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you are not the first... from 2006
Unethical agent Posted by: Steve007NY on Jun 2, 2006 at 09:21 AM
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Have any of you had dealings with ecruisestore.com? I've spent the better part of the past couple of days dealing with what I consider to be a highly unethical agent. Only AFTER charging a cruise in full to my credit card did he begin to add conditions to the promised shipboard credit. Since the payment, Princess says, was in full, it's neither refundable nor transferable to another agent.

I've got many many emails documenting the issues (after the agent, Richard Tanner, threatened to 'work to destroy my business' during a phone call, I refused to correspond other than by email, but I'm being catch-22'd. Diners Club says "we can't open a dispute until the charge goes through. Agent won't put the charge through until I sign a statement that I was informed about cancellation policies (I wasn't) and that the contract includes everything I was promised (it doesn't). Princess says it's booked, and I'm subject to cancellation.

Understand, I DO want to go on the ship on which I'm booked, in the room in which I'm booked, on the date I chose. I can't, however, either agree to things that are lies, nor do I feel good about an unethical agent- especially one who has threatened me- making a commission on my room while not delivering what is promised.

Any attorneys out there, or folks who have had similar bad experiences who can offer guidance?

Thanks
Steve

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BeachBoi on Jun 2, 06 at 09:58 AM
Steve..NOT a lawyer...But, if Princess is saying the cruise is PAID IN FULL, then the charge has gone through.The agent called the credit card payment into Princess.It's a done deal.The murky issue seems to be the agent's BS.In this case, Princess is the "marchant" not the "agent". The Agent is just that, the middle man.That is at least my understanding of what happens when I book a cruise through my own Travel Agent.In any case, best of luck.Have fun on your cruise.

Suerich68 on Jun 2, 06 at 10:11 AM
Steve,
I've been using the same agent for years, and we just booked a cruise to Mexico in December. He told me that we could get a $300 shipboard credit if we used Amex, so I did. He subsequently told me that my card did not qualify for the credit as albeit platinum, it is a "cash rebate" card.

Enjoy your cruise.

Steve007NY on Jun 2, 06 at 10:14 AM
It's hard to believe the sorts of emails we've been exchanging....as this one, below.

RE: invoice xxx69 for $2909, hold placed on my Diner's club card, for cabin xxx on Crown Princess sailing Date

Dr.

Apparently you have discovered you have a better price and booking than was being offered.

ME-I will gladly accept an offer for EXACTLY the same amount as you had originally quoted to me, -and so declare to Princess cruises and Diners Club-or, frankly, pay MORE not to have to deal with someone of your questionable integrity. You are, am I not correct?, unwilling to release the reservation with Princess cruises, answer my questions about how to sign the charge slip, or make good on your promises to me.

AGENT-The required forms must be filled out for the full amount charged for your booking to prevent any interruption of the documentation process or on yourr boarding.

me-I have asked you the specific question of how to fill out the forms without lying and saying you informed me of cancellation penalties, which you certainly did not.

agent-we do beleive that you fully understood the importance of the representation of past passenger status when obtaining price quotes.

me-I have no way of knowing why you believe that, especially in light of the virtually immediate response on my part as soon as you mentioned contingencies with respect to the credit, and with NO documentation in any of your emails that the credit was in any way tied to my past passenger status

With regards to your threat of dissemination of faulty information regarding this booking and the agency. We will pursue any means available to defend, counter and protect our interests against any unwarranted claims made by you.

me-I would never under any circumstances disseminate "faulty... or unwarranted" claims, only issues for which I have clear, written (email) documentation.

I consider it, frankly, quite bizarre that you would so fervently work to make it impossible for me to move to another agent. HOW, I ASK AGAIN, DO I ADRESS THE PART OF THE FORM THAT WOULD, IF I ENDORSE IT, FORCE ME TO LIE ABOUT YOUR DISCLOSURE OF CANCELLATION CHARGES AND FAILURE TO INCLUDE THE CREDIT IN THE INVOICE?

Your most recent email, threatening to void the $37.50 offer, once again demonstrates your unwillingness/inability to be held to your (even written) agreements.

Awaiting your written reply.

Suerich68 on Jun 2, 06 at 10:59 AM
Exactly why I prefer a living, breathing person whom I have actually met as well as spoken to on the phone. He also treats us very fairly, & gets us some good deals.

No email trails for me, I don't care how much more I can save.

Ziana on Jun 2, 06 at 11:25 AM
Isn't it true for every cruise line that until paid in full you can get adjustment for lower price if avail?
So I would say cancellation policy available to read - but who does? Wasn't it available to you?
Is Richard Tanner the owner of ecruisestore? If not I would ask for owner. If yes - I would cancel it.
And re-book with somebody else.
How does Richard Tanner knows you have business? If this is legal business how could he destroy it?
I can ask tons more questions but there is a way if there is a will...

Steve007NY on Jun 2, 06 at 08:21 PM
thought some of you might benefit from the longer version on Cruisecritic.com http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=356607

abram on Jun 2, 06 at 11:44 PM
When I clicked on your link, cruise critic said it was an invalid thread.

Steve007NY on Jun 3, 06 at 04:45 AM
Looks like there's sensorship on the Cruisecritic board, since the entire thread has 'disappeared'. Will keep you posted

Steve007NY on Jun 3, 06 at 11:10 AM
I'll be happy to send a copy of what was written, with all replies, if you email.

abram on Jun 3, 06 at 02:31 PM
Do you know why cruise critic pulled your thread?

It seems like it is possible that there might have been a misunderstanding about whether or not you were a Princess past passenger, and therefore entitled to the $50 credit from Princess, and that the agency tried to make you happy, when that credit was not available to you, by offering their own $37.50 credit. But it's also possible that I am the one not understanding.

Could you change the spot that says you know about the cancellation penalty, etc, initial that change, and then sign?

maryann on Jun 3, 06 at 03:00 PM
Cruisecritic pulled Steve's and all threads that mention a Travel Agency by name whether it is a good or bad review.

They have it completely clear on their website.

Wednesday on Jun 4, 06 at 07:37 AM
Steve, sorry you are having a bad time. Tell Princess you do not want to work with the agency and want to turn the booking over to them directly. Per customer's wishes, they switch travel agencies all the time as far as ownership of their booking, as long as ecruisestore.com agrees to let the booking go and respect your wishes. It's worth a try. Keep caling them, speak to a Supervisor etc til they call Princess and let go of ownership.

Steve007NY on Jun 4, 06 at 08:39 AM
actually, I've gone up THREE supervisory levels at Princess. This guy is SO angry and vindictive I don't think there's a chance he'll release the reservation.... I already have another agent happy to pick it up. Please DO understand that, at this point, I'm so totally revolted by his behavior that I've even told Princess I'd be happy to rebook at a substantially higher cost to me, rather than have this guy have the booking. It is NOT about the money, but rather, misrepresentation and threats to me.

Abram- I'm intending to change and initial...just hoping that in the end I don't end up disappointing my mom (taking her on something out of her native brooklyn is what this is REALLY all about). Just hoping he doesn't find some way to sabotage the booking at the last minute, since apparently he's done so before. I paste in below a response from the CC board before they removed it:

"TorontoTL
Cool Cruiser
I have also had a really really bad experience dealing the the same agency. I paid them in full quite early on for my cruise so I could have a specific cabin. They missed final payment with Princess and thus my cabin was lost. They rebooked me in a lower category cabin without my knowledge. I eventually noticedt that this had occured when I checked my cruise personalizer. After much arguing they changed me to a guarantee at the original category, but not in my aft balcony cabin. To make matters worse, they charged my credit card again. I noticed that they were charging me at a lower cost because I guess the price had come down. Again it took me much work to deal with them as they never returned calls and many many emails. They finally agreed to credit my card the new lower cost, despite the fact that they are thus pocketing the difference and making that extra money. I think in fact it was their plan from the beginning to miss final payment to allow them to keep my original payment and then pay the new lower charge without passing the savings on to me.

Interesting that you are dealing with the same agent, Richard Tanner because he was the original agent and suddenly when all these problems started he dissappeared and someone by the name of Richard Turner was the new agent.

I would never ever deal with that company again. I believe they are truly dishonest.
__________________
Benny"

Next step....better business bureau

spur on Jun 4, 06 at 09:18 AM
"I paid them in full quite early on for my cruise so I could have a specific cabin".
I wonder how early? It is usually 60 to 75 days before sail. No legit travel agency requires a full payment too early, deposit is enough to hold the cabin. That should have raised a red flag right there for Benny. It seems to me that some people are being careless without doing a bit of research and now paying for the lesson. BBB should have been your first step, not next.

abram on Jun 4, 06 at 12:18 PM
We recently paid in full for a cruise about six months in advance because Visa was having a special that gave you another 5% off the price of the cruise.

jacketwatch on Jun 4, 06 at 06:52 PM
Is there a governing board you can go to? That is when we once had a problem w/ a realtor I found out about a governing board I could protest to and one mention of that led to a quick resolution. Then I once had an encounter with a jeweler who proved himself to be, well a con man and I found out about the JVC or Jewelers Vigilance Committee who investigated and gave him a reprimand. I do agree about the BBB and how about the states atty. as well? Good luck.

Suerich68 on Jun 5, 06 at 10:13 AM
Steve,
Are you arguing over a $13 credit? Or am I missing a point here?

Steve007NY on Jun 5, 06 at 02:01 PM
yes, your missing something. For ME, has nothing to do with the money. I feel that an unethical agent charged my entire cruise, THEN changed the criteria we had agreed to, and now refuses to allow me to cancel or transfer the booking to someone else. I've already told Princess I would be happy to pay more for the same cabin/ same sailing, but hate to feel like someone who played 'bait and switch' was making commission off of the act.

Suerich68 on Jun 5, 06 at 02:28 PM
When are you going on this cruise?

Steve, I think that whether you like what this agent did or not, you can't take the commission away from him at this point. He did, after all, make your booking. Why would some other agent deserve a commission for what this agent booked, whether or not you liked his method of operation?

Did you want the cruiseline to refund the amount of his commission to you?

Steve007NY on Jun 5, 06 at 03:00 PM
WHAT did he do? I posted on cruisecompete.com, took the second from the lowest bidder, sent credit info and voila. NEVER talked about the ship, the line... except I DIDN'T get what we contracted. (His personally threatening me by phone doesn't help). Commission? FOR WHAT?

Suerich68 on Jun 5, 06 at 03:48 PM
Travel agents work on commission.

My agent "offered" to make airline reservations for me a couple of years ago, and tacked on a $50 p.p. fee. (Airlines no longer pay commission to t/a's.) What did he do? I could have made the very same phone call.

HE MADE MY RESERVATION. That's what he gets paid to do.

spur on Jun 5, 06 at 03:48 PM
Sorry but the story does not look credible. If I was to make a verdict, I'd sure wanted to hear the other side. What kind of agent would threaten to destroy his client's business and why? Unheard of. And an agent cannot refuse to cancel. How much it will cost to cancel is a different question.

jacketwatch on Jun 5, 06 at 03:49 PM
Is the amt. in question $13.00?

Suerich68 on Jun 5, 06 at 05:30 PM
OP seems to have dropped out, but said earlier that it's not the $13, it's the ethics of the agent.

I'm outta here to, this is too weird for color TV!

Ziana on Jun 5, 06 at 05:30 PM
I think we have a dead-horse beating issue here. At which point one will tell his agent that he has a business?
Only if agent was too friendly and talked away while booking one's cruise etc...I am friendly with my TA but I do not remember disclosing any of my unnessesary personal information to her.
As far as most of people here concerned - it is done deal, TA booked your cruise, got paid his comission - next time do your homework more carefully. Enjoy your cruise and make sure while on the ship you read all the lables and instructions. Better safe...

jacketwatch on Jun 5, 06 at 08:34 PM
Sue: Me too. $13.00 and you are looking for a lawyer's advice. Incredible.

Steve007NY on Jun 6, 06 at 07:07 AM
First...the outcome. Owner of Cruisecompete.com called and we spoke at length. He verified that this is not the first, or the second... complain he's gotten about Mr. Tanner. WHAT a contrast, his straightforward business style after Tanner's sleaze. Agreed my documentation was sufficient to dispute the now posted Diners charge... so outcome (except knowing Tanner continues to defraud others) is OK.

Sue- "OP seems to have dropped out"? This was your assessment because 2 1/2 hours passed between my last posting and yours? Sorry, some of us actually have work to do besides postings. If your agent made a reservation at a much higher fare than you'd been told, would you still so cheerfully pay the commission.

Ziana- He had NO IDEA what my business was....we talked for all of 5 min total. The point was he said "if you post concerns about ME on bulletin boards, I'll ruin your business". I THOROUGHLY agree...I'll do my homework better in the future...To that extent, mia culpa.

Jacket- THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY... it's about an agent agreeing to ONE contract and charging something different. I consider it fraud...and thankfully have the resources to follow up...NOT for $13, for what my partner calls "consumer Ramboism"

Ziana on Jun 6, 06 at 07:55 AM
Oh, cut the crap!!!

Steve007NY on Jun 6, 06 at 08:39 AM
Ziana-

Are you consistently a rude, self-righteous and offensive person, or is there something specific about me or this issue that's lead you to such a response?

jacketwatch on Jun 6, 06 at 10:00 AM
I'm back. . Steve if that is all you lost consider yourself lucky to have learned a lesson at a VERY inexpensive cost. You've posted this guys name. Now IMHO its time to move on. BTW this agent would have enraged me too. I think he is too dumb or pennt-ante to have realized he could have tried to do much more damage. Thats why you are lucky. You have gotten your licks back in and you will encounter more like him in your life. Now enjoy the cruise. JM2C. Larry