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Legal liability of Australians tipping. BEWARE

Legal liability of Australians tipping. BEWARE

Aug 14th, 2015, 06:53 AM
  #1  
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Legal liability of Australians tipping. BEWARE

Read this on another website, I spoke to lawyer who said yes Australians are liable overseas if they pay a gratuity or tip as that is deemed the person wage under the Act and the person they tipped injuries themselves anywhere on the cruiseship, it does not even need to be in the Australian's stateroom!

So beware - make sure you remove any autogratuity (and don't tip at end of cruise) or your room attendant could sue and end up with your house.

Quote

The Model Work Health and Safety (WHS) Act is quite clear you are responsible for the injuries of your employees, service agents and contractors. If you are Australian and pay gratuities on cruise ship then you are potentially liable. So the room attendant injuries themselves making your bed. Now do you think the courts in Liberia where the cruise ship is registered will award compemsation. – no. So they will file a case against you and get Australian payout. So if you tip, you are personally liable, so don’t tip unless your an idiot and want to risk losing your house.
MaryTanaka is offline  
Aug 14th, 2015, 02:48 PM
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You can't be serious.
jacketwatch is offline  
Aug 14th, 2015, 05:45 PM
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This should be posted to the inflamed tipping threads on the Europe board

janisj is offline  
Aug 14th, 2015, 06:01 PM
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Yep it true, H&S is crazy in Australia. Princess and P&O now scrapped tipping in Australia, presumably to protect us from being sued for workers compensation - thanks.


Read this link, a couple from Brisbane had to pay $2500 to a waiter who tripped.

http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/tip...ml#post1522871
MaryTanaka is offline  
Aug 14th, 2015, 10:21 PM
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The link is actually an article with another link which is from 4 yrs. ago and sys nothing about tippers being sued. Rather it's an article about the Princess CEO and his comments about Aussies tippers.
jacketwatch is offline  
Aug 14th, 2015, 10:22 PM
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Actually it was the CEO for X.
jacketwatch is offline  
Aug 15th, 2015, 09:46 AM
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Sounds like the Aussies are pretty smart. Get this internet rumor started, so they can justify not tipping. Have to work on this for the US.
fmpden is offline  
Aug 16th, 2015, 03:02 AM
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I think this is ridiculous. I did note "potentially" because it certainly is a stretch!
Cathinjoetown is offline  
Aug 17th, 2015, 10:06 AM
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The original post is completely bogus in the sense that a tipper would be liable as the act of tipping would make the tipper an "employer". Tipping is a "gift, reward or present", as in gratuity.

For those not familiar with the Australian Model Work Health and Safety Act, it is one and the same as the Worker's Compensation legislation in North America.

For those interested in the Australian Model Work Health and Safety Bill, the pdf link is here. Be forewarned that this is very dry reading. But take a peek at Page 8 anyway as it describe the definition of an "employer".
http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/..._June_2011.pdf
https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2...#_Toc309986532

Under Australian law, which closely follow the British common law, "joint liability" would see to it that not a single individual would be hold liable to the $2,500 as indicated by the poster as the establishment, it's directors, owner etc would all be jointly liable, unless it is an act that the tipper alone has control (as an example: asking the waiter to run across the street and get a pack of cigarettes and was run over by a bus along the way ... fictitiously speaking ). With a good lawyer, they can still make the establishment jointly liable.

Here is the real deal ... a tipping guide on the Australian "goodfood" web page.
http://www.goodfood.com.au/good-food...228-2f7vz.html
Eschew is offline  
Aug 17th, 2015, 02:23 PM
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That's interesting. I had always heard from Aussies I met that tipping was not done. The time we met the last Dogster he made it clear that tipping was not done in Oz. We had dinner with him and Sass at the Tuscan Grille on the Connie and he was nearly aghast that I left a tip. .
jacketwatch is offline  
Aug 17th, 2015, 02:28 PM
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Meant to say "late" Dogster.
jacketwatch is offline  
Aug 20th, 2015, 08:01 PM
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It's not compuslory to tip in Australia. But if dinner and service is great i usually leave something.
I'm off to US next month, hate to see how much i will spend just on tipping. What is the going rate for porters who bring your bags to your room? Does it depend on how many bags or a fixed amount ?
hansella is offline  
Aug 22nd, 2015, 04:41 AM
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Actually 2-3 bucks is normally just fine. If we have a lot of bags and they are heavy then 5 bucks. It works for me.
jacketwatch is offline  
Aug 24th, 2015, 08:19 PM
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Larry, things have changed in OZ. With in flux of foreigners (namely tourists), tipping is becoming more common in major centers and many tourist destinations, much to the horror of the locals.
Eschew is offline  
Aug 25th, 2015, 01:27 AM
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I'll bet. From what I have seen the Aussies just hate that idea. On another travel site or maybe it was here I recall one Aussie saying he did not want US tourists tipping because then that expectation could eventually fall to them. Perhaps he was right.
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Aug 30th, 2015, 11:59 AM
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bad link for this ad. .
jacketwatch is offline  
Sep 4th, 2015, 02:24 PM
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Haha, Finns and Brits don't like tipping either, but this seems like a job from the Aussie Labour Department or the Restaurant Union
LoadsOfRoads is offline  
Sep 14th, 2015, 12:50 AM
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Actually being Australian, the law in Australia is different than the USA. They are completely separate country's, so please do not say something stupid that the law it is one and the same as the USA.

The issue boils down to autogratuity and how it is treated.

If you take the view that a gratuity on a cruise ship is an integral part of a persons wage, then who ever pays a wage is an employee.

If you take the view that an autogratuity is not part the persons wage, then there is no obligation to pay it.

So if you are an Australian (who is subject to Australian law, then the person who pays it (the passenger) then they are arguably viewed as an employer. Or if you don't pay it, people from the USA get upset that you are shafting the employee and they rely on the gratuity as part of their wage.

However note that many cruise ships that operate from Australia, do not have tipping and pay the employees a higher wage. This therefore protects the passengers from any potential workers compensation claim.
TonySmythe is offline  
Sep 14th, 2015, 04:25 AM
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What cruise lines operate from Oz that pay higher wages?

The mass market lines don't.

A ships employee getting a tip or whatever you want to call it and then suing the passenger as an employer is so far fetched that it boggles the mind how it could happen. If that crewman is my employee then what can't I fire, demote, promote, reassign, etc. Just pay it. You won't be sued.

JM2C.
jacketwatch is offline  
Sep 14th, 2015, 11:12 AM
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First and only post by TonySmythe, and there are a number of issues with his arguments.

My comment of "one and the same" indicated that the intention of the legislation are the same: to protect employees and their safety. It was never meant to mean the law is the same in both countries, and it clearly doesn't. He obviously did not read my post as the link I provide is to the Australian Government web page with the Australia legislation. There is no reference to any other country's law.

Another issue being the "tipping" on most cruise ships are "optional" as you can opt out and don't pay the daily amount, or any amount at all.

The law of the land is that if I am in Australia, I have to live by the Australian rules. If I break Australian laws in Australia, I will be subject to the Australia judicial system: meaning if I tip in Australia, I can be deemed "an employer". Does it mean anyone who tips in Australia can be deemed an employer while in Australia?

The same issue also raises the question if an Australia breaks Australian rules while out of Australia, are they subject to the Australian judicial system? Sometimes they are (drugs and child sex crimes come to mind) and most of the times they are not, depending if the legislation specifically states that you can be prosecuted locally for a crime that is committed out of the country.

As the cruise ship operates both in high sea and Australian waters, when does the Australian rules applies? Where and how to make the determination?

The arguments presented are not too convincing. Maybe someone should contact a lawyer in Australia who specialize in the Australian Model Work Health and Safety Bill and get a definitive answer, or info on the actual court case # or news article where the alleged incidence took place.
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