To Geoff,<BR>The cost of drinks on Carnival high?<BR>In September mixed drinks were $4.54 Including Gratuity. If you think this is high, I do not know where you are buying Drinks, but I sure would like to find it.<BR>As Paul said, on Carnival, NCL and others who add tip to the Shipboard Account these can easily be reduced if desired at the Service Desk.<BR>

Who is talking about Western Europe anyway - there is more to the world than Western Europe and America<BR>

I agree with Xman - if you are going to look at Western Europe then paying for a professional, well dressed, well mannered waiter is quite different from the usual 'run of the mill' waiters who are passing though as he said. I mean every mother every day waits on their family so whats is so hard about that. <BR>If you are that keen on seeing that people in poor countries don't get shafted then you could make a direct donation or aggitate to try and take away the system that cruise lines have of getting away from paying staff what they should be entitled to as wages by registering in some obscure port. <BR>It doesn't matter whether 90% of people on a cruise are Americans or not that fact is that if it is in foreign waters and foreign registered - it not American. <BR>Perhaps if Americans had less of a "do it our way or else" attitude it would not be in Afghanistan at this moment.

Don't know how we went from tipping to Afghanistan, but couldn't let such a statement slip by without my two cents worth. We're there Suzie because on September 11th over 3,000 innocent American citizens were murdered on US soil. Your other statement about mothers is too ridiculous for comment.

Yes, there is John. And you certainly won't find it on the prepackaged self contained xenophobic world of a cruise line.<BR><BR>And the comment concerning Europe was the prix fixe or included tipping that the cruise lines are trying to pawn off on you the patron.<BR><BR>One thing xman didn't mention. you don't have to patronize a restaurant if you are not happy with the service. You're stuck on a ship along with the "hoops they make you jump through" to remove a tip, because of poor service.<BR><BR>Why do I say this because I like many others had poor service on a Carnival ship and did not feel the staff should be rewarded for disgraceful service.

I think what others are trying to say here is that all too often we Americans are too inflexible with our ideas and force them onto others who feel that they don't need them in the first place. <BR>The reference to mothers meant ( I think) that it is not very hard to be a meal server and I for one agree with that statement as most cruise waiters are nothing out of the ordinary

<BR>Isn't this fun. I'll bet this thread will go upwards to 125 replies.<BR><BR>I'll agree with Albert.<BR><BR>Paul

It seems everyone has forgotten Craigs orginal question?

Not really Udog. Most people have shown that mandatory tipping on Carnival cruise lines does not have a positive affect on anyone. Patron and employee alike. The only beneficiary is CCL because they can pay their employees less.<BR><BR>The forms needed to remove unwanted tips are difficult to obtain. Thereby frustrating the average person in to the "Aw forget it" mode. And CCL wins. This company and RCCL practice the barrier ploy that insurance companys use. They figure sooner or later you will give up, and they win by default.<BR><BR>Most people in this post have stated this in one form or another so I would say Craig's question has been suitably answered.<BR><BR>Paul and his brethern will repeatedly attempt to dilute the comments made against CCL for who knows what reasons. The explanation is simple though. The majority of complaints lodged against cruise lines are against CCL & RCCL. <BR><BR>And don't tell me it's because they sell the most. Ex: Verizon wireless covers over half the cell service in this country and they have the least complaints (and they are much bigger than both cruise lines combined).

The cruise lines have agreed that mandatory tipping does favor the crew. RCCL, I'm sure, will institute the policy soon.<BR><BR>Princess will start in January.<BR><BR>I am pro-cruising not just pro-<BR>Carnival.<BR><BR>Paul

No Paul. It favors the cruise lines. They now can pay their employees less, and defer any costs to you the patron. Also, this price increase does not have to be reflected in their brochures. The patron now gets a false impression of pricing for a cruise. These kinds of tactics are unethical. Hiding costs like these only shows their disdain for their customers.

What's hidden, or new? Cruise lines' brochures have always explained "suggested" tips -- it is no more of a hassle to tip "voluntarily" than to get out of one which is "mandatory." This whole discussion -- hiding behind America vs. the rest of the world on what we pretend others' tipping practices are -- all to save a few bucks and find a reason to stress out during a vacation -- is incredible.

I am flabergasted by this whole issue of tipping. Fact is the large US controlled cruise lines pay what tantamount adds up to stavation wages for most of the 'in service' crew. They do this because American consumers want the lowest possible cruise prices and many people shop on price. Mandatory tipping...I cannot comment but I can tell you that I always tip well for good service. The problem is that many people simly do not. They are either too selfish or just too damm cheap. Instead of thinking ourselves so much and our upgrades or if the orange juice is cold think for a minute about the people who make you vacation an enjoyable experience. They are constantly away from home for one reason<BR>and one reason alone-to provide for their families in some less developed country. They earn our respect by working hard to make a better life. In this north american milieu of abundance I simply cannot believe how someone would be so mean as to not give them a helping hand for services rendered. I am convinced that this thread is about money, all excuses aside. Look around-would you like to trade places with these folks????

No this thread is about the insular, gullable and parochial attitudes of Americans who refuse to realize that the rest of the world turns whilst they don't. <BR>Bull....t that you tip to "Help" those in need who are feeding their family in worse off countries than your own. You do it because you have peer pressure to do it and you are conned into thinking that it is a wonderful thing to do. If no-one did it the cruise lines would not have employees and would have to come to the party and actually pay for staff just like the rest of the world has to pay for staff when they are hired. <BR>Get your head out of the sand and look around you - America is on the verge of being a third world country itself.

Could someone please point me to the area that talks about tipping on the Carnival cruise lines site. <BR>I have noticed the Holland America lines do not encourage tipping but I would like to see the clause on the Carnival Cruise site that explains why they don't pay their staff.

Peter. Even the illustrious Paul will tell you these people average $40,000.00<BR>on a good year. Sure I'll trade places with them. No formal education, and they make more money than most college grads. Not a bad deal. And Peter they pay the same any bartender makes in the U.S.<BR><BR>The issue at hand is that tipping is for GOOD service rendered. It should not be automatic in this situation. And to compare it to European standards only shows the posters ignorance. In most cases Europe will always be heads above any American run cruise line because they believe in a sense of professionalism and self-pride that these mega cruise lines will never have.<BR><BR>The people that frequent these lines are attracted by the same thing the CCL's & RCCL's hold most dear. Making or saving a buck. So birds of a feather.

Kudos to Peter Ed and Albert, they are the few that makes any sense on this thread.<BR><BR>And to all the xxxx's I went through the income thing in past threads and you all continue to bring it up.<BR><BR>When you calculate the hours and months they work every single day they earn what we call grub wages. And I am not going to break it down again. Every single penny goes back to their families. It is very sad. Talk to them about their famiies and don't be so snobbish. And whoever thinks it could be described as peer pressure ... I think not.<BR><BR>Sure mistakes are made and we all make mistakes. Remember your first job? They realize they make mistakes and they know that they have to do better. Don't we all.<BR><BR>Reduce your tip if you see fit but to not tip at all ..... we will revert back to the "blowhard" theory. They are all over this thread. <BR><BR>Did I insult a few? I hope so.<BR><BR>Paul

Paul - you are a self-opinionated blinkered dick-head

Jennifer, please go back to the teen chatrooms from whence you came. Self-opinionated? Would you rather have folks express the opinions of others? Paul is so right -- these folks work VERY long hours every day for months at a time. In U.S. restaurants wait staff can also be paid poorly with the idea that they'll make it up in tips. Is the typical cruise waiter the same as in a Michelin 3-star Parisian restaurant, of course not? But I tip well for a pleasant kid making pin money at the local chain restaurant, and if I know (and there's NO excuse for not knowing) that tipping is the norm on a cruise, I should tip. Less or nothing for lousy service, but average to much more for good service. And Teresa is correct -- if you cannot afford the entire cost of the vacation, find something else to do.

Jennifer your message to Paul shows just how "classy" you are!It's very doubtful you will ever rise above a Carnival or RCCL cruise.<BR>Re/ "tipping", people should tip if they want,how much they want,or not at all if it's warranted.All you have to do is have the automatic tips removed from your account at the pursers desk!<BR>As far as the ships being registered in foreign countries,yes they do this to an extent to escape taxes and other regulations that would add hundreds to the cost of a cruise and put a cruise out of reach of many.How many posts do you see wherein someone is raising hell about the cost of a coke for the kid,but will spend hundreds to drink themselves silly with nary a word about the bar bill!If you can afford to pay for a cruise, you should be able to pay for the tips,(again-if they are warranted).<BR>Just trying to point out that there is always something to gripe about and some folks are bound to find it!<BR>To all,gripers ,Carnival bashers, Carnivel lovers, RCCl devotees and the rest,I sincerely wish you all happy and safe Holidays.<BR>