ajsars

My message...Hi guys, currently planning our first trip to Europe this year and would appreciate any feedback! We are flying in and out of Brisbane Australia

Time of year – mid October. To mid November
Length – 32 days

We like spend a good of time in each location to get a proper feel of the place and don't spend so time moving around.

Current plan

Fly into Paris
7 nights in Paris
3 nights in southern france (not sure where?)
3 nights san Sebastian
6 nights Barcelona
6 nights in Italy (not sure which location)
7 nights Greek islands and fly out of Athens

We enjoy good food and culture, won't be partying to much. Any recommendations for Italy? Naples looks really nice.

How would the weather be at that time of year? We put Paris first to hopefully catch some good weather.

We have set a budget for hotels but how much spending money would we need to travel comfortably but without the really expensive eating and such?



Thanks for any help!

sparkchaser

If breakfasts are included in your hotel and you plan to not splurge every night then 60-75€ a day for meals should be more than adequate.

ajsars

Ok thanks. Would that be per person or in total? I guess i would add roughly 50euro a day total for activities and museums and such?

Whathello

Hi

Weather :
Northern Europe can be miserable from mid-oct.
This year it wasn't the case, but you should plan on dark sky, wind, occasional rain and below 10C. No freeze though.

Naples is great, or Rome.
You say you like to stay at one place to get the feel of it - 6 days in Rome is not exxagerated. You can take daytrips (Ostia, Pompei, etc).

7 nights in Paris is generous; you can do some daytrips too (Versailles or Vaux le Vicomte) etc.

Spending money : all up to you, you can set a budget and then limit yourself to it.

I count around 40-50 €/day for food, 10 for musueums, 10 for travel costs etc. In Paris or Italy.
Now you can eat for less - a 'creperie' would cost about 15, a sandwich at noon would cost 3,5 and breakfast about 7 -> 25 €...

Spain is less expensive, both for food and accomodation.
Greece is (can be) cheap.

sparkchaser

Ok thanks. Would that be per person or in total? I guess i would add roughly 50euro a day total for activities and museums and such?

That was for two people. But it assumes that most of the time you aren't splurging on your meals.

traveller1959

Lots of flying and travelling between destinations.

7 nights in Paris seem a bit too many, considering your itinerary. Weather in Paris will be unpredictable. Most probably cold and rainy, maybe you get a few nice days.

3 nights in southern France is not enough. The Côte d'Azur will be warm and sunny and you will be able to swim in the sea. In all other parts of southern France weather will be unstable with high chances of rain. So, I would stay on the Côte d'Azur and add a couple of nights there.

Donostia (San Sebastion) is a bit out of your way. And it will be cool and rainy. I would not recommend it to you to go there for just 3 nights, considering all the time you lose for travelling. Frankly said, I would skip Donostia and use the time for other destinations.

6 nights in Barcelona are also too many, unless you will be doing some daytrips from there. To the north, you find Dali museums in Figueres and Cadaques, some beautiful scenery and dramatic coastline. Hopefully the weather will be okay. Be prepared for cool and rainy weather in Northern Spain.

Weatherwise, Sicily would be the best bet if you want to go to Italy, but Tuscany and Rome might also be quite nice.

In November in Greece there still is a chance of good weather (on November 11 I had been swimming in the sea in Rhodes), but be prepared that most hotels will be closed. Many seaside towns are ghost towns in November, with everything closed - hotels, restaurants, shops, gas stations, just everything. In the proper towns and cities which have a life of their own you find of course open hotels.

For Greece in November, I would recommend Rhodes (best weather) or Crete. The southern tip of Peloponnes also has good climate in November.

Whathello

I think Sparge counts for 2, I count for 1.

(I spend too much on restaurants).

Additional tips :
For Paris : tap water is for free
You can use thefork.com to make reservations and sometimes get up to 30% of rebate - actually thes restaurants that give such discounts are simply taking advatage from tourists...

ajsars

Thanks the tips. Côte d'Azur looks amazing. Is it possible to spend 6-7 days along there? Is it very expensive in October? Reasoning for 7 nights in Paris is recover for a day or so from the flight from Australia. But would consider cutting to 6 nights, it's the misuses only must see location! Will drop san Sebastian. Barcelona 6 nights includes one day of travel to there. Will the weather be nice enough to do some day trips and beach? Will skip Greece this time and maybe spend some more time in Italy at Rome, Sicily and tuscanny. Any other countries around that area nice at that time of year? Enjoy cities and towns were you can just wonder around for a day and explore new things.

Would you recommend then flying in and out of Paris?

Paris-Barcelona-Côte d'Azur-Italy-then back to Paris?

Kathie

I disagree that 7 nights in Paris is too much. We spent 10 days there last year and couldn't tear ourselves away to do a day trip! But it depend son your goals for this trip.

I suggest flying out of Italy if that is your last stop - always a better idea to do an open-jaw ticket than backtrack to your point of origin.

Wise to cut Greece for this trip. IMO, fewer destinations makes for a better trip.

ajsars

Yeah Paris looks fantastic. If we have 7 or so nights in Italy would you recommend just staying in Sicily or moving up to Rome as well?

traveller1959

Skipping Greece is a big cut, so no need to cut the days in Paris any more. And you are right, you need a day for relaxing after the flight.

We have been to the Côte d'Azur many times in October and even November. Weather will be beautiful there and we always had seawater temps of 24° C, while it had been much cooler in other parts of Europe, even in regions further south.

You can easily spend 6 or 7 days there (we usually spend two weeks), because there is so much to do and to see. October is low season, so the crowds have gone and the prices are reasonable.

(Just a story: We once travelled with a party of 9 in mid-November. We rented a villa with private pool on top of a mountain overlooking the sea which easily could have served as the retreat of the villain in a 007 movie. The price for July and August was €10,000 per week, but in November, we paid €1,500 per week - divided by 9.)

We usually stay on the Esterel Coast in small coastal towns named Agay, Antheor or Theoule-sur-Mer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massif_de_l'Esterel

We find there beautiful coves with crystal clear water, hiking trails through rugged red cliffs, one of the world's most scenic coastal routes and good enough connections to Nice, Antibes, Monace, museums, picturesque hilltop villages, Roman ruins and many attractions.

Another good base would be Antibes.

In and around Barcelona there is a 50% chance that it will be nice and sunny, but there is also a chance that rain will be coming. Barcelona has a city beach which is wide and sandy but not overly attractive. You find better beaches if your drive a little northwards, e.g. to Tossa de Mar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tossa_de_Mar

If your itinerary now includes Paris, Côte d'Azur, Barcelona, Rome/Tuscany and Sicily, you should optimize travelling.

Check open jaw flights - they would make things easier. If you want to include Sicily it would make sense to fly home out of Sicily or at least out of Rome.

Between your destinations you might find cheap flights. Otherwise, here are the train connections:

Paris to Côte d'Azur (Saint Raphael-Valescure: 4:39)
Paris to Barcelona: 7:12
Barcolona to Côte d'Azur (Saint Raphael-Valescure: 7:49
Côte d'Azur (Nice) to Florence: 6:53
Florence to Rome: 1:31

Do not add any other destination. All the destinations you have selected are full of sights and attractions to keep you occupied. I would even skip Sicily if you are doing Paris, Côte d'Azur, Barcelona, Tuscany and Rome. Or include Sicily and skip Barcelona.

ajsars

Thanks very much for the information. When basing yourself at agay or another small town what is the best way to travel around? Can you use public transport? I would prefer to not hire a car if possible.
How long do you recommend in Tuscany, Florence and Rome?

traveller1959

Along the Côte d'Azur, there is a coastal train, so, technically, you do not need a car. But there are so many scenic drives there that I would advise renting a car.

traveller1959

Tuscany:

The main area which is of touristical interest is roughly a square with a side lenght of 50km. The corners are Florence, Siena, the necropolis Populonia and Pisa with Volterra and San Gimignano in the middle.

I would count a full day for Florence (no car needed), one day for Siena and San Gimignano and one day for Pisa and Volterra, so three days in total. There are train connections, but I would rent a car for two days.

ajsars

Thanks. What's the weather like around these areas in November?
Is the easiest and quickest to travel my route train? Looking at the times it looks as long as flying when you add airport waiting times.

Paris to Barcelona then cote de azure to Florence finishing off in Rome.

If that was my itenerary how many days in each spot would you recommend? Would like around 6-7 nights in Paris, not sure about the rest. We don't like moving around too often when traveling.

nytraveler

I would google the weather in each place for the averages. IMHO Paris in November is usually pleasant - chilly rather than cold - no need for winter coats. But it can be rainy or grey or windy. I have never needed more than a leather jacket - but if you are used to very warm temps you may feel the cold.

Once you are south of the Alps temps should be less chilly - but rain and grey days are still perfectly possible and I would assume you will get some rain everywhere you spend more than 2 or 3 days.

ajsars

My gf is concerned about the weather. Would putting the trip off until December/January be better? I understand it would be colder but is it less rain and more snow?

In places like Paris, Rome and Florence is everything open and running like normal in October and December? I mean besides the colder overcast weather would we be able to do everything we could in peak season and experience everything the cities have to offer?

Would you travel to Paris and Rome in November?

StCirq

November is generally the rainiest month in France. Obviously, December and January are colder. We've had a solid 2 weeks of rain, hail, and sleet here in SW France. It's not weather I'd want to be touring around in unless I were in a major city where indoor activities are common. And I would never go to the Côte d'Azur at this time of year.

October is one of the nicest months, generally, for weather.

Of course everything is open and running in October and December in those places. They are major world cities. They couldn't possibly shut down. Have you got guidebooks and such to show you what these places actually look like and have to offer?

nytraveler

I would be more hesitant to go in Jan - when the weather is likely to be at it's worst - and possibly really unpleasant rather than just a little rainy. I hate having to wear all of those extra layers of clothes and take them on an off every time you go inside and outside - plus dealing with boots and snow.

IMHO November is much better than that. (Don't see how 35 and raining is better than 45 or 50 and raining. And snow, melting into slush, or possibly sleet - is much more unpleasant to walk around in.

bilboburgler

Basically forget the beach, yeah it might be ok, but no, really no one heads to the beach in November.

If you want to stay warm head south even there it may be wet. If you want some figures search using "climate" and your town of choice.

with your plan I'd drop Greece and keep northern Spain. If I wanted warm I'd head to Morocco and the Canary Islands. In these months apart from the very south people head to cities not the countryside and they use trains to get about as trains go to the centre of cities.

January. Europe is a big place so it varies and generally it gets colder and drier.

So your choice is going to be short days, wet and cold or dry and colder.