Peter

Apparently this is too long for one post!<BR><BR>Paul never answered my last question, but I'm going to write this diatribe anyway.<BR><BR>As I see it, there are three types of travel agencies today; and therefore three types of agents.<BR><BR>First, there is what I'll call the traditional travel agency. Before the internet, travelers only had two ways to book an airline ticket, for example. You could call the airline direct or you could call or go visit a local travel agency. They were typically located in shopping malls or strip malls and you literally went in, sat down and started booking your trip. They had the only means of finding the cheapest airline ticket or hotel room and they were the experts on cruises and their destinations and potential cruise lines to use. We had one of these agencies right in our Corporations headquarters building. The agents at these agencies were personally knowledgeable about vacation spots, cruises, charter airlines, etc. - everything you'd want to know about travel - because there was no alternative source. These agencies today have no web presence; or if they do, its simply a page displaying their telephone number and street address.<BR><BR>Second, there are what I'll call the dot.com travel agencies. They have almost exclusively a web presence and range from having full blown search engines on their web site that have access to all of the major cruise line sailings, prices and cabin availability to having multiple specials advertised and then an 800 number to call to explore them further. Examples of the former (full blown I'll call them) are cruise.com, cruise411, expedia.com. Examples of the latter (listing types) are crucon.com, buycruises.com, etc. These agents are MOSTLY order takers. Callers have usually already researched the itineraries, ships and prices and are calling to get the best price or maybe have a few general questions. These "agents" don't have to be extremely knowledgeable and they simply call the cruise lines while they have you on hold and get about the same price you could get by going directly to them yourself. Most will have an extra crown and anchor or captains club coupon to use for you so they can be $100-200 cheaper than the cruise lines. They coordinate getting your booking number and relay your tickets to you from the cruise line.<BR>

Peter

Bump

Myself

Peter,<BR><BR> Actually there is a fourth type of agent - the individual.<BR><BR> I know there are great travel agents, you may even be one. The fact, however, is that the Internet has permanently changed the ability of the individual to manage his/her own travel. Travel information is almost unlimited these days. Very little time needs to be spent on research to develop extensive knowledge on travel related subjects.<BR><BR> I used to use a great agent, who retired. Much of her decision was because airlines realized that internet booking was their future. She was quickly losing her commissions, which were further squeezed when the airlines reduced the commissions for those who did use agents. Same work for less money, so she gave it up. <BR><BR>Like many people I now do all my own airline booking online, saving both time and money. Virtually all the airlines now offer discounts for on line booking.<BR> <BR> The same thing is already happening with cruises. The cruise lines have walked more softly than the airlines, but they too are moving towards an online booking environment. They will soon offer special discounts on their own sites to encourage direct on line booking. As more passengers become comfortable booking on line and, when necessary, dealing directly with the cruise lines, agents will lose even more business.<BR><BR> Not many agents booking cruises today will survive. Cruises are booking to a mass market, and they will fully use the Internet just as the airlines do. Some speciality agents may survive, along with the national chains, but the "mom and pops" are history. It is sad, but it is inevitable.<BR><BR> Last month I booked a cruise on line with a major cruise line. I did all my research, carefully shopped price both on the cruise line sites and on line travel agents, and got the best deal with the line. No hustle, no hassle, and all on my time and my schedule. I sent an e-mail to a friend and he and his wife booked the same cruise in the adjacent stateroom. If an issue comes up I will handle it with the cruise line - just as the agents do. <BR><BR> I wish you and all travel agents the best. If you are good you may survive. <BR><BR> No flames here people. If you find an agent to be helpful then go for it. If not you can easily do it yourself. My point is to recognize that the traditional travel agent is going the way of the dinosaur. Enjoy their free help while you can. Soon you will pay travel agents extra fees and premium prices just as now do for the airlines.

Youmaybe right

Peter-- I LOVE your comment-"FREE ADVICE"--- That is ALL that people LIKE YOU USE a travel agent for---<BR><BR>MOST of these good agents have spent time and money going to the places that they reccommend--- I am SURE the ONLINE booking takers are just that: AGENTS that have NEVER been to WHERE they are selling....<BR><BR>You can research all you want on the INTERNET and you may luck out-<BR>But if you pick by PICTURE and book on your own,let the buyer beware--<BR><BR>I am an agent that works at a MOM and POP Agency with almost 20 years experience in ALL types of travel-with a good emphasis on moderate to LUXURY travel..<BR>You are not going to get my BRAIN on the Internet while you are surfing for your "deal"....ie,places I have been that I know are good or bad!<BR><BR>All I can say is, when it all boils down to doing the homework and booking on your own-you will WISH you had an agent to help when it all hits the fan!<BR>

YouMayBeRIght

APOLOGIES to Peter for saying "FREE ADVICE"---I should have directed my TIRADE to "MYSELF([email protected]

Peter

Apology accepted; but, don't you think that this particular Forum is a place where travellers can share their experiences with each other. That way, all the knowledge gets passed back and forth and we won't need the expertise of the travel agent. Surely you believe in this concept or you wouldn't be on this site.

maryann

Last year, we booked directly with HAL, had great service and all was as advertized. The price went down before sailing and we called and received the reduction with no hassle. I kept checking the .com agencies and elsewhere and no one had a lower price.<BR><BR>This year HAL has a new department of Personal Cruise Consultants, we booked a back-to-back for 2003 and have great service with Sandy.<BR><BR>Just thought you would like to know.

ginger

What I want to know is how many of you are small business owners? How many of you work for small businesses? Do you realize that Mom and Pop agencies are no different- if you don't book with us, we close. If we don't buy from you, you close.<BR><BR>Our agency is closing in two weeks. Not because of lack of service, but because people keep booking direct. I celebrated my 6th anniversary of being a travel agent the day after we got the news that we are closing.<BR><BR>But what burns my butt (other than the small business owners who book direct when there is NO saving to them) are the three ladies in the past week that have come in for brochures. We can tell by the demeanour that they booked direct, and they just want to pick up brochures from us.<BR><BR>If you want to book with whomever, get the damned brochures from them.<BR><BR>I loved my job. I still want to try and do outside sales. But I am not losing this job because of anything I did. I am losing it because people think they get a better deal on the net. People think it is so fun to book direct when I can give them service the net can't. Carnival or Princess is not going to put wine in your cabin and call you when you get back.<BR><BR>And as for the groups we book, I would love to see someone handle a group of 104 passengers. Dining assignments, names, keeping track of payments. Yes, some do it, but we have it down to an art form. We also enjoy doing it because we have perfected the art of group bookings.<BR><BR><BR>

maryann

Ginger-I can see that you would be upset 'cause your business is closing. Years ago, noone could book cruises,airlines,tour packages without a travel agent. Those companies didn't even provide a number or address where a customer could call. Now everyone has 800's and websites. THEY are putting you out of business by making it convenient for the consumer.<BR><BR>How many small business tank when a Wal-Mart opens? or a Home Depot?, it's now happening to the travel agency industry. There will always be people who cannot do it on their own, so there will always be travel agencies, just not one in every strip mall. <BR><BR>You are right about group travel, agencies are great. As for brochures, they are no cost to you. AND you receive 15% com. on the cruises, how much is wine $20-$25?<BR><BR>After years as a hotel sales mgr. and tour operator, I have dealt with many travel agents in many countries. There will be less of them but they will not all be gone.

def

Peter - I answer questions on here if I feel I can help--I don't reccommend one line over another-nor do I advertize- I am just being a nice person--PERIOD.<BR>However, I do like to WORK for a living as do YOU!.<BR><BR>Kudos to Ginger, a fellow agent- guess what Ginger, our agency is going to be closing also after being in business for over 15 years! It is definitely the pits- Now who am I going to give my <BR>"Free" advice too and who will I give those " free brochures "to?<BR><BR>TO MARY ANN-- WHERE in the WORLD do you ASSUME we make 15% on cruise bookings?!<BR>Our agency only makes 10% ! Not a lot of money considering a lot of you come in more than 3 times picking my brain for at least an hour of my time each time! The average cruise com is about <BR>$200 total- The agencies are NOT charging ENOUGH in their FEES to even break even...It costs an agency $15 to RUN a ticket for you--by the time they finish paying rent,elec.phone,computer rental and salaries ,there is almost NO profit...My bosses have NOT taken any salaries for the past year!!! <BR><BR>WOULD YOU work for FREE? I DON'T THINK SO!!!<BR><BR>

Dean

10% commission, something is wrong, I joined a consortium and get 15% on Carnival and the family, 17% on NCL and 18% on RCCL and Celebrity, I dont undercut or remove any commission, I am glad to see that once folks get your trust that you are honest and always give them fair honest service and are reliable and serve them with integrity, they keep coming back. Let those who want to call carnival direct do so, they pay more in the long run and what do those people think, aha I have done it myself, well masterbation gets old after awhile, it is nice to let someone else do the work.

def

Dean- Nice post--the 10% is for a reason. Our agency CAN'T afford to join a consortium.....We used to belong years ago, but only made a 12% commission--- Cost outweighed the number of clients actually coming in to book, so the owners dropped it.....

Starfish

I found most Ta's are clueless. An example: I had done some homework on my own, and went into a Cruise Only Ta. I explained I had only sailed on the Norway and was looking for something more upscale, newer and was even considering a suite. She recommended Dolphin!!!<BR>I knew more about different cruise lines and ships than she did.<BR>I have found you can find .com that will beat local ta's and the cruise line's prices.

another

Starfish,<BR>I am a travel consultant, and I had never, ever even suggested Dolfin to anyone, nor Big Red Boat. Some might call me a snob, but I am a consumer too. I would be furious with anyone that tried to sell me something because they didn't think that I LOOKED a certain way. I want the most for my money just like you do. I am a Princess, Royal Caribbean and Celebrity cruiser. There are those that are more in line with HAL, due to their age. It is all about listening to what your client wants. Qualifiying. Sometimes there are people that want a higher end product and they cannot afford it for a week. Would I sell a "lesser" product just to make the sale? No, I will offer maybe a shorter cruise so they will have a wonderful experience and return to me. My goal is repeat business, which I have. <BR><BR>There ARE bad agents out there. They are the ones that come and go in this business. They don't last for a reason. I have been around for 9 years and I am fortunate. My job is solid. I am so sorry for Ginger and those others that are faced with new chanllenges. Ginger will survive, she is a good agent and she will make it on her own. I know a bit about her and she is tough....(Ginger, we are friends in another WORLD)<BR><BR>I am not an agent that says that you cannot do it on your own. You can. We just offer a more complete package for those that like human interaction and first hand experience. I have been on 10 cruises and have stayed in an inside cabin (1)to outside to balconies. I have pictures (mine) and I can share honestly my opinion. Some may find that of value, some may not. I am just thrilled when I can help someone. for those that do not require help...good for you. Really, not meant snotty. And I sincerely hope that you can get an online agent to assist you should the rare problem arise. But remember, the person you are booking with on the other end is a travel agent too.<BR><BR>Have a good day!

Peter

another - I like the tone of your response - not the typical travel agent snottiness. One question though. You state that even if you are booking online, you're booking with a travel agent. I honestly believe that when I go online to expedia, lets say, and book an airline ticket, a hotel room and a rental car - that no travel agent touches that info. Yes, there are other business functions that come into play like accounting, sales, etc. but that comes with any transaction based business. Why do you say there's a travel agent on the ohter end of my Expedia booking?

another

Peter,<BR>I have talked with former agents for the dot coms. Now, I really have no idea how the process goes from beginning to end, but when a problem arises and you call the 800#, you are in essence talking to a travel agent. Some may call it customer service or what-have-you. They have to be trained in the products that they sell so they can thwart any thing that comes up. <BR><BR>Anyone that is on the receiving end of a phone call is an "agent" for their company. The difference may very well be in the terminology. I think of myself as a counselor. I am not an "agent" for any one product. I try to match clients needs with the product line they are interested in.<BR><BR>Wow, Peter. You and I having a civil conversation. How refreshing!

Paul Therault

Peter<BR><BR>Nice copying .... again. Anyone that follows your replies knows that it is not your writing.<BR><BR>And here is a note of interest .... TA's sell 75% of all cruises.<BR><BR>Paul

Peter

So Paul, of the 75%, how is that split between travel agents with an internet presence and with no internet presence (like yours)? And how much of the 75% is thru the internet where the traveller basically "books" their own thru an Expedia, Cruise411, Cruise.com, MyTravelCo, etc etc etc.?<BR><BR>And P.S. - does anyone know what this 75 year old man is talking about -"Nice copying .... again. Anyone that follows your replies knows that it is not your writing." ???????????????<BR>

Paul Therault

Peter, you can define travel agents anyway you like. <BR><BR>I repeat, I do not copy except for "Cruisenews" and I do not cut and paste due to copyright infringement.<BR><BR>Paul

Judy

Hi..I'm a former travel agent with over 20 years experience. Years ago I realized I could not compete with "cruise only" agencies who would kick back most of their commission. I specialized in international travel, luxury and adventure travel and it was far less frustrating than competing for cruise business. <BR><BR>Recently, I had the occasion to book a trans-canal cruise for my husband and me. I did a lot of research on-line as to the cruise line and time-limitations. I decided on Celebrity's Infinity. I priced the trip on Celebrity's website, Expedia, and the agency I last worked at. Celebrity was higher than all of the above. Then I submitted a quote thru buycruises.com. I received a prompt and profeesional quote from Suzanne...and it was MUCH lower than anywhere else. She has tons of experience and is very quick to respond to any questions or requests I have...much quicker than an overworked traditional travel agent who is trying to book cruises, airline ticket, Las Vegas, Disney, etc. After going on a last minute (booked by my friend) horrible Carnival cruisde, I promptly upgraded to a sky suite....it was less than the highest regular cabin with balcony. <BR><BR>If you book direct with the cruise line, you most generally pay the brochure price...unless you get a last minute special on their website.<BR><BR>So, I guess the point of this is to weigh all options. I know the agents I worked with who sold cruises were very well versed with every ship and cruise line but often unable to compete with cruise only agencies whether on-line or 800#. <BR>