samdisney

Please help with tentative 12 day dec 2008 itinerary for family of 4(young children)
milan 1 night
rome 4 nights
venice 3 nights
lugano 1 night
milan 2 nights.
1.should we take the train throughout about 500 euros or should we rent a car for all of the days about 425 euros.
or should we do train from milan to rome.car to venice and then train from venice?
any suggestions?
for our last 2 days in milan we thought we would see the doumo and the last supper and the 2 day see genova?
or should we spend 2 days in lugano?
please help.

DalaiLlama

Train all the way. A car in Rome is a hindrance, in Venice it is impossible. Milan has good buses and a metro.

Why Lugano? It is the unfriendly cool or cold season, no flowers, only two ship services on the lake a day (at 11:40 and 14:40) to Gandria and back, but no guarantee for pretty views from the lake - what else would you do there in December? And it means one more hotel to move into, when you already move around quite a bit.

Take the train from Venice to Milan and, if you have a special reason for going to Lugano that you didn't mention, do it by train as a daytrip from Milan.

Buon viaggio.

SusanP

I agree that you are changing hotels too many times, especially with two young kids. Go directly to Rome on arrival, spend 5 nights there, train to Venice for 4 nights, train to Milan for 2 nights. You don't want a car in any of these places.

Although I haven't been to Lugano, I suspect the previous poster is correct, December probably isn't a great time to go there.

samdisney

thank you guys!
the reason we are staying in milan on the first day is because our flight gets in late afternoon.so with the kids (5 and 9 )thought they would be too tired.
2.lugano only because someone said it was beautiful and that there is a miniature swiss village and a funicular that the kids might enjoy.if its not worth it ?maybe i will take it out?
3.will do trains thanks but the trenitalia wesite is only showing schedules upto december 12 2008 to buy.is there any other way to buy?
also is it worth it to splurge on first class as milan -rome is 4.30 hrs also rome-venice 4:30 hrs.
price difference is 120 euros for both legs.
appreciate all the advice.

LoveItaly

Hello samdisney, with arriving in Milan (I assume Malpensa) I wouldn't attempt to take the train to Rome the same day especially with your two children.

I would be inclined to skip Lugano due to the fact that you will be in Italy in December.

I would probably add that additional night onto Rome. Just a thought.

If you are going from one city to the next I would travel by train versus renting an auto.

Many people have difficulty buying tickets via the trenitalia website. You could buy your tickets when arriving in Milan for all of your trip. I say that assuming that you will not be travelling by train over the Christmas holiday.

I have always travelled by train in second class but if your budget can afford it with the children you might be happier with first class but if you are watching "your pennies" second class will be fine I would think.

Your lucky family! Have a wonderful time in Italy.

SusanP

sam, you're probably right to stay in Milan the first night if you're arriving that late. My recommendation was based on an early arrival (lots of flights do arrive early in the morning). I agree with LoveItaly, take your night from Lugano and add it to Rome.

I'm not sure why Trenitalia is only showing trains until Dec 12. Normally, you can buy a ticket for anything within 60 days. But as LoveItaly notes, you can buy all the tickets for the trip when you arrive in Milan. If you're taking the train over Christmas, try Trenitalia again.

kybourbon

Are you selecting the family rate when pricing your tickets? I only see a difference of 64€ between 1st and 2nd class for four people for Milan/Rome on ES/AV trains.

A car is a hindrance in Rome/Venice/Milan. It would be very expensive for parking at your hotels and it's not likely you will find parking near the places you want to visit without paying lots of €.

samdisney

thanks again guys.
1.we are going over the christmas break so am definitely worried about the train tickets .can one buy them through american express here in america?
2.easy jet and ryanair are only 130 euros from milan to rome,but thinking it might be a lot of trouble taking the kids back to the airport etc.if i cant get the train tickets is this a viable option?
3.we are staying at the crown plaza st peters in rome in via aurelia antica .how would one get there from the train station .metro?
4.anything i should buy before getting to rome and venice.like rome or venice passes.
5.any kid friendly and purse friendly dinner options in rome and venice.Around 40 euros for 4 (we don't drink).can it be done?
thanks ALL.

kybourbon

Can you post the dates you will be in each city. There are certain days that things are closed so no point suggesting something that may be closed.

I really wouldn't worry about advance purchase of train tickets. People stree entirely too much over train tickets. There may be certain days (weekend before Christmas) that you might have problems. I find the more expensive trains such as the AV/ES are less crowded than the ICPlus and other trains. Since you are spending a night in Milan, I would buy all the tickets there on arrival. On your Milan/Rome route, there are hourly AV/ES trains.

The Crown Plaza is not very close to the city center. You could take the metro from Termini, but the closest stop is Cornelia and it's still quite a distance from there (too far on too busy of streets for young children). You will need to taxi from the Termini.

I would buy the Roma Pass for Rome, but am not aware of children's passes so you will need to ask before purchasing. The Roma Pass is 20€ and will give you two free entrances (doesn't include Vatican), 50% off at other museums/attractions after you have used your free entrances and three days transportation pass. This will come in handy since your hotel is so far out, you will need to use bus/metro to get to the city center.
http://www.romapass.it/?l=en

samdisney

Thankyou kybourbon,
milan 26 december.
our dates in rome: 27-31 dec.
venice: 31-3 jan
milan 3-6 jan flying back out on 6 afternoon.
the hotel is offering a free shuttle to the city center 5 times /day/roundtrip .
we had to pick holiday inn chains for almost all nights because we are 4 and its cheaper this way.
will definitely get the rome passes.
thanks again

Bitter

Sounds wonderful. Just remember to plan on time for the kids to rest. 9 may be too old for a nap, but its still not a bad idea...

Regarding accomodations: There are budget choices closer in. In 07 we (2 adults 2 younger children) stayed in the Casa Il Rosario convent within easy walking distance of the colosseum and reasonable walking distance to the Trevi, etc. Price was good; location was excellent; breakfast included. There is a curfew. We had a 4 person room. Not huge or fancy but adequate.

I'm not an Italy expert, but have you considered Florence instead of Venice for logistical reasons? The only reason I ask is that seemed to work out better for us when we were doing our planning (i.e. we had to purge Venice, unfortunately).

My experience in Rome (re: restaurants) is that on main streets there will be restaurants, but usually a block or two in from those restaurants will be more of a neighborhood restaurant, usually less pricey.

PeaceOut

Do you need to stay in Milan those last nights? I'd suggest you consider just one final night there, and add nights in Florence instead. With 11 nights, you could:

Milan: 26 dec. (one night)
Rome: 27-31 dec. (four nights)
Venice: 31-3 jan (two or three nights)
Florence: 3-5 jan (two or three nights)
Milan: 5 jan, (one night) flying back out on 6 afternoon.

I also suggest taking the train. It's more relaxing than trying to drive, and your kids can use the toilet whenever they need to.

I'd plan the itinerary according to the train schedules. Not sure if the order of cities above makes sense in that respect. It might be better to go Milan to Florence to Rome.

Venice is a bit off the track, so you can decide how important it is. With kids, I might opt for less moving around and skipping Venice this time. If your kids are really little, the canals there could be dangerous for them.

Mimar

I like PeaceOut's itinerary. But I'd only omit Venice if your children are very small. Kids love Venice (the canals, the boats) but have less appreciation for Renaissance art and architecture, the main features of Florence.

And the general idea of staying longer in one place works better with kids; they get acquainted with the neighborhood, the gelato man, etc.

With the weather in December, the lakes, the seaside, the countryside are not at their best. Better to stick to the cities this time.

SusanP

From your last itinerary listed, I would definitely take one of those nights at the end in Milan and switch it to Rome. It's too bad you can't change your hotel in Rome, that's a long way from everything you will want to see. Check with the hotel for bus routes so you don't always have to take a taxi. What is your budget per night for all four of you? You might be able to do an apartment, which would also give you more room with the kids. On the other hand, maybe you feel you need help from a desk clerk or concierge since it's your first trip?


As mentioned, don't worry too much about the train tickets, but do get them all on your first day in Milan so you're set for the rest of the trip.

hmmm

Our children, 11-13 years, loved San Marco piazza in Venice, especially feeding the pigeons. They also did well on the trains, which we used to move city to city, including the long ride from Rome to Venice. Suppress the urge to drive. It's difficult to negotiate city streets, parking is expensiive and often difficult to find and gasoline is very expensive.

Enjoy your trip.

Bitter

Our kids did fine with Florence. Not saying they wouldn't have prefered Venice, though. Frequent gelato stops and pizza helped fortify them for more renaisance (sp?) art!

Motorino

You will need to worry about train tickets Dec 31 Rome to Venice. The trains will be packed that day and likely many sold out.

Therefore, when you travel from Milan to Roma by train also buy ticket for Rome Venice the 31st.

2009 schedule will look like 2008 so you may make some plans arund times you see.

We have a video on our site on how to use the kiosks to buy train ticket in Italy. Click All ITALY on our site and you wil see video.

mjs

I like too like the peaceout itinerary

DalaiLlama

Train schedules all over Europe are adjusted around Dec. 12th every year. Some countries and their train systems are quicker than others in adapting their websites. Keep an eye on trenitalia and if you have not been able to reserve your tix by the time you leave, go stand in line as soon as you arrive.

Write down what you want, with the date as dd/mm/yyy and departure and arrival stations, and be patient, English is spoken more or less well depending on luck...

Gianni

Ciao,
two full days in Milano are ok, not more... Avoid Lugano, it's a beautiful town / area BUT in spring or summer. If you woulk like to see a lake you can go to Como by traing in less tan an hour.

Book trains in advance. Starting from mid December will start operating the new "super fast" train link between MI and Rome. Not cheap, check Trenitalia web site if you can get discounts.

Ciao.
Gianni (Milan, Italy)