WHEELCHAIRS and Europe
 

Greetings everyone!!! We are on a MED/EGYPT Cruise Sept 2011 on Mariner of the Seas. Leaving out of Rome to Sicily, Athens, Ephesus, Rhodes, Alexandria & Cario, with the last stop Naples. Our friend is not able to walk well and uses a cane most of the time but, we plan on taking the portable wheelchair on the tours. CAN WE SEE EVERYTHING? What limitations have you seen or delt with? We could really use the help with planning...

THANK YOU!
Sunny

It's not possible to see "everything", no matter how physically empowered you are. We recently returned from an independent Mediterranean trip and were very aware of possible limitations for a friend of ours who recently suffered a stroke and is now limited in her abilities. Europe is not as well equipped as the U.S. for travelers with limitations due to the antiquity of many of the most popular sites, but it can be managed.

My advice would be to rank the personal importance of what you want to see, develop an itinerary to see a few top sites in some kind of order that will not have you backtracking and losing time, and recognize that some places may have to be put on a "return trip" list. Then thoroughly enjoy what you can manage, and don't try to run through as many places as possible just to say you've been there. Immersing yourselves a few top sites without the stress of hurry will make for a much more pleasant trip.

Have a great trip!

I will speak to Cairo - not an easy place for a mobile pedestrian, much less someone in a wheelchair. Curbcuts are few, crossing the street involves sprinting since drivers ignore traffic lights and crosswalks. At places like pyramids, walkways are uneven, sometimes unpaved, often covered with sand. Access to bathrooms usually involves stairways. Ramps are almost non-existent, sidewalks narrow. Many shops involve a step or 2 from curb - which sounds like your friend could handle - but then issue of what to do with wheelchair. Distances from tour bus parking areas and actual site is often lengthy - and walking or pushing a wheelchair in the heat of September would be difficult. Best place to visit in Cairo might be the Museum. (As a rehab RN I tend to notice these things when I travel).

First of all, have your friend agreed to being pushed in a wheelchair? It's a huge step from a cane.

If yes, what about steps - and you'll see them a lot! Getting in and out of the wheelchair often may tire your friend out.

How is your friend's back? Jumping up and down on the cobblestones in the wheelchair is not fun, I think.

When you look at cruise-offered tours, you will see they have degrees of difficulty and notes in description. This may help, you don't have to take the same tours.

How many of you are going? Can you take turns to accompany your friend? Is the rest of your group strong enough to push the wheelchair all day? Don't think it's like pushing a baby stroller :)

Is your friend the type that want to participate in all activities with everybody all the time, or he can skip some of them?

How much of the above have you discussed with your friend? Everything must be out in the open before you leave, or everybody will be upset when their expectations are not met.

I have been to a few of these places and they were not designed for wheelchairs and have not been adapted. Athens and the Acropolis are out - even for canes probably. Think instead of a cruise as a little bit of a lot of things. You van never see a lot on a cruise. In the situation you describe, I would investigate private tours available at your various stops. It could be expensive, but you would be able to plan for your limitations.

You are visiting parts of Europe and the Med that are the least prepared to receive wheelchair bound travelers, so recalibrate your expectations. Your best best is to arrange private tours that will customize the sightseeing to you. This is definitely doable, many reputed companies at these ports who have made a profitable niche out of this type travelers. Get to cruisecritic.com and post your question(s) and also read on past experiences; no doubt somebody will have done it already.

>>Can we see everything<< is a bad expectation to have because NOBODY can see everything. You need to contact the cruise ship and ask them WHICH tour per port would accomodate a wheelchair. You need to include in the email the type wheelchair he uses, dimensions, description of his mobility, who will be the able-bodied person who will accompany him at all times. There is one wheelchair accesible tour in Cairo, he will be able to visit the Pyramids area but will be very limited how close will get. The visit to the Egyptian Museum could be challenging as well, but there is some elevator access to many important rooms. There is a reputed tour company in Cairo that specializes in wheelchair bound travelers. Their prices compare very well with the ship prices. Wednesdays are the worst day to visit the Egyptian Museum as it closes early. It gets crowded and pushy; not recommended to be nowhere near the place on a wheelchair.

THERE IS ELEVATOR ACCESS to the Acropolis (ever since the recent Olympic Games celebrated in Athens). Again, there are reputed companies in Athens that will help you with this.

Be careful of the scale that cruise ships use for their tours. We were on an Ocenia tour to Sidi Boui in Tunisia called easy..HaHaHa I am elderly but in excellent shape to walk, climb etc..I had a hard time and lesser, younger cruisers were in terrible shape. One man with a cane was not able to keep up let alone experience this tour. Same thing happened on a Windstar on Virgin Gorda..The baths that the cruise line arranged was impossible for many..I can't think of m if any trips overseas that are wheelchair friendly and allow the tourists to see, enjoy and experience the sites and sights..

Do not get discouraged by the above poster; no clue what he/she is talking about. I have been traveling with a wheelchair bound spouse for years and we have been overseas countless times, visited many countries from Russia to small islands in the Caribbean and enjoyed every second of it. The most important thing is to know to calibrate your expectations. The wheelchair WILL limit access and the amount of sightseeing you can do, but it DOES NOT/SHOULD NOT limit you from doing research and customizing the sightseeing to enjoy those things you CAN do. We did an INDEPENDENT tour of St. Petersburg (Russia) and my husband enjoyed it tremendously. In Greece we did a private tour and enjoyed the Acropolis (there is an ELEVATOR) and many sights. In Paris we went all over the place because I researched it very well; accesible metro stations, locations of elevators in the Louvre, etc.... We cruise every year and we always email the ship for special advice on the islands for wheelchair bound travelers. We have cruised four (4) cruiselines and NEVER been dissapointed with the wheelchair accesible rooms. I went up the Vatican Cupola in May 2008 and guess what?....two (2) wheelchair bound travelers were up there enjoying the view happy as can be!! It is all about preparation, expectations, and attitude! Have fun!! :-D

Just came back from Holyland cruise with similar ports. I can comment on my obersvation only for ports and attractions that I have visisted. If your friend can walk with a cane, that's good. He'll need to be mobile to get in and out of tenders if the ports are tender ports.

My suggestion is that your friend would be better off with a folding stool (where he can make frequernt stops and sit if needed to) rather than a folding wheel chair.

In general, here is what you may find:

Athens - wheelchair is generally acceesible, including Acropolis. With that said, most surface on the top of the Acropolis is not "paved" as it is raw and rough limestone surface. Pushing on a wheel chair is bouncy and will not be comfortable. There are lots of inclines as well. The stairs will limit the use of the wheelchair. The crowd should not be too bad in September but it will be crowded with school groups. Other locations within Athens, the streets are narrow and all the "old" places will have a couple of steps at least. If you plan to go to Delphi, it maybe a challenge for a wheel chair with the grades there.

Ephesus - best attraction in Ephesus is the Terrace Houses. No wheelchair accessibility and it is all stairs. The rest of the Ephesus ruins is wheelchair accessible. Warning: cobble stone surface. It will be bouncy and uncomfortable. There will be some restrictions on certain places he cannot access.

Alexandria - you will have better luck here but I can only comemnt on the port facilities and the Alexandria museum and the Pompey's Pillar. The Catcomb is defintely out.

Cario - you will have a very rough time there at the Egyptian Museum mainly due to heat and crowd. It is not a place for seniors. There is no AC in a hot, humid and crowded building. The outside temperature was 85 in October so September would be worst. A couple of seniros in our group had a very rough time with the humid and the heat. Pyramid should be okay but again, surface are not the best, and with sand in places, movements would be difficult and limited.

Naples should not be a major issue depending on what port.

A few thing to keep in mind, cobble stone road surafces, crowds, the pace of the tour (I'm able body and I find them fast) and the use of washroom facilities (not necessary wheelcahir accesible or clean)

You should read through the "physical activity level" needed requriement before you book any shore excursions or private tour. Make sure you tell them that you have some one on a wheel chair or have limited mobility. I would say any excursions or tours rated as "moderate" would warrant a clsoer examination.

If you are used to the level of wheelchair accessibilities within tourist places in North America, you will find Europe (in general) less accomodating and even less so in Egypt.

You can read my Holyland trip review here:
http://www.fodors.com/community/crui...in-october.cfm

Thank you all for your information! this will help us plan out the trip without too much.
I am still reading up on everything and planning plans. More ideas are welcome.

Sunny

I am in the planning stages for a new slow walker & wheelchair private shore excursion in Lisbon with a special van with ramp that can take 6 guests, so all the impute and help you can give will be gratefully received. There are probably things that I just would not think about because I am fit so let me know so that I can implement them. Finding that some of the world class museums here in Lisbon are wheelchair friendly, will keep you posted as I get the images up.

Mary, find out if a wheelchair-accessible restroom is needed, or the person can walk a little.

Going to a restaurant - is there a ramp, will the chair fit in the door.

Going to a museum - what is the size of their lift? Will the wheelchair fit in?

Dayenu: thanks for the suggestions I am drilling down from the most wheelchair friendly museums, restaurants some with images of the inside of the toilet, for example and the ramps. Got a great one of the chair in the big lift in the Lisbon Maritime museum. Obviously need to get the tape measure out for the doors and entrances. Keep the suggestions coming folks, it's just hard to think yourself into the mindset & "seatset" of the wheelchair and slow walkers brigade although September in Scotland with 86 year-old Aunt Nancy was helpful, her little 3 wheeler walker/zimmer frame let her go much further without getting too tired. I can get a fold-up wheelchair to go on the tour and think that the walker would be a good thing to have along too and maybe a folding stool (a slow walker perch)could do with one myself on a long days tour!

On the bus I've seen walkers with a seat that can be folded, this may be better than a folding stool. The difference is a sturdy seat of a walker vs. soft fabric seat of a folding stool - if the person has hip pain, sitting on a fabric seat can be painful.

You said, the person uses cane - if you come upon seat cane, don't take them unless well tested - some of them are uncomfortable when sitting, some don't give support when walking.

Buttom line: if you can, rent those things to test them out.

While folding stools might seem in theory an easy portable option, in fact they rarely work well - most people who have problems walking also have problems rising to stand from a sitting position - it's all in the knees and hips - and these things are not very stable and offer nothing to grab onto when rising to a standing position. Companions are left to haul the person to their feet, the stool tips, shoulders, backs and arms suffer.

Gail: good to know - this is just the details that I need to think about, even I have a bit of a back problem and it's the standing that gets me. Noticed most of the seats in museums are rather low. I just see lots of cruise passengers travel round Lisbon in a big coach bubble - they miss out on so much like the sounds, smells & people of my city. I just love to get my guests out and about even if it is only for a short while on my private tours http://www.your-lisbon-guide.com/tou...re-excursions/

Have a considered a motorised scooter? I have seen them on cruise ships and they are quite functionally while on board.

Onr more thing to consider is the differences in "personal space" between North Americans and Europeans. Also, based on the season, the crowds are a lot worse in Europe, and they seems less orderly (i.e. line ups, pushing through crowd etc.)

Again, in some older cities, cobble stone streets could post issues. Do as much home work and research and good luck!

johnwright12, ads are not permitted. And the poster's cruise was 3 months ago.

Here's what I would suggest. Please try to set up private tours in ports. This isn't going to be a cheap route, but for four people it probably will not be more expensive than organized tours. Limit yourself to one or two important things in each port. No, you will not be able to see everything, but you'll maximize your time and be able to possibly get closer to each attraction if you aren't in a big bus.

The positive part of the bus tours from the ships is that the buses are usually accessible, and the ships rate tours based on accessibility.

The one place where you may want to arrange a ship-sponsored tour is in Alexandria to Cairo. It's a rather long trip into the city (well over 2 hours drive). You can take a train, but it's tiring to deal with all the transportation hassles, so a bus is probably a wiser choice there. And you'll probably just want to see the pyramids anyway, and that's easily accomplished on a bus tour.

Let me add my "two cents" Last October Parrot Pop used a rollator and was able to get around as it folds to get in vans and taxis and best part when it opens there is a chair. We used private tours to the Pyramids and Sphinx, Corfu, Sicily, and Israel. You will find on other boards people with mobility problems who will want to share a tour..In Israel we had three "bucket" must see things, the Chagall Windows, The Western Wall and Yad Vashem..Wheel chairs were used in the airports and embarking and disembarking.Our embarking port was Rome and we managed to take taxis everywhere, Spanish Steps, Plaza Navarone, the Coluseum, Parthenon and Trevi Fountain ...all with a rollator..Last year little did we know that Parrot Pop was very ill and this would be his last trip/cruise. We were able to go over cobbled streets, and when he or myself got tired, we sat. The guide from Ramses tour (in Alexandria) help him up as far as he wanted to go to the Pyramids and the Spinx... We had lunch overlooking Mt. Etna, the rollator never stopped up..and in many sites there are elevators for the handicapped.