I still think it's too many places and too many "2 nights" stay. That might work for a couple weeks but I don't think will be very enjoyable doing 3 months of that. Why not build in some 5-7 day stays to stop and catch your breath every few weeks?

An experience can be just as rich (richer?) by getting a bit more in depth and the chance to "live like a local" for a week, instead of rushing to the train station every other day.

Another suggestion would be to cut Warsaw. When you look at the map, it's a bit out of the way compared to your other locations.

Additionally, as much as I love Berlin, (I lived there for 2 years some time ago) 2 nights doesn't really do it justice so you're spending a lot of time getting there for not much pay off. You could skip it or add the Warsaw nights to it.

As others have mentioned, it would be beneficial to look at a guidebook and map, look at the travel times between the places you plan to go (Google maps gives you these options) and see how that affects your thinking.

If you find that you're spending 8 hours on a train every 3 days then that's your choice.

>> . . . but we do want to experience the culture also. <<

You say so . . . but don't have more that one or two days the VAST majority of your stops. You simply ain't going to experience much if any culture at that pace.

You say 4 nights in Scotland -- that is 3 days -- enough time to see most of Edinburgh but nothing else. One day in Wales -- why bother??

But you seem set on this sort of crazy dash around 3/4 of Europe. It is your trip and I do hope you have a good time, but I honestly think there isn't much more help to be offered.

I wouldn't add to the heap critics about your itinerary here, but PK you have some funny ideas about Europe cities. First, the idea that Amsterdam is all about pot. Then, Bologna is all about pasta. Finally, Naples is all about bad things. Blimey! Are you sure it wasn't some jokes from your friends?

If it's my first Europe trip, I'd rather read more about the countries than relying on "rumours".

No offence.

<we do want to experience the culture also>

For that you need to *slow down*. You simply won't be able to do that running thru such a long list of places in such a short time.

Sorry - still way too many palaces.

You said you want to really experience the culture. IMHO this will take you at least a week in each place - so you can either rent a small studio or find a hostel with cooking facilities and learn your neighborhood, the shops, explore local activities and meet some local other than a waiter or a hotel desk clerk.

And you are still all in major cities; you really don;t have any time in the countryside, which would give you a completely different feeling. We have done so, but on road trips, staying in one central smallish spot and then visiting other places on a couple of day trips.

For instance, we stayed in Spa in Belgium and did day trips to Liege (Belgium), Aachen (Germany, Charlemagne's capital) and then south towards Luxembourg to see some of the hill villages and small local castles. You could - in 2 weeks - do this and then spend another 5 or 6 days in Brugges/Ghent and Brussels. This would give you some feeling for the area - but it's 2 weeks in a very small country.

I think you really need to decide what you want to do/see. If it;s the major sights then stick with the largest/most famous cities and hit a number of countries. But do at least give yourself enough days to see more than the top 3 sights. If you really want to get to know an area spend 2 or 3 weeks there and enmesh yourself in the local life to at least a limited extent.

And as for your travel agent - dump her - she doesn;t have a clue - just gave you a list of every place she had ever been that she liked and ignored what you asked for.

HI again PK,

You are hardly alone in avoiding Naples because you've heard bad things about it. Most of us who have been really enjoy the city, especially because it is so untouristy (how could it not be, when so many tourists avoid it?) and it is buzzing and overflowing with local life, lived on the streets, but some people can't wait to leave! But if you are intrigued, read up more and ask questions, but in the end it is your trip and don't be bullied into going anyplace that you have reason to think you might not enjoy. (And weirdly, people will try to bully you.)

As for Bologna, I'm usually there six or seven times a year, and I am there for the pasta! While Bologna has other attractions, and is a great base for train travel in the region for day trips, the pasta is really the star of the show food wise -- and while many restaurants throughout Italy offer gluten-free pasta, I think it is a wise choice to skip the places that are pasta-centric and pizza-centric in favor of the parts of Italy that focus on polenta and rice. That would be VERONA -- which is a fabulous place for getting to know Italy plus enjoying music. You can day trip to Venice from there, and Lago di Garda too. Lots of risotto and polenta instead of pasta. No problem.

I think if you want to make a visit to Auschwitz, then Krakow is the logical place to stay, and many people enjoy the beautiful town.

<don't be bullied into going anyplace that you have reason to think you might not enjoy. (And weirdly, people will try to bully you.)>

I think the OP is an adult who can make choices. If they feel 'bullied' then that is their perception. Nothing more.

(And the comment in brackets is a bit of a stretch coming from someone for whom bullying and belittling others on these forums is continuous - I await the inevitable put downs, myself).

Our first trip to Europe was 13 weeks. Thankfully we did 6 one week stays in apts and in between we stayed 3-4 days in each place. Rushing around with 2 or 3 days in each location (for the most part) will get old very very quickly.

Every 10 days to two weeks you will need to fit in a day to do laundry. Rinsing out in the sink will only work for so long. If you plan to stay in an apt for a week find one with a washer. Do laundry the first day or two of your stay and then it will be sure to be dry by the time you pack up. Dryers are not really used too much in Europe.

Apts are a fantastic way to save a bit of money on food. You can shop locally and make most of your meals. We really enjoyed our own little space to come back to during the day, not just a bed and bath. If you think you will need a lot of help with what to see/do in each location you might be better off with a hotel.

We traveled July 27 to Nov 4 and started in Britain and Scotland (3 weeks) then made our way to France (one month), Germany ( two weeks), and finally Italy (one month). Weather wise it worked out great except for the heatwave beginning of Aug in Paris! October in Italy was beautiful...slightly cool in the mornings and then beautiful days.

Get a regular map and put it on a bulletin board. Put a pushpin everywhere you want to see. You will see it begin to form groups. Pick a base for each grouping and plan day trips from your base. Don't be afraid to leave off places.

Europe is not going anywhere. You will be able to travel later in life also. Heck, we didn't take our first trip to Europe until the kids were in college. You will never see everything so do not try. You are there to make memories, not cross destinations off of a list.

Enjoy your planning. It is half the fun for me.

On a short trip of a few days, travelers can rush around, but on longer trips, continuous rushing from place to place results in burnout and a blur of what you have seen. You are getting good advice on that score. Now, how do you plan and cut back but still see a lot?

I do not mean to slow down and do nothing. I mean to become more focused on those things you said you are most interested in: history, music, architecture and explore those more in depth rather than racing around with a list given you by someone else.

Rather than trying to go to many far flung places, do more research, ask more questions here and seek out interesting places that are near your major must see cities.
Some examples.
You have Madrid on the list. I assume it is for the Art museums. Only about 20-25 minutes away by train is the little city of Toledo. It is a world Heritage site. The Capitol of Spain, prior to Madrid, it was a meca for artists, poets, philosophers, etc. and Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together in peace. Interestingly, Muslims designed and built the synagogue there. So, amazing history. Even more, you are interested in architecture. The Toledo Cathedral is one of the great ones! Read about it.
Everybody has their own opinions, of course, and everybody travels differently for different reasons, but IMHO, going to Madrid and not going to Toledo would be sad. Also, if you want to experience local culture, stay over night in some of these smaller towns where most tourists come only for the day and at night you may be the only traveler in a small local restaurant.

In Córdoba is the five star world heritage site of the Mezquita de Córdoba. As lovers of both architecture and history, you would not want to pass right by it on your way from Madrid to Granada.

Glad to see you put Granada on your list. The Alhambra is so beautiful and talk about history. Read Washington Irving's Tales of the Alhambra. Queen Isabella, after she drove the Moors from their home, lived in the Alhambra herself for awhile. So, you have both history and architecture there. Stay another day. Hike in the olive groves and go to some of the caves for Music and dancing.

Seville? No? Consider it.

Barcelona makes sense because it is a fast train from Madrid (or short flight from Granada) and is a meca for Gaudi fans. You would want also to see the Palau de la Musica.

Another example.
You are going to Venice. Fantastic architecture and history. Read about how all the buildings are built and the history of the Doges. Read about the history of Jews in Venice and perhaps tour the Ghetto. So much amazing history in Venice.

However, what many people do not have time for, or may not even know about, is just a short train ride away, the beautiful little city of Vicenza, an absolute treasure of Palladian architecture. He designed so many buildings there, it is a monument to his genius. Theatre Olimpico is perfection in space - sublime. Any student of architecture should see it at least once.

You indicate an interest in classical music. In Venice, there are concerts performed in many of the churches throughout the city, some free, some with tickets. Often the performance is pieces written to be performed in that particular space. The composer listened to the notes being played and adjusted for the acoustics in that space. Amazing. So, go on line and see what will be happening when you are there or when you arrive in Venice, first thing, go to the tourist office in Piazza San Marco and pick up a mag with all the concert listings. So, there you have your classical music, some of the most beautiful and Influential architecture in the world and history. Stay in Venice long enough to take in some of these things.

Another example. England is filled with magnificent architecture and, of course, English history is about as exciting as it can get. You can hear concerts and chorus music in many places. If you are going to England, why not include Bath, probably the finest example of Georgian architecture anywhere, plus the Roman Baths?

I am not saying you should see or do any of these specific things. They are only examples of seeing more with less frantic travel. There is nothing wrong with a whirlwind trip like your current itinerary, but you indicate that you want more from your trip than photo op stops. Think about and focus on what will make a memorable experience for you!

The idea that you might substitute Bologna for Florence if there is anything to see in Bologna indicates that you are not familiar enough with either one to make a good choice for yourself. Not to be unkind, but I am guessing that may be true for many of the places on your list. It is not a put down. We all start someplace and nobody becomes an expert on everyplace. Focus on your five or six most important places, research what there is to see there, find what is nearby of serious interest, see how much time that all takes, then add places if there is enough time for more.

No one is taking into consideration the OP's home city - how many of you have noticed where she is from and how that informs her choices?

Ummmm....anyone? Who has bothered to take this into consideration (only me as far as I know)


I have said to her that her 3 month trip is too busy, night trains are not as romantic as they seem (paraphrased) and Naples is worthy of consideration. Perhaps use your atlas (lol) and see where she is from and then perhaps understand the desire to overly rush and pack it in, given her priorities (marriage and children).

For those of you who can travel 'on Delta points' and for whom a trip across the pond can be done in a weekend you may refrain from your overarching opinions.

Your travel agent is doing you no favors.

I think you can plan a much better, more interesting & successful trip on your own (with the help of forums like this ones, Trip Advisor, Lonely Planet, and hard-copy guidebooks).

One can only hope that "forums like this one" are actually helpful in the end, considering the occasionally conflicting information and sometimes divisive opinions.

What the OP asked for - and is getting - is a lot of different opinions - as well as some very specific information. Since we are not a travel agency that is really the most they can get here - since no one can sit with them for a couple of hours and help them sort out what they really want the most and the simplest and least expensive way of getting it.

The idea is not that everyone should agree about everything. It's to provide thinking based on the OPs interests filtered through the posters' experience.

I think it's great that you are wanting to see a lot of places. Personally I don't see anything wrong with somewhat of a whirlwind itinerary so long as you build in some longer "rest" cities.

I love to travel by train and find it very relaxing. I hate traveling by plane, as the travel to and from the airport takes up an entire day. If at all possible you should not take any airline flights save those to the Iberian peninsula and to Greece. For example, why not start your trip in Krakow, then go to Warsaw by train, then on to Berlin, instead of ruining your trip by taking a plane flight?

I certainly think your schedule could use quite a bit of fine tuning. Many people, me included, would say that 10 hours in Athens is more than enough. So what are you going to do with the remaining 2.5 days? Instead of staying in Brussels for one night, why not just arrive before lunch, check your suitcases at the train station, and walk around for six hours?

Why don't you do a Google search and find a rail map of Europe. Then try to plan a rational travel plan with most trips between cities being four hours or fewer, picking the places that you want to go to the most. Nothing wrong with spending the night in a small town, by the way. You can choose to spend six hours in a city (check bags at station), one night, two nights, three nights, five nights, or whatever. It's your choice. There are no wrong answers, save that you shouldn't pack in so many "quickie" cities that you wear yourself out.

Pick the places that YOU want to go to, not some travel advisor. And maybe choose a couple of smaller towns just at random for a single night stay to break up a long train trip.

>>Rushing around with 2 or 3 days in each location (for the most part) will get old very very quickly.<<

If only . . . at least that would be a little better. This plan is mostly 2 and 3 <i>night</i> stops which net 1 to 2 days actual free time on-the-ground seeing/doing.

<This plan is mostly 2 and 3 night stops which net 1 to 2 days actual free time on-the-ground seeing/doing.>

Exactly...even worse. Would not recommend at all. It will be a blur of unpacking, racing around to see a few top sights, repacking and relocating to the next spot to start the process all over again. For three months!

Here's another specific: imo you could cut Bern and Zurich and go straight to one place to spend your 4 or 5 (or so) nights in Switzerland to get a feel for the alps. We have a lot of people on this forum who can help you with specific destinations... someplace that will give access to a town and villages. Warning, Switzerland is not cheap but it certainly was on my top 10 wish list when I was starting out and is worth going to the effort to find ways to economize to make it happen.

Have fun with your planning!

The Jungfrau Region is the essence of the dreamy Alpine Swiss Wonderland etched in many folks'minds - ensonce yourself in a cute village like Wengen or Grindelwald and be eyeball to eyeball with soaring glacier-girdled peaks rising thousands of feet above a lush cow-dotted valley- toylike trains and thrilling aerial gondolas go off in all directions:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jung...w=1745&bih=868

Just a note. You say you are going to Ireland because of your interest in Game of Thrones - but it is filmed in Northern Ireland, not in "regular" Ireland, so you will be nowhere near that scenery in Dublin. (Not that Dublin isn't a great stop in its own right, of course.)