conpdepabl0

Hello everybody, I'm new at this forum. as you can see, this is my 2nd post (1st one is on Greece forum). We are a couple from Buenos Aires (Argentina) and we're planning a Europe trip during June 2018 (almost the whole month). The main objective is Greece, but we plan a week in Italy, focus on Rome and archeological stuff at/near Naples. This is our first part of the trip, then we move to Greece, and at last we'll return from Barcelona (where we'll staying for only 2 days). So this is the skeleton of Italy part:

June 4: Arrival to Barcelona, late flight to Rome. Arrival to Fiumicino airport at 22:50h, then bus to Termini (I guess there's a bus at 23:50h).

June 5-6-7-8: Rome. Yet to do some research & cleaning this list, but mainly: Colosseo, Forum, Campo dei Fiori, Piazza Navona, Trastevere for dinner, Via Appia Antica & catacombes (Calixto or St. Sebastian, don't know yet), maybe Aquaduct Park. Churches: Pantheon, Basilica di San Clemente al Laterano, Santa Prassede, Basilica di Santa Maria in Trastevere, Basilica Santa Maria sopra Minerva. Maybe Basilica di San Pietro in Vincole (to see Michelangelo's Moises), and maybe Vatican City (Basilica Papale di San Pietro & the Vatican Museum) but we're not sure yet, we have to sharp the daily plan.

June 9: Train to Naples, arrival at noon, make base. Visit Archeological Museum, Piazza del Plebiscito, Spaccanapoli & Spanish Quarter, Capella Sansevero?, Castel dell'Ovo & Castel Nuovo (from outside). Eat in a typical pizzeria, pasta, etc.

June 10: DAYTRIP#1 to Pompei.

June 11: DAYTRIP#2 to Herculanum & Vesuvio.

June 12: Flight from Naples airport to Athens. Continue the trip in Greece.
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I have a few questions about Naples and its daytrips:

A) Regarding the tickets and transportation, I'm a little dazed here. We want to go to: Naples' National Archeological Museum, Pompeii site, Herculanum site and mount Vesuvio.

There is a combined tickets between Pompeii & Herculanum, but also the Campania Artecard (regional) for 3 days which include 2 free entrances and 50% off the 3rd entrance, and free transportation (except the Alibus to the airport, am I right?). The Artecard doesn't include the bus to/from mount Vesuvio, does it?

So making maths:
option 1) MANN (12eur) + Pompeii & Herculanum combined (15eur) = 27eur + trains (if I'm not mistaken, 7eur roundtrip to Pompei and 5eur roundtrip to Herculanum, plus the Vesuvio bus around 10eur) = 49eur
option 2) Artecard 32eur + Herculanum 50% off (5,50eur) + Vesuvio bus (10eur) = 47,50 eur

Unless I'm missing something, the advantage of the Artecard is saving time (not queing at train stations or sites to buy tickets) and a saving of 1,50eur. That's not all that bad, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

2) Regarding the transportation in Daytrip#2: is it better to make Naples-Herculanum-Vesuvio-Naples, or is better to swap the order to Naples-Vesuvio-Herculanum-Naples? (in terms of saving money and/or time, or practical issues like bus connections, etc.)

3) Does the Artecard include the Alibus from/to Naples airport? (I've read that not, but then in some forums they discuss this item)
And what about the Vesuvio bus (from/to Naples or from/to Herculanum)? Is it included? I was searching but the information is confusing or insufficient for me.

These are my questions so far, thank you in advance. Any tips are welcome! Cheers,

Pablo

kja

I would find this trip painfully rushed, and it doesn’t seem to include any time to recover from jet lag, but you noted – quite clearly – on your other thread that you realize that you are “compressing” things and are OK with that. I must admit that I don't see your plan for June 9 as being feasible, but if you just want to walk by everything but the museum, you might be able to manage it. As for your question # 2: Check closing times and, as a rule, put the one that closes later afterwards BUT (a) in June, the temperatures during the afternoon on Vesuvius could be quite unpleasant and (b) if one of these places is a greater priority for you, so that you would feel worse if you missed or curtailed your time at one rather than the other, then put that one earlier in your day. Good luck!

Leely2

I don't think June 9th is possible, but you may be able to squeeze in a few sites in Naples on the 10th if you go early to Pompeii and don't spend ALL day there. I loved Naples. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I found it delightfully vibrant. There is a TON to see.

I've not been to Ercolano nor to Vesuvio, so no advice from me.

I think your Rome plan (four full days, keeping your agenda loose) is a good idea.

Buon viaggio!

PalenQ

Train questions - check www.seat61.com - for general train info also www.ricksteves.com and BETS-European Rail Experts. Book Rome-Naples way early for discounted fares.

oh2doula

My husband and i leave for Italy this week - traveling one day to Naples - plan is very similar to your June 9 - concerned with comments about it not working - We plan to visit Piazza del Plebiscito, Spaccanapoli ,Capella Sansevero? also with question mark), Castel dell'Ovo & Castel Nuovo (from outside) - we won't be checking into a hotel or the archaeology museum so I have fingers crossed - we plan to do what we can and when we need to head back to the train station allow plenty of time...

PalenQ

Naples in center is not that large - I did day trip from Rome and walked all over but with discounted train tickets being train-specific return as late as possible without being too late!

kja

It really depends on what one wants to see and experience. I could not have walked all of the parts of Naples I wanted to see in a single day trip, and I would not have wanted to go so far only to skip some of the things inside those fascinating exteriors. For example, the Naples Archeological Museum is one of Italy's great treasures, IMO. To each his/her own!

Leely2

The chiostro at Santa Chiara, the Cristo Velato in Sansevero, the Caravaggio in Pio Monte della Misericordia, the 4th century mosaics in the baptistery of the Duomo, Napoli Sotterranea...for me some of the most stunning things to see are inside the occasionally grimy exteriors. Not to mention the archaeological museum. I would probably choose a few sights that I really wanted to see and then make the effort to see those rather than traversing the center of town. Then I would have dinner somewhere by the water so I could walk around/by Castel Nuovo and Castel dell'Ovo.

But that's me, and indeed to each his own.

PalenQ

One day is better than no days and yes a few days would be nice - to me the visual feast of Naples is itself - and its churches' interiors - I don't care much for museums so need less time. Just love wandering the narrow streets redolent of an Italy I saw all over decades ago - Naples kind of a time trip for me.

conpdepabl0

Hello everybody! And thanks @Kja, @Leely2 and @PalenQ for your advices and tips. I took note of them.

I know day "June 9" is rushed. That list is everything I assumed it may be interesting for us, but I know maybe -probably- we cannot see it all. We still have to make a daily plan, and I know a few places are going off the list... But like Gandalf says in "The Lord of the Rings": all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

Our must in Naples is the Arch. Museum and feel a little ambience (dinner, strolling Spanish Quarter, etc.) but if it's ok if we cannot see all churches or monuments.

Nevertheless, based in your suggestions, we're willing to drop Herculanum and give half a day more to Naples in June 11 (that day just make mount Vesuvio). If that's the case, I did the maths and ArteCard is not worthy anymore.

Oh, and I have one more question: to visit the Secret Room / Cabinet at the National Arch. Museum in Naples... is it a *no reservation* entry? I've read somewhere that a free mail reservation was required to visit that specific room, but then reading forums and so, I cannot get that info. Does anybody know anything about that?

Again, many thanks to all, you're very kind and helpful for our planning. Cheers!

Pablo

annhig

Add me to those who think that your plans for June 9th are pretty impossible but remembering that this will be midsummer, it will be worthwhile to research the opening times for these places, which may be quite late, whereas when we were there in February a few years ago, it was so cold and wet that after we left the NAM we didn't really want to do anything but get back to the station. That said we did walk along Spaccanapoli for a while [lots of scary and unlit side streets there] and spend some time in via San Giorgio Armeno looking at the shops full of precepe and precepe figures, and then got thoroughly lost, and we still managed to catch the train back to Sorrento.

we spent at least 2 hours in the museum, and that included the "secret Room" for which one needed no reservation or special permission to enter, but frankly I wouldn't bother. The nearby rooms filled with the treasures of Pompeii were well worth the effort however.

Good luck with your planning.

PS - it's a train from the airport to Termini I think, if you are arriving at FCN, but you might want to consider a car service straight to your hotel at that time of night.

bvlenci

Given your interest in historical antiquities, I would skip Vesuvius rather than Herculaneum, which is a very interesting site, and quite different from Pompeii. I've never been to Vesuvius, but I've heard there isn't much to see there, and I've never heard anyone say it was the highlight of their trip. If you skip Vesuvius, you can get back to Naples early enough to see a good bit of Naples that day.

I have a few suggestions for Rome, given your interests.

I suggest that you visit the Vatican Museums on the Friday evening (the 8th), when there is much less crowding. Since you're interested in antiquities, you shouldn't miss the Egyptian collection. The Etruscan collection is also spectacular, but I'm not sure it's open on the Friday evenings. (The dates of the evening openings aren't definite yet, but they're usually available in June.)

Of the catacombs, my favorites are the St. Agnes catacomb, where you can also see the nearby Roman Christian (4th century) Church of Santa Costanza; or the Priscilla catacomb, which has some spectacular Roman frescoes. I also like very much the Basilica of Santa Sabina, very little changed since the 5th century. On the side of the church you can see a rare carved Roman wooden door, illustrating Biblical events.

The National Roman Museum at Palazzo Massimo alle Terme has a world class collection of ancient sculpture, as well as beautiful Roman mosaics and wall paintings, and many ancient household artifacts and ancient coins. The ticket also gives you entrance to the nearby Museum of the Diocletian Baths, which has an interesting permanent exhibit about the development of Latin writing. There you can also see, on your left as you enter, one of the halls of the ancient baths. Walking between the two museums, you should stop in to see the Basilica of Santa Maria degli Angeli, which is inside another part of the ancient bath complex. The conversion to a church was designed by Michelangelo.

The Capitoline Museums, above the Roman Forum, has an equally impressive collection of ancient sculpture and artifacts.

If you can find the time, I highly recommend that you spend half a day at Ostia Antica, on the outskirts of Rome, the archaeological site of the ancient Roman port city. The site is even larger than Pompeii, and its history covers over 500 years of Roman prominence. The part that can be visited has recently been enlarged, and I haven't seen it since then, but it's a place I've returned to visit many times.

Ostia - Harbour City of Ancient Rome

kja

Actually, I think that's a very personal decision. There are costs to day trips -- and not just the cost of transportation, but the opportunity costs (i.e., the loss of the opportunity to do whatever you would have done if you hadn't taken the day trip). And while I certainly recognize that some people would rather see a little bit of a lot of places, and consider that choice to be perfectly valid, I'm among those who do not like "tasting" trips. in fact, I'd rather skip something entirely than skim it or skim whatever place I've left behind. Again, just a personal preference.

PalenQ

Agree with kja about personal preferences. And to me one day is better than no days in a place like Naples where the overall old-world Italian city to me is the lure rather than individual sites.

conpdepabl0

Hello Fodorites!

@Annhig Thank you for the very useful info about the NAM and the strolling around Naples! Also, I've searched for the train Fiumicino-Rome (the Leonardo Express) but the last one is 23.:20h and we'll get at Fiumicino at 22:50h so I'm not sure we'll can make it. So the plan B is the bus at 23:50h.

@Bvlenci Wow how wonderful and detailed information about Rome! I took a look about those catacombs and I must say they're outstanding. I have marked them in order to add them to our daily routes. Also the churches and museums you recommended are great! I really thank you for all the gems you've post. About Ostia Antica, I know it's a beautiful place but with 4 days for Rome I prefer to stay in the city because is sooo much to see.

@Kja and @PalenQ yes, I know travelling it's all about preferences. In general I prefer to stay as long as I could in every place, but also how many places we want to see... there's the difficult balance. Because... how much is "enough time"? I think if we're confortable with our decisions then it's fine. In this occasion I agree with PalenQ and prefer 1 day wandering at Naples than no Naples at all.

I feel confident about this plan, I think it would be a lovely trip (I just don't want to loose anything great and then regret when back at home). Thanks to all of you for give such great advices. Cheers, Pablo

PalenQ

You'll be happy with at least seeing Naples ableit for a brief day or you'll forever be wondering...and some after getting there think a day is too much - not you I'm sure but Naples does have its warts - was especially dirty when I was there compared to other cities but that is also a part of Naples- not you spic-and-span large city. My visit was several years ago and maybe spruced up now but before lots of broken cobblestones...

I actually was eating a gelato and looking up and tripped in a missing cobblestone in front of the train station and fell flat on my head - ended up in ER all bloodied so look as you walk! I came on a Sunday and that was nice with less traffic and all the churches open and kids playing soccer in front of them, etc. Naples to me was very enjoyable... until that fall! (And though dazed and confused for a few minutes everyone was so so helpful -nothing but nicest things tosay about Neapolitans!

Nice outdoor market near train station selling an eclictic variety of stuff.

bvlenci

Pablo, maybe you don't have enough time for Ostia Antica, but I just want you to know that it's in Rome, not outside the city. You can get there on a single ticket.

PalenQ

Ostia Antica is exceptional - I enjoyed as much as Pompeii - especially since no overwheming crowds.

5alive

I read your Greek post and you mentioned that you like classic and medieval history... .

I agree that Ostia Antica is also an excellent option but will not belabor it. And you really must see the Vatican museums if you like classical antiquities. The Laocoön and the River Nile are both such amazing sculptures.

I would agree with Bvlenchi's suggestion to see the Priscila catacombs. I have also seen Sebastian and one other near it. They were larger, but I did not think they were better so to speak. Also, we were able to take a taxi to Priscila and walk down to the square and find a taxi back. It was closer to the old city. Sebastian requires a tour bus or a driver.

As to the things you already mentioned in Rome, you might want to go onto Google Maps and create your own personal map to see where things are and how they fit. For example, go to Peter Vincoli before going to the Colosseum and then on to the Forum. You might benefit from an actual good tour of the Colosseum with a private guide or small group, but it would be so much better if you can get one in Spanish so I have no advice for that. Otherwise, bring your guidebook with you.

St Maria Sopra Minerva is a must for you because it is the only Gothic church in Rome. Also don't miss the Michaelangelo sculpture near the altar. And the church is right next to the Pantheon.

We did visit St. Clement's--yes, it is 3-4 layers of history, which sounds great in the abstract. But the lower level churches were unfurnished, mostly just open spaces. The small Mithraic altar was cool. But don't get too excited about this prospect. I had so looked forward to this and it was a little disappointing.

On the other hand, the mosaics at St. Prassede are wonderful.

Here are a couple of suggestions for you--I hate to add more but you deserve to know what you are forgoing.

Subiaco: This is the birthplace of Western Monasticism, where Benedict found his mission and wrote his famous Rule. You will see the cave where this occurred. The monastery was attacked and rebuilt at least once, the one you will see dates to about 1100 AD and seems to hang from the side of the cliff at first glance. There were also some interesting frescoes. The brother explained the stories behind them to us, and finally, the portrait from life of St. Francis. My brother drove us; it's about 1 hour from Rome. Also Saint Scholastica is up the road, but for me, that stop paled compared to this place. You either need to rent a car or hire a driver. There's no public transport. Occasionally a tour bus comes, a German one came when we were leaving. I seldom mention it on this board, but it seems up your alley.

Scavi Tour: So you are seeing catacombs already but your other option would be to apply to the Vatican for the Scavi Tour. It is the necropolis underneath St. Peter's, and the final highlight, the tomb of St. Peter. The big drawback is that you get a set time, which puts a damper on what you do before/after the tour that day. The plus--please verify with travelers' reports who've been recently, once you go through security there, you can proceed into St. Peter's without going through that line separately. If you like Michaelangelo, the dome and the Pieta are things worth seeing, even if you are not a fan of Renaissance or baroque.

Leely2

After many trips to Rome, I finally made it to Palazzo Massimo alle Terme and the Baths of Diocletian this past summer. Really impressive, I so enjoyed my visit. If you have time, you might find it worthwhile. But there is, of course, much to see in Rome.