1 family, 21 days, 4 countries - TRANSIT advice, please!
 

Hi All,
We are a family of four (kids are 12 and 15) traveling in Europe late June to mid-July staying in Air BnBs, tent camping, and hostels. We have an itinerary and places to stay each night, with each family member responsible for planning one country. Disclaimer: we know it's ambitious, but it's what we want to do and we're experienced travelers/campers/road trippers. What we really need help with is transit systems navigation. All of our travel is point to point, making car rentals prohibitively expensive, so we're counting on transit. Thank you so much!!
Here we go:
AM arrival in Rome, 2 nights staying downtown
TRAVEL TO ASSISI (Bus, correct?)
1 night in Assisi
TRAVEL TO FLORENCE (Bus again, we think)
2 nights in Florence
TRAVEL TO BIASSA (Train?)
2 nights in Biassa for Cinque Terra visit
TRAVEL TO STECHELBERG, SWITZERLAND (This is the biggest travel day and all suggestions welcome because we're confounded.)
4 nights in the Oberland with one in the Lobhorhuette (Swiss Rail Pass? Family Pass?)
TRAVEL TO BERN (This is a Sunday, so any particular tips on what's open, etc. are appreciated.)
1 night in Bern
TRAVEL TO BANNWALDSEE, Bavaria (Train & Bus?)
2 nights in Bavaria
TRAVEL to MUNICH
2 nights in Munich
TRAVEL to SALZBURG
2 nights in Salzburg
TRAVEL to VIENNA
2 nights in Vienna
FLY HOME

Just for great info on trains - check www.bahn.de/en for schedules - general info - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com. Rome-Assisi best by train.

Thank you!

Not sure what "transit" is but if you mean public transport, I'd read P's links and then settle down with rome2rio and see the possibilities, the data behind the tool is not perfect but it gives you a very good idea of possibilities.

Thank you - Rome2Rio looks GREAT!

Don't count absolutely on Rome2Rio. It's gotten better in recent years, but it's not always entirely accurate. Back it up with other sources.

You're spending an inordinate amount of time traveling from place to place instead of enjoying places. I would assume, since you mention camping and hostels, that you are trying to stay within a budget on this trip. All those trips from place to place are going to add up to one big, expensive outlay of money.

For trains again www.bahn.de/en is the easiest bestest schedule site I've seen for all European trains but not buses - Rome2Rio great for non-train schedules.

I agree with StCirq, too busy a schedule to make this enjoyable and relatively inexpensive. Spending two nights in a place really only gives you a day to visit or a day and a half to visit. Did you investigate car rental or just assume it would be too expensive? It might be cheaper than paying for all that transportation for a family of four.

I would really advise cutting back on your itinerary. Way too many places to be enjoyable. You will see lots of train and bus stations but not too much of anything else. I would have every family member vote on their top two locations and just see those. Hopefully, you will have some overlap so can narrow your choices to far less than eight.

How are you going to manage tent camping - carrying sleeping bags and a tent on the train as well as luggage?

Agree with StCirq and KTravel

Rather than a Swiss Pass look at the Berner Oberland Pass - may cover more for less. Book Bern-Germany trains at www.bahn.de/en - no need of Swiss Pass to get really cheap farse by booking weeks in advance. Ditto for Italy-Switzerland at Acquista il biglietto con le nostre offerte - Trenitalia - www.seat61.com has loads of advice on booking own discounted tickets online - general train info BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

Stechelberg is a cute hamlet in gorgeous surroundings - hop postal bus there from Lauterbrunnen (trains there from Interlaken-Ost - coming from Italy change at Spiez for Interlaken-Ost.)

Thank you so much, PalenQ. I really appreciate the links and the encouragement! The Berner Oblerland Pass sounds perfect, since we're only visiting that region of Switzerland and it seems to be the trickiest to figure out, tickets-wise.

I appreciate KTravel and StCirq's concern and advice, but we're up for this itinerary. We like to keep moving and have done many trips that are only 2 nights in any spot. Our gear is light and appropriate for the trip. I just need advice on making the travel as efficient as possible, understanding that we'll spend a lot of time traveling, which we actually don't mind.

I haven't found a decent rate for a point-to-point car rental in Europe, especially when the points are in different countries. If there's a way to find a reasonable deal on that, we're definitely open to it! All advice on that question is welcome, even if we just rent a car for a day here or there. I'm thinking in particular of Cinque Terre to the Oberland and then Bern to Bavaria, which are the only travel days that look particularly challenging and expensive.

The cheapest way to get from Bern to Munich might be on the intercity bus. I recently discovered intercity buses myself - my maiden voyage was between Chur, Switzerland and Munich. It was great deal and an excellent option. I'm usually a train person, but the bus was less expensive (meaning less expensive than using trains with our Swiss Half Fare Card) and the connections were better - no changes, faster arrival. The bus driver helps you check your luggage in and it's placed in a special compartment and you're off. Easy. Toilets and refreshments on board. Wifi too.

No idea how this compares to car rental though as I've never rented a car in Switzerland. The train/bus system is just too easy and convenient.

Awesome - thank you!

Renting a car for a day here and there is rarely an advisable option. A single-day car rental typically costs about the same as a 3-day rental.

Have you checked out flixbus? I think your trip sounds fun. Glad to see famlies traveling and letting each do a country gets everyone involved. The beehive in Rome is great.

https://www.the-beehive.com/

https://www.flixbus.com/

Thank you, Macross!

When I mentioned car rental, I was thinking you would just keep one car the entire time since you are traveling so much. Yes, you might have to pay to park at some locations and could have a drop off fee since you'd be picking up in one country and dropping off in another but it might be worth checking out.

Buses can be cheaper and even quicker it seems but the views from bus windows are not nearly as sweet as from a train-especially if on bus you have an aisle seat. and for long bus runs just being stuck in your seat is a bummer IME - on a vacation take the train IMO.

I don't know what happens to prices once you get into Switzerland, but traveling by train from La Spezia (the closest major rail station to Biassa) to the Italian border should not be more expensive than renting a car if you buy a family ticket and book in advance.

Also be aware that even if you have found inexpensive lodgings in Biassa, it is a difficult location from which to enjoy le Cinque Terre in the peak of the tourist season. Although there is probably a bus that will take you to le Cinque Terre and back again, buses stop running in that part of Italy usually by 8pm, and it is not advisable to try to walk back to Biassa in the evening -- it might even be impossible, given the distance and the rough terrain. Many people who visit le Cinque Terre in summer complain that the seaside villages are too mobbed during the day to enjoy them, and that what is most enjoyable is to be there at night, when most of the tourists have left.

That said, if the point of going to this part of Italy is to experience an mostly unchanged, traditional Ligurian village, you are much more likely to have that experience in Biassa. -- and it can be a fabulously memorable experience. Depends on what you want, but I wanted to make sure you didn't end up disappointed if you had visions of enjoying famous walks in le Cinque Terre and seeing the famous 5 villages. It will be very time consuming to get there from Biassa and you will need to mind the bus schedule very closely to avoid an expensive taxi ride back to Biassa to sleep.

Thanks so much, PalenQ! I spent a LOT of time on the phone today with Byron from BETS (BETS-European Rail Experts) and he explained all my options and confirmed that our itinerary is very feasible. I think we've decided to go with an 8-day, 4 country Eurail Select Saver Pass plus youth passes for the kids. That will cover all our trains within and between countries with the exception of one or two of the cheapest trips (Rome to Assisi and Salzburg to Vienna priced out as our cheapest, which is great since we can pay for Rome to Assisi up front and then know that if we have to pay in Salzburg that it won't break the bank.).
We'll pay separately for the train in Cinque Terre if our legs decide they've had enough.
We'll pay separately for the buses and cable cars in Switzerland, but only need to ride those once or twice each, since we'll do most of the region on foot.
Our campground fee includes a local bus pass for Bavaria, so we're set there as well.
The country-specific passes (Italian Flexi or SwissPass) don't end up making sense because our two most expensive days BY FAR are Italy to Switzerland and Switzerland to Germany and I assume that we'd need to buy those tickets separately from the country-specific passes. If that's NOT the case, please advise and we'll reconsider the Oberland Regional or SwissPass.
We'll confirm timetables on www.bahn.de/en to ensure our routes, but it's looking good and is still less than a car rental, which was into the thousands of dollars for a drop off in another country.
Thanks so much for all of your input, everyone!
Ann

Thank you, kitbag! The AirBnB reviews for the place we found in Biassa indicated that it was feasible to go to and from the Cinque Terre to the house by bus, but I will check the schedules and touch base with the host again to be sure. We plan to set out early in the AM, do the walk throughout the day, then train and bus back to Biassa and eat dinner there. The challenge we found is that none of the campgrounds in the Cinque Terre accept reservations for only 2 nights and I am not comfortable arriving without a reservation and two kids in tow. Any suggestions for reasonable accommodations within the 5 villages that we can reserve in advance would be most appreciated. :)

Instead of looking in the hills at towns that require buses, check to see what might be available in towns along the train line when it comes to AirBnb or hostels or campgrounds, even small hotels. Using the train you will have a much more flexibility, and even a 35 minute train ride will be simpler than depending on a mastery of the bus schedules. The trains run frequently, even later at night and quite early in the mornings.

Check out Airbnb or other alternative lodgings for the towns of Bonassola, Deiva Marina, Moneglia and even Framura (although the train sometimes skips that stop). Sestri Levante and Chiavari are not to far to go although they might be pricier -- upside is that you'll be well positioned to head onwards to Switzerland.

It's also worth checking out, if you haven't already, what Airbnb might have in La Spezia and even Levanto -- although lots of people compete to use these towns as bases for le Cinque Terre in high season.

Most of the towns I have mentioned have one part of town that is near the sea and the train station, and another part of town that it is up a mountainside, and you might need a bus to get between it and the train station. If you come across attractive lodgings at an attractive price, be sure to look at a map to see how close it is to the train station. You want to be within reasonable walking distance, or else you might as well keep your booking in Biassa.

Edited to add: This might work for you

http://www.campingfornacialmare.it/Campeggio-EN.htm

Kitbag, you have given the OP such good advice, I am posting just to remember your posts.

I agree with Sassafrass. So nice to have advice and not snark. I am so glad your trip is coming together. We stayed in La Spezia for Cinque Terre. An apartment at Crismar hotel.Two bedrooms and kitchen. We had a long day and it was easy for us to walk there from train. Hope the trails will be open, it was my favorite part of Italy, The hiking was big enough for one person only on some parts but people were polite.

Don't think anyone above has a problem with evening alcohol :-)
I do think chosing wisely in CT at the top of the season is tricky and if kitbag has the local knowledge then go with it.

My only alternative thought is to consider using the ferries to tour CT, less walking, prettier views and while there will still be crowds it will not be heaving unlike the trains.

I mentioned your posts, Kitbag, because they were so detailed and specific to the OP's needs in one part of the trip. Now, I am disappointed. Personally, I do not think any of the prior responses had been at all snarky. It is a long, complicated itinerary with a travel style that I would not even think of attempting, so I had no advice. However, other posters' concerns were all quite valid and they were all polite and helpful in expressing them.

I guess if you figure in the time difference he might be right. We get so many answers about googling Sassafrass and other off hand remarks that are best left ignored. Kitbag has offered some great advice.

The ferry: buyer beware: We bought the rt ticket but after we hiked we went to get on and it stopped the run back to La Spezia early in the day so we had to take the train. Check schedule very carefully. I think they were catering to the cruise pax and not the people actually staying there. The views from the water were ok but the best view was from the hiking trails. Those iconic photos you see of CT were there. La Spezia is the port for the ships.

most expensive days BY FAR are Italy to Switzerland and Switzerland to Germany and I assume that we'd need to buy those tickets separately from the country-specific passes.> Yes - a Swiss Pass would cover parts in Switzerland only.

Thanks very much for the specific advice, kitbag. I'll go back to our CT section and have a look at what might be able to changed. I understand that our itinerary looks very ambitious, so am not surprised or put off by folks who say so. I get it - it looks crazy and isn't how many people would like to travel, but it works for us and we appreciate the knowledge and input from total strangers who are willing to take time to help us out.
Thanks to all of you and keep the ideas coming! :)

Different strokes for different folks - like you I like to travel fast.

kitbag is fairly new here but his/her style rings a bell!