the city of night. We were taken out to dinner one night at 11 p.m., and the city was still full of people (and cars!).

sf7307

AlessandraZoe

I am certainly on board with many of my fellow board posters. Right now, we seem to be seeing the travel planning version of "we're on this specific mission" with a "look! a squirrel!" thrown in.

My dear, please FOCUS. If you want to do Italy, DO IT. I loved Milan and Turin. Both towns are very different from the rest of Italy. Is that what you want to do? Then just scrap your previous plans and move on.

I see nothing wrong with your original plan--a few more days in Paris than you've done in the past, and then moving on for an experience in gritty Marseilles with ventures in the surrounding area. Heck, I'd go to Marseilles just to see the bar featured in one of my favorite movies, "Love Actually." But I'd fly it, train it, whatever to reduce transport times so you are not driving just to drive. I'll never forget how I was trying to plan rail from Paris to Nice when dear Rex (blast from the past) said, "You do realize you could just fly there for less via Orly."

I sound critical. I am not. I, like others, all just want you to concentrate on your travel experience goals AND on your most desired travel destinations.

Happy planning--even though it's hard at this stage,
AZ



We want you to choose what you want to do--but we also want to make your journey and your dollars work.

MorningMist

While it may seem that we are newbies to European travel, we are not, so if I have given off that impression, I apologize. We have been to various places in Europe over the last 15 years, many during the summer months and some either in the spring or fall. We rent a car and drive in virtually all of our vacations as we enjoy being on our schedule and driving really has given us the flexibility that trains and planes cannot. The only times we have used rail or planes is when we were not allowed to travel into eastern European countries with our rental car (that was a few years ago; maybe things have changed), when the drop off charges were very expensive or distances between two destinations were too great.

We have found through our years of planning vacations that a desired plan at the outset almost always leads to the discovery of other places to visit, so that is why I was asking about Turin. We have been to Italy a number of times, but never as northwest as Turin, so when a friend came back from her business trip, she said she adored Turin and it is a place that I would love. After doing my own research, I have to agree, but because we do not have the time to do both Marseilles and Turin, I think experiencing two different culture and countries in one trip, as we have done before, should be interesting and fun.

Just so you know, I am not insulted in the least and not taking anything personally at some of your harsher 'tones'. It has actually helped me focus and find a plan that suits us well.

Without having the days numbered just yet, we are planning for a trip of about 16 days and we will fly into Paris in mid July, spend some time, then rent a car, and drive south to Lyon, stopping along the way (we do not know where yet). After Lyon, we will take a train to Turin (drop off charges are just too high for a Paris/Turin car rental), where we will spend time and also rent a car for a few days to explore the Piedmont area.

Details to follow

Thanks everyone. You have all really been a huge help.

Heidi

Leely2

I was in Marseille almost 12 (!) years ago and really enjoyed the city during my brief visit. I have always wanted to return. For what it's worth, it felt markedly different than the other parts of France I've visited.

I was in Torino two years ago and loved it. A bit of a French vibe, actually, . In any case, I stayed in the Hotel NH Collection Piazza Carlina and recommend it highly:

https://www.nh-hotels.it/hotel/nh-co...piazza-carlina

MorningMist

What a beautiful hotel. Thank you for the recommendation. The more I research Turin, the more excited I am to visit it.