Fodor's Travel Talk Forums - BIG DIFFERENCE IN CRUISE PRICES?

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Hey - whoever you are, you only need to post your reply in one place. We heard you on my post.

It is interesting to read the opinions of those who have no real knowledge but want others to think they do. It would not be professional to disclose my name or affliliations so it will be left to you to decide how valuable the information is. I assure you, it is accurate. Regarding "blocking" of cabins...a cruise line will make specific sailings available for "groups" for several reasons. 1) the sailing is in the future and they are willing to let a certain percentage of the cabins be blocked, similar to buying on a speculative basis...the "bird in the hand" thing. Sometimes the fare is significantly lower than the line plans to release it to the public; sometimes only slightly lower however, they offer incentives to the agent/company blocking the space. The incentive might be extra commission to the agent/company or a "shipboard credit".These methods do not reflect the same on the cruise line's bottom line and gives the seller something to attract potential clients with.The greatest reductions are on the less desirable dates and/or cabins. 2) The sailing is "soft" i.e. it is not selling as the line hoped it would and they need to do something to sell the cabins. Cabins on a cruise ship are perishable items, once the ship sails, they're gone. You will not find an 'in demand' ship/itinerary suddenly made available with fare reductions. It is the classic "whatever the market will bear" situation. When space is blocked there are specific time frames laid out for deposits, etc. or the agent/co blocking the space risks loosing it. As the deadlines get closer, if the agent/co are not selling the sailing as they hoped they might offer further reductions...give back some of the commission to the client. They won't earn as much as they might have but it is better than nothing-back to the "bird in the hand". Regarding large differences in what one agency charges over another...first and foremost are the "overrides" and "preferred" relationship status an agency/company has with a vendor. In general, fares and commissions are equal at the beginning, let's use 10% as an example. As an agent/co increases the amount of their total sales with the vendor, the percentage earned increases. Eventually this number may go to 15% or 16%. Let's say a cruise line is offering a cabin to an agent/co at $1,000 excluding port charges and taxes (these are non-commissionable costs). The agency/agent that does not do a lot of business with the line may get 11% commission, $110.00. An agent/co that does a large volume may be receiving 16%,$160.00. To close the sale, the second agent can reduce the amount of the per passenger fare by $50 (the cruise line just withholds that much of their commission) so can now offer the exact same cabin on the exact same ship, etc, etc, for $950 and still earn the same as the first agent. If the first agent tries to match it, their earings drop to $60.00. Of that $60.00, often as much as 50% will be retained by the agency the agent is working with. Out of the remaining $30 the agent must pay state and federal taxes and all other withholdings if they are outside or independent contractors. Also factor in the cost of postage, paper, computers, "bon voyage" gifts and so on and you will begin to understand how much an agent makes on a booking. Obviously, those agents with preferred relationships who get the overides have the most room to discount. I will go on if anyone is interested...

Please go on - its refreshing to get some truth on this subject. Let us know if the majority of cruises are booked by traditional agencies (no web presence) or the .coms in various sizes and shapes.

Very few agencies are without any web presence. It is almost as necessary as a telephone. Not all agencies receive the majority of their clients from their web site, however. Just a few years ago a web site was generally only something a 'true' internet company had. By that I mean, typically large companies that targeted those travelers looking for the 'deal'. These passengers wanted someone to book their itinerary, not give advice or suggestions. Consequently, any employees did not have to be experienced, educated consultants...just 'order takers',at minimum or slightly above, wages. Some were commission only so the sales pressure was stronger. Mass market cruises such as Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Princess were the primary commodity. You didn't then, and generally don't now, see the luxury or other 'niche' type cruises available for self-booking on the internet.'Packaged' vacations attractive to mass market audiences were also available; budget and moderate priced vacations to Mexico, Hawaii, the Caribbean and so on. Moving a few years forward... acknowledging that travelers enjoyed researching itineraries, etc on the internet, traditional agents and agencies began having a web presence. Those travelers seeking high end or exotic travel still sought the services of a trained consultant but the traveler wanting to pay $199 for a 3 day Carnival cruise to Baja just booked it themselves.For many agencies these types of clients, along with the corporate 'air ticket' only traveler, represented their bread and butter. They almost had to join the cyber world to survive. The most obvious difference was that a traveler couldn't just 'book it' themselves. An agency might have attractive 'group' fares on a particular sailing, so featured it on their web site. Now, however, the interested traveler had to ask for a quote...the agent would respond to them via phone or email, a real live person, generally with experience and knowledge behind them. All of a sudden the traveler could speak to someone about the preferred location of a stateroom, the demographics of a specific ship's average passengers, the CDC sanitation ratings and so on.The majority of the time,resulting in a better 'fit' for the traveler.Certainly, there are exceptions, but generally it still works that way today. Most people would not believe many of the stories told. The client that booked their own air, for the wrong day, not being familiar with the time changes; the client who booked a hotel 'with a great rate on the internet' only to find they were not in the city they wanted but on an island of the same name. This is especially true when the cost of the cruise or vacation is the primary, sometimes only, deciding factor. As to which books more cruises,.com or consultants, the answer is probably .com. By that I don't mean agencies that have a web presence, but the huge corporate sites. I believe they book more not because their fares are better, but because there is a public perception that their fares are better. It also takes more effort to find an agent.Back to the preferred status issue, an agency/agent may very well have the same or better fare available.

Read the last few posts. They exlpain alot.

Very interesting thread. To tell you the truth no one knows who books the most cruises. The cruise lines say the travel agents do. But what describes a travel agent in this electronic age? Real (so called) travel agents that work out of a store front or work out of their homes are giving the all-important service. As mentioned above, how many people book their own air and have no idea when they will get to the ship and also when the ship clears immigration going home. How may book with an unknown and find the price goes up at the last minute and one must pay the extra or one has no vacation. Real travel agents make no money on $399 cruises and sell them as favors to their clients. Who wants to be competitive? And how much could be saved by spending hours surfing the net? Me, I could care less who sells the most cruises and I am sure others in the industry feel the same. The service oriented clients are the best clients. Paul

I couldn't agree with you more. Generally, the client that is seeking a high level of service, from the agent as well as the vacation,is considering more interesting itineraries. These travelers want a European river cruise during the Christmas holidays, to jet ski around Bora Bora, to visit the Hagia Sofia in Istanbul, visit the walled cities of Dinan and St. Malo, the beaches of Normandy or Spain's Santiago de Compostelo. It is personally satisfying to work with clients on itineraries like these. On another post I was reading the questions and answers regarding an "inside stateroom" guarantee vs. paying for an assignment. Apparantly none of them has ever been seasick from the increased movement felt at the front of the ship or on an upper deck. The concept of being ill in addition to living in a 10x13 cubicle for 7 nights, with no natural light occupied by 3 people,beds for 3, one bathroom,a closet and the empty lugguage really is not appealing.I think it would be reasonable to suspect these are the same travelers that spent an excessive amount of time trying to find a web site or agent that would be able to give them that $399 cruise for $379. These passengers really are the type of passengers that an interent booking site is best for. If an agent assists them, he/she might-might-make make $40-$50. By the time they pay their taxes, mail the clients the documents, pay the phone bill (these passengers typically require a lot of 'hand holding' and phone calls), an agent may not even break even. It isn't worth the time for many agents. A question to people who do shop long and hard to save $10-20 on a weeks vacation...where do you think the money comes from? I assure you it isn't from the cruisie line or other vendor. They do not negotiate fares on a 'per case' basis. Occasionally, an owner agent will share the amount they took off the fare. Most of the time, it is the individual agent that absorbs the cost. Think about it for a moment. How many times and for how long did you speak to the agent? How long did you spend looking for something 'better'? Assuming the agent did take off $20 from the $50 she was going to earn (before taxes and expenses), you have probably taken at least an hour of their time, and will no doubt take more. You are satisfied that you received a 'good' deal and will expect great service from the agent. The agent on the other hand will have earned virtually nothing. How long could any of you maintain your current lifestyle if you received the payment that agent did? Is it any wonder agents are starting to charge fees for their service. To those who complain that phone calls are not returned, etc., it is usually because agents that work in the above described environment must work very hard to book as much travel as possible. They cannot afford the luxury of spending a few relaxing moments talking with their clients. If you are calling your agent to tell them you have found someone who will take another $7.50 off the fare, you can imagine how anxious the agent is to take yet more time away from potential clients to work with you. Those passengers really do everyone a favor by just using the internet. If they don't care where the cabin is (they aren't going to be in it), what the quality of the food is (it doesn't matter, as long as there is a lot of it), or how clean and well kept the ship is, they don't need the services of a consultant. Leave the professionals alone to assist people who do care what their vacation experience will be. Above all, if you do engage the services of a professional consultant-don't call them when you get home and complain about seasickness, cramped quarters, too much salt in the food and meat you couldn't cut. You are going to get what you pay for, and remember the agent probably didn't make anything!

Experienced - thanks for the great insight - I don't personally agree with everything you say, but I do respect your credentials and appreciate the time you've invested in your posts. One favor though - Paul has stated that his travel agency has no web presence and will never have web presence. Is this a wise business strategy for someone in the travel industry?

Carnival Cruises are 92% booked by travel agents, both online and offline. On my last cruise the people checking in ahead of me had only their drivers license for 'proof of citizenship'. Told the cruiseline that 'the website' didn't tell them that wasn't valid. Big big hassle for them and don't know what happened, but I never saw them again.

I know this - we have just received several faxes from Carnival and Norwegian (others will shortly follow) stating that if guests do not have proper documentation they will not be allowed to embark the ships and there will be no refund. Hopefully people who are booking online with no "people" contact will read all of their information when they get it and bring the appropriate documentation.

Just how dumb do you think people are? Do they really need a travel agent to tell them what documentation they need for a cruise. Maybe the agents should visit them a few days before the sailing and pack their clothes for them too. Maybe they could sew little labels on all their clothes so they wouldn't lose them. We aren't talking about brain surgery here - just a seven day cruise to the Caribbean. Good grief Charlie Brown!

Well, maybe there ARE a couple of cruisers that need help with their documentation.

Peter, I'm dismayed. You are not reading my posts carefully. You have picked apart all my posts going back two years or so (didn't I just see you driving past my house?). I wrote above why I do not wish to have a web presence. You're losin' it kid. Are there two of you? Paul

Peter, There are those that do not know what to bring with them for proof of citizenship. I had one in my office the other day that thought she could make a xerox copy of her birth certificate and take it. That doesn't cut the mustard. And, yes, we do get questions about what types of clothing to bring - especially from first time cruisers. These are not "stupid" questions. But, Peter, you present yourself as if "all" people know exactly what to do and they do not. They want and need a little guidance. That's not "stupid" or "dumb", it's not being new to cruising. Not only are you bashing agents you are bashing first time or even second time cruisers here. There are many stories about people showing up at the pier without proper documentation. I think in the past there may have been a little sliding (signing some paper to prove that you are who you say you are), but no more. There is too much risk. Yes, if a client reads all of the information in his/her cruise documents it's all there, but there are many who do not read it all - they just glance over it. We feel it is our job as travel agents to inform the clients of what they need to bring in order to embark the vessel. There are those who are seasoned, like Peter, but there are those who are very inexperienced travelers that do need a little hand-holding. What's wrong with that?

Paul - I know what you've said about web presence - I was asking "Experienced" what he/she thought about your strategy. He/she seems to be very knowledgeable about your trade and is undoubtedly a travel agent themself.

If an agent is well establised, with a solid client base and is continuing to receive referrals, then a web presence is not as necessary as it is to an agent seeking to expand their client base. A typical agent/agency must attract new clients to stay solvent. Many studies and surveys have been conducted regarding effective methods of marketing-direct mail, newspaper ads, "open houses", cruise nights, etc. Consistently, an information rich, easy to navigate web site is the most effective marketing tool.

"an information rich, easy to navigate web site is the most effective marketing tool" That's true, but how do you get consumers to go to your website? And how do you compete with the Orbitz and Travelocity's of this world. They have incredible resourses to fashion websites. How do you compete with the advertising of the mega sites?

You pay to have placement on search engines based upon your budget. Small agencies cannot compete with the advertising budgets of Orbitz, Travelocity, Expedia, but we have a web site that gets some nice exposure based on the amount we choose to spend per month on search engine placement. I think there are those people who do research on the web (they may or may not have a travel agency they have worked with in the past locally), they click through to a site that gives them the information that they need, and then they either submit a quote form or call an 800 # for further pricing. The web expands the reach of small "mom and pop" agencies who can still give personalized service. When a search engine gets hundreds of thousands of searches on keywords, you can target the ones that you specialize in and draw people to your site that way. It's effective and, oddly enough, people book. It's the strangest thing I've seen in my years in the business. That someone in a different state will choose to book something with us that they can get down the road at a local agency. Sometimes there's a price difference and sometimes there's not. A great deal of the time it's in how you present yourself to the client initially and the connection you first make. Anyway, that's how we do it.