15 days Switzerland - too long?
 

Hi experienced travelers :)

We are heading to Switzerland mid-June to celebrate my husband's big birthday and here's how we've organized our trip!

June 21 depart US
June 22 arrive Zurich spend the night
June 23 short ride up to Schwarzdalp
June 24 start our hut to hut hike to Grindelwald.
June 25 hike to Wengen
June 26 extra day in Wengen - we are taking the train today to Jungfraujoch
June 27 hike to Obersteinberg inn
June 28 hike to Murren (our hut to hut hiking ends today evening)
June 29 train to Schilthorn - back to Murren for the night
June 30 Murren - just to relax and take a stroll through to Gimmelwald and back.
July 1 to Luzern
July 2 Luzern - cogwheel Pilatus
July 3 to Zurich
July 4 home.

I know I"m missing out on Geneva and Bern - probably more for Gruyeres that looks so cute near Geneva or in Geneva, can't recollect now where exactly it is located. I know we are missing out driving Switzerland perhaps...but are we spending too much time in this country and should we maybe cut out luzern etc and try to hop across to Lake Como in Italy or do Vienna in Austria - I've always wanted to do Hallstat in Salzburg...any thoughts?!

thanks so much!

With your current Swiss plans no Swiss Pass would be of interest to you-but a Half-Fare Card which gets 50% off everything that moves in Switzerland probably would -50% off the Jungfraujoch train pays alone for much of the pass (valid for 30 days)-buy it at any Swiss train station upon arrival.

There's no train to Schilthorn but a very long gondola ride - since you are hikers why not hike down -very pretty with great views the whole way.

for lots on Swiss trains check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Is Zurich a destination or an overnight city you thought was obligatory for no other reason?

Looking at your interest in hiking and other places, your affinity to Zurich is not clear. Unless your flight into Zurich is super late you can travel straight to pretty much anywhere in Switzerland upon land and even arriving at accommodations before you can check-in. Also unless your departure from Zurich is super early, you can stay in Luzern until the morning of the departure. There are frequent trains from Luzern to Zurich. This frees up two nights without sacrificing much, if any at all.

You "could have" gone to Italy or Austria in more rational manner by not doing round trip flight to Zurich, but do multi-city into Italy/Austria and return from Switzerland or vice versa. If you have already bought round trip air tickets to ZRH, you have boxed yourself in and it is too late. You can still zip to Austria or Italy upon landing at ZRH if your ZRH arrival is early. What it does is to take advantage of the time you cannot check-in to your accommodation, time to kill, into time to travel far.

Nope haven't bought my air tickets yet, but yes the thinking was Zurich as the entry/exit point that's about it! From SF I'm thinking just getting to Zurich alone will be about 1-2 stops plus 10-14 hours?! We never get "good" flights living on that side of the coast :) So after arriving in Zurich...I don't know that we would want to zip across to Austria or Italy for a night or two? we like cities too...we like hiking, cities, countryside...open to all of it. Just looking at the itinerary I think it's fairly relaxed and gives us a great sense of Switzerland...but...feel tempted to hop to another country..maybe i need to just learn to be okay with slowing it down :)

Unless we skipped Luzern at the end and then that would free up about 2-3 nights to maybe hop to another country...debating...

June 25 hike to Wengen>

Two routes I would consider - walk up to Kleine Scheidegg then take wide track that mountain bikes even go over gently sloping the whole way to Wengen. Consdier walking down from here after doing the Jungfraujoch train - l did and it took just a couple of joyful hours- again a gradually descending trail.

Or straight from Grindelwald to The Mannlichen - celebrated viewpoint then really steeply down to Wengen. Going up to The Mannlichen is also a bit less steep.

The Mannlichen-Kl Scheidegg Ridge Walk is probably the most popular hike or really stroll in the whole Jungfrau area- it offers views over both the Grindelwald amphitheatre and Lauterbrunnen Valley. There is a gondola Mannlichen to Wengen.

As a rule, I think taking public transportation while in Switzerland makes MUCH more sense than trying to drive while there! JMO.

From your title, it sounds like you are wondering whether 15 days is too much for Switzerland? I spent a full month there, and my biggest challenge was deciding what I would skip. You might find some useful information in my trip report:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...any-thanks.cfm

Enjoy!

Stick to Switzerland. You'll love it and feel you have really visited after seeing the mountains that you came to see really well. Sounds great . Enjoy !

If you cut out one overnight stay in Zurich, you could add an overnight stay in Grindwald, and use it to take a hike that isn't on your point-to-point trek, or, if you have bad weather, to make a daytrip to Bern. You could also use that day as your possible Jungfraujoch trip, if the weather is nice (then use your Wengen day for something else, like hiking from Schnygge Platte to First). We did 15 nights in Switzerland last June, spending a week in Wengen, and the weather was really uncooperative (unusually so, apparently). Those hikes you have planned in that area will not be nearly as satisfying as they could be if you are making them in weather such that you can't see much of your surroundings.

Zurich airport - Schwarzwaldalp:
3 1/2 hrs train and bus journey. Departures every hr from 5.40am until 13.47

Be aware that weather is always unpredictable in the Alps and that rainy days cannot be excluded. Have a plan B for these days.

The hikes from Stechelberg to Obersteinberg and from there to Murren (via Gimmelwald, BTW) are rather short.

I don't think that Schilthorn will bring you any additional value after Grosse Scheideg, Kleine Scheidegg and Jungfraujoch.

I don't think that Schilthorn will bring you any additional value after Grosse Scheideg, Kleine Scheidegg and Jungfraujoch.>

My subjective take is that I enjoyed Schilthorn/Piz Gloria as much as anything in Jungfrau Region - it's very different - in part I like it because James Bond's On Her Majesty's Service was in large part filmed there.

Switzerland is one of the most expensive places on Earth - so is 15 days too much for your budget?

But at least hiking a lot cuts down expenses as there is little to spend money on while hiking.

Restaurants are really pricey -maybe try for self-catering accomms?

My experience with Switzerland is that the longer you stay, the cheaper it is. So, rather than make several short forays into Switzerland as part of other trips, I think you do better financially to take one big bite.

June 23 short ride up to Schwarzdalp>

From where - Grindelwald or Meiringen? The Grindelwald Bus links both to Schwarzdalp.

From Zurich you could go by train Interlaken-Ost to Meiringen (or take lake boats there) - a cute little town with a Sherlock Holmes Museum in a teensy-weeny small chapel in the town center.

Then take the bus or walk from Meringen to nearby Reichenbach Falls- a huge water cascade where Sherlock Holmes and nemesis Dr Moriarity tangled on a belvedere overlooking the middle of the falls.

You can hike on path up there or take the antique funicular - pick up bus or walk on to Schwarzdalp.

You could go via Grindelwald and then bus but you will go over that route in your hike to Grindelwald- and the train or boat ride on Lake Brienz is awesome as are the falls.

Maybe you were planning to do this but if not consider it.

I walked one day from Grindelwald up to Grosse Scheidegg and then down by Schwarzalp - gorgeous meadows and valley - to Reichenbach Falls and Meiringen.

Outstanding walk - good choice!

Too long?

Absolutely not!

Personally, we loved Schilthorn/Piz Gloria and especially delighted in the views of the other mountains from it - Eiger, Jungfrau and Monk if I remember correctly. Eating out may be expensive but a rosti on the top of one of these mountains is not going to break the budget and should not be missed.

http://helsieshappenings.blogspot.co...itzerland.html


http://helsieshappenings.blogspot.co...itzerland.html

For better or worse, I had little interest in visiting Jungfraujoch, and so skipped it.

I loved the views from Schilthorn.

Nice photos Helsie :)

Jungfraujoch and Schilthorn are completely different excursions - I've taken both and loved each one -if time do both.

July 2 Luzern - cogwheel Pilatus>

I believe Swiss Pass this year covers that in full -not sure but think I read that. Saves a lot over 50% off.

and all the times I've been in Lucerne -many times - Pilatus has often been enshrouded in clouds - keep flexible - take a nice boat cruise if it is or consider Mt Rigi - not very high but a famous lookout place over all of central Switzerland - boat to Vitznau -train to Rigi Kulm - summit - all covered by a Swiss Pass.

omg you guys are absolutely awesome! Thank you for all your posts!!! The suggestions are terrific!!!

Okay i think i will stick to Switzerland - we are also the type who like to soak it in so don't see the point of rushing it. And I pretty much fall in love with great views and ANY European city/quaint village very easily and could spend hours in one of those places. :)

Excellent point about the weather - i DO need a backup don't I for those days...yes I've been warned about weather top of Jungfraujoch and Schilthorn but I think I have enough days built into Murren and Wengen to hopefully catch these two on a good day - fingers crossed.

Yes getting the Swiss pass for these rides..

I think I want to do BOTH Schilthorn and Jungfraujoch and am ready to splurge to eat up top one or both of these places! Jungfraujoch I heard there is a glacier walk after which you come to a little hut and they serve u some pretty good food in that hut - sounds intriguing.

PalenQ the ride to Schwarzdalp is via Meiringen. I will check out the town and perhaps that walk you mentioned - don't think I was going to do was just going to bus it up to Schwarzdalp mountain inn and begin the hike next day to Grindelwald. Considering Sherlock Holmes season 2 is here maybe i should pay a visit to that viewpoint :) And thank you for the suggestion on Wengen hike will look into it sounds lovely!



@twk omg i can only imagine how those hikes would be in bad weather...trust me i hiked for 3 out of 5 days in bad weather in Chile's Patagonia and while i was very well equipped for the snow/hail - it was...let's just say I would have preferred the sunny skies :) So okay let me rethink that Zurich overnight plan too and think about Bern etc...some backups.


@KJA omg your trip report is magnificent. Makes me want to do Switzerland for a month too! I want to do Gruyeres and that chocolate factory and Gstaad too! Amongst all the other things you did. Wow. Yeah 15 days isn't a whole lot now that i think about it :) Maybe i'm hiking too much...if i hiked less i could see more places. hmm.

@Helsie lovely pics indeed!

I'm wondering if I should go toward end of June - start June 30th and do like until July 15th. Maybe weather will be better? Again who knows these days - those dreaded words 'unusually bad weather at this time' might just crop up even in July.

Lots of thinking to do....

I'm glad you enjoyed my trip report -- it was a magnificent trip!

IME, no matter how long you are able to spend in Switzerland, it won't be enough and you won't be able to see everything you'd like. ;-) If you are still avid hikers, I must admit that I'm not sure it would make sense to limit your hiking time unless you really want to. Unfortunately, the ability to hike some of these trails might not last as long as your desire to do so, and visiting some of Switzerland's wonderful cities, or riding the trains, is likely to be something you can do even after some of the hikes are off-the-table. Just my perspective....

Disclaimer: Minority report. DO NOT ALLOW MINORS TO READ THIS

We found Switzerland to be one of the dullest countries we have ever visited. Yes, there is great natural beauty, but is like a stereotypical model, there aint't much after that. For a 1,000 year old culture, they have contributed little to western culture, especially when compared to just about every other western European country.

We hiked the Alps, went to Zermatt, took the tourist train, St. Moritz, Zurich, and Geneva, which can mistaken for a sleep clinic with street lights.

The people are humorless but professionally courteous. Like almost everyone else here, we are experienced independent travelers but we extruded little joy from Switzerland.

@ IMDonehere: Interesting! I found the humor of public art in Switzerland to be absolutely delightful. I was intrigued by the enormous differences between the different regions of the country. I was surprised by how many artists and sculptors that I had already known (not to mention those I learned about while there), had come from Switzerland (even if they ended up being identified with other parts of the world). I am glad I visited the Latenium, where the prehistoric remains of the area (circa 450 BC) are on glorious display. And I was pleased to find so many people who, despite their professionally courteous exterior, were happy to laugh and engage in delightful conversation if given even a tiny opening to step outside their official roles. Just my experience -- and honestly, I'm glad it was my experience!

If I might offer an hypothesis: Maybe you didn't visit the places that show Swiss charm off to its best advantage? St. Moritz is, IMO, among the country's most ugly and overrated locations. I enjoyed Zurich and Geneva, but would not count them among my favorite areas of the country. I didn't make it to Zermatt. Much as I adored the Bernese Oberland, I found it so devoted to tourism as to be nearly without a recognizable national identity. IME, to discover the joys of Switzerland requires going to at least some places not on the most common tourist trail. Again, JMO.

Again who knows these days - those dreaded words 'unusually bad weather at this time' might just crop up even in July.>

Yes exactly - and crowds start to materialize start of July - mid- to late-June would be ideal- weather can always be bad but crowds are always bad in July and in some popular locals.

okay i'll stick to June - i don't want to be hiking with the crowds...
Yep i won't say we are avid hikers but definitely enjoying tackling some of these lovely destination hikes with views...and I know Switzerland is a great country for hiking and views :)

So hey I just return to Switzerland another time and see all the other non touristy little towns away from the Bernese Oberland region someday :) This trip I will enjoy the Bernese and well just hope the weather is good but make sure i have backups like the train rides to cities etc if the hiking is not possible. The good thing with the Bernese region is any of these treks can be substituted with a bus or cable car ride to the next town - in case of rain. With the exception of the Obersteinberg hike, i hear once we begin that hike we must finish that...no public transportation up to that hut/inn.

Thanks again everyone!!

Kja-I am certainly glad you had a different experience than us. That is what makes travel wonderful and boards like more informative.
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The Swiss seem to have the soul of Calvin, Zwingli, bankers, and clock makers.

I went into a bookstore in Zurich and asked for any serious Swiss contemporary writer besides Max Frisch, they could recommend. I was genuinely surprised when they said none. They do excel at architecture, however. And as noted for a 1,000 year old culture their contribution to western culture is dwarfed by almost every other western and central European country.

I wanted to bring home applications for Swiss bank accounts as gifts but I forgot.

"okay i'll stick to June - i don't want to be hiking with the crowds..."

I never understand why non European visitors refuse to walk on the more than 99 per cent of hiking trails which get never crowded (at least as beautiful as the others, of course!) and tell as that they don't like crowded trails.

Not all of us neckervd!

Well folks in say Grindelwald area for just a few days naturally gravitate to well known trails an easy chair lift or train ride from town. I've hiked in just about all the trails in the Grindelwald amphitheatre and relatively few I would say are crowded - even Mannlichen to Kl Scheiedegg - relatively few of the mobs of folks that descend on the Jungfrau Region rarely even hike - so towns may be crowded but few trails IMO and I do not need to have a whole trail to myself either.

I rather like passing other hikers -like those Swiss and Germans in Lederhosen and walking sticks.

Not all of us neckervd!>

Yes for folks who go to Switzerland a lot but for first-timers on a brief trip they just want a few easy walks easy to get to.

But neckervd's point is well taken!

neckervd -do you think the hikes OP has in OP will be very crowded in late June early July?

When I did some of those in August (like Schwarzdalp to Grindelwald) they were not.

Palen. An answer to your question "neckervd -do you think the hikes OP has in OP will be very crowded in late June early July?"

Of course not, but there will be some differences (always if the weather isn't too bad, otherwise there would be no hikers at all):

Saturday June 24th:
Schwarzwaldalp - Bidem - Scheidegg Oberlaeger: no people coming down, but may be a few dozens going up (the same way as OP) every hour;
Scheidegg Oberlaeger - Grindel Oberlaeger: some hundred people per hour coming down from First gondola station along the upper trail, almost nobody on the lower trail.
Grindel Oberlaeger - Grindelwald: OP will probably never be alone for more than 3 minutes. He will cross families and individual hikers.

Sunday June 25th:
Grindelwald - Kleine Scheidegg: there may be many (mostly foreign) hikers on the so called Eiger Trail and much less (mostly Swiss) people along the usual itinerary via Tschuggen - Arvengarten. There will be more people (coming from Alpiglen) between Arvengarten and Kleine Scheidegg as along the lower legs.

Tons of people just a few steps around Kleine Scheidegg railway station.

Kleine Scheidegg - Wengen along the railway line: a lot of people with kids and dogs walking down.
Kleine Scheidegg - Wengen via Biglenalp - Mettlenalp - Schiltwald: OP will not meet many people, but as it's Sunday, he will not be alone on this trail.

Tuesday June 27th: OP will not see many people, neither on the direct trail (only 5 miles or so) nor via Schmadri Hut.

Wednesday June 28th: Obersteinberg - Busen - Gimmelwald. May be OP will meet some other human beings, may be not; the last time when I passed there, I met only sheep.

....but be aware that things would be different in July (school holidays in most Swiss Cantons and in many German Bundeslaendern)!

thanks neckervd for your continuing going above and beyond the call of duty in giving such great deatils.