WON A VACATION AT THE ATLANTIS

Jan 16th, 2003, 09:57 AM
  #21  
frank
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Many of us have probably done things we regret now- I can remember getting my photo taken with a chimp in the streets of a seaside resort. I am horrified to think how I contributed to that animal's misery of captivity, unsuitable conditions, teeth extracted, and probably drugged. At the time, all I thought of was having a laugh. Obviously Sarah, you are still at that stage. It would be two faced of me to decry you for this, but hopefully you will do some research, as those who have replied to you have done, and have a change of heart.

Vicki
Lucky you!! Perhaps, as you have the free holiday you could maybe pay to upgrade the room?
 
Jan 16th, 2003, 10:04 AM
  #22  
Carmine
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Waaah waaah waaah Sarah. Take your ball and go home. Don't let the door hit you in the big a$$!
 
Jan 16th, 2003, 10:43 AM
  #23  
Linda
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Looks like Vicki's question got pushed aside for the little spat about the dolphin swimming.

I have been to the Atlantis a few times and here's my opinion on the questions:
I would not book the meal plan because you will probably want to have a few meals off the resort property. However, there are some good restaurants at the Atlantis. I enjoyed the Chinese restaurant and the one on the lower level where the aquarium is (I can't remember the name just now). It was expensive, but worth it in my opinion. There are some nice restaurants in Nassau and on Paradise Island. Cost of drinks was comparable to other places I've been in the Caribbean; $6.50 for tropical-type drinks like daquiris, bahama mamas, etc. This was last spring, so maybe they've gone up a little.
As for excursions, depends on what you enjoy. If you like snorkeling, it's a great place for it. You can take a snorkel "tour" on a boat or you can even snorkel right there in the ocean at the Atlantis. Some people snorkel in the little man made lagoon, but we didn't see much in there. You can get a map of downtown Nassau and go on a walking tour. There are a couple old forts there and the Queen's Staircase. A pirates museum (although I've not been to it, so can't vouch for it). You'll never run out of things to do. Be sure to grab some brochures/booklets at the airport when you get in. They contain coupons and plenty of ideas on what to do. They also have jet ski rentals, parasailing, banana boat rides you can sign up and go right from the Atlantis beach. And don't forget to check out all the Atlantis pools. They are great. As for the dolphin swim, everyone I've met who went loved it (including me and my family). But I don't want to get that whole thing started again. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we should be mature enough to share our opinions without getting upset.
Have a wonderful time and congratulations on winning the trip.
 
Jan 16th, 2003, 01:11 PM
  #24  
VICKI
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply. We are reconsidering the meal plan and despite the various opinions, we plan on swimming with the dolphins. Does anyone know what the cost is?
We are leaving on January 27th and will be staying in the Royal Tower.
Thanks again for all the coments
Vicki
 
Jan 16th, 2003, 01:30 PM
  #25  
xxx
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The "rates" ie: cost, to swim with dolphins would vary but I'll try to give you an idea:

the cost of many dolphins lives in order to capture one dolphin for you to swim with

the starvation of many dolphins so they can be trained to swim with you

the anxiety cost to many dolphin pods still living in the wild who have had members taken away

the cost for mothers who have had their babies wrenched from them way before nature would have taken its course and they had moved on (many to return to the same pod with their babies)

the deprivation of the dolphins main sense: sound (maybe you could swim with them without your main sense (sight)

the cost to you (medically and emotionally) if one of the dolphins acts out, ie: aggression is common amongst dolphins, you're just not told about it

Just a few of the rates (costs) of dolphin swims. Perhaps you could instead go to Africa and run with the lions......I didn't think so, they aren't as "cute" are they?
 
Jan 16th, 2003, 03:00 PM
  #26  
ok
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
About $100 per person.
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 07:00 AM
  #27  
xxx
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
To the other xxx,

Since you are so against the dolphin program, just wondering how you feel about the "Touch the Tiger" in Aruba, the stingray sandbar in Grand Cayman, and any Zoo?
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 07:18 AM
  #28  
Victoria
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Just an FYI, there is a huge difference between most zoo's and the so-called dolphin encounter programs.
Most zoo animals are bred in captivity or a rescued animals that are unable to be returned to the wild.
The dolphin's in these "programs" are forcibly removed from the wild and generally live a very short time in captivity. (60-180 days)
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 07:23 AM
  #29  
xzy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Not to mention, animals in zoos aren't "forced" to perform at a trainers beck and call.
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 07:54 AM
  #30  
Nancy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
To me, the main differences between the two are:

most of the animals in the zoos are born in captivity and many are part of efforts to regenerate an endangered species. e.g, in 1965 there were 75,000 black rhinos worldwide - now there are fewer than 3,500 vs. dolphins are almost always captured from the wild and taken from their pods - which are comprised of extended family units. (Almost all are dry-transported hundreds or thousands of miles)

dolphin swim programs are 95% for-profit groups, whereas most zoos are .orgs (non-profits) or government programs.

the dolphins are forced to perform in order to eat, and the they lose their ability to hunt on their own. Most zoo animals are not forced to perform to eat (or forced to perform at all.)

zoos go to great lengths to feed the type of food the animal would normally get in the wild vs. dolphins are fed dead frozen fish which they would never eat in the wild.

zoos have staff that are licensed and medically trained vs. dolphin programs having largely unlicensed staff with little medical training

the music played at the dolphin programs is very loud and confuses the dolphins sonar vs. most animals in the zoo are not forced to listen to music or any other type of stimulus which keeps them awake or intereferes in their daily life.

many zoos are trying hard to make an atmosphere that closely replicates the animal's environment vs. the smal concrete enclosures the dolphins are confined to that do not allow for them to engage in normal swimming.

These are just a few differences. I'm sure others can come up with more...
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 08:06 AM
  #31  
x
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Oh, and the "Touch the Tiger" program in Aruba sounds like a really, really bad idea on many different levels.
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 08:30 AM
  #32  
Nancy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I'm with you x
There's a restaurant in Cozumel - La Mission - that last year decided having caged lions outside would be a great tourist attraction.
A girl from the midwest in the US stood beside the cage to have her picture taken.
The lion attacked her and nearly took off her arm. She was/is (?) a high school basketball player on the verge of a full scholarship and they hoped she would play again. (I know this sounds far-fetched, but someone provided a link and I saw the story for myself. I'll find it again if anyone's interested.)
Just goes to show you, having any kind of wild animal "on display" is a STOOOPID idea.
btw, tourists are injured each year at the SWTD programs when the dolphins get aggressive. It's usually the male tourists butted between the legs - no lie - as the male dolphins compete for the female human.
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 09:15 AM
  #33  
Karen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sounds like some of you saw the same tv program I saw. It was at least 3 years ago and I don't remember if it was 60 Minutes or 20/20. Anyhow, it was about the capture and transportation of the dolphins for a new SWTD in Mexico or South America. It talked about their being dry-transported, etc. But the program went on to say that this was an isolated incidence.

We passed the "Touch the Tiger" in Aruba, but we didn't participate. You paid your money, were brought into the display cage and petted the tiger while the picture was taken. The trainer held the tiger's chain/leash while the photographer snapped the picture. My first thought was "how neat", but it looked a bit too risky in my opinion.

The SWTD off Paradise Island has medical staff, feeds the dolphins real meals, not just what they "earn" for tricks, and they live much longer in a protected environment than in the wild. Please let me know where you got your information that they live 60-90 days in captivity.

 
Jan 17th, 2003, 09:31 AM
  #34  
xzy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Karen: What they eat and how long they actually live in captivity is irrelevant. It's cruel, plain and simple.
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 09:38 AM
  #35  
Nancy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Karen. I posted the websites above with the links for the information - educate yourself...
http://dolphinproject.org/subdetail.cfm?menu_id=537&submenu_id=313

From the above link -

According to some of those who are opposed to keeping dolphins captive, the average lifespan of captive bottlenose dolphins is only 5.3 years, compared to an average lifespan of more than 40 years in the wild. But how does one come up with these figures and are they reliable?

In order to calculate the average lifespan of captive dolphins one would have to know the exact number of dolphins that have been brought into captivity, their exact age at capture, and the exact time of their death. It is simply not possible to gather this information, as it is not made available to us by the dolphin captivity industry.

We believe it is a mistake to publicize mortality statistics as if they were based on indisputable facts, because they are not.

What’s more, putting so much emphasis on captive dolphins’ average life span compared with that of dolphins in nature reduces this issue to being a question of how long a captive dolphin can be kept alive. It’s nothing short of saying that if the dolphin captivity industry were able to keep their dolphins alive for a certain amount of time, then there wouldn’t be a problem with capturing and confining these animals. But an animal’s life span cannot be used as a measurement for the animal's well being. The same is true with humans. One can well imagine a prisoner living to be a hundred years old. Is this evidence that the prisoner is happy? Of course not.

 
Jan 17th, 2003, 09:49 AM
  #36  
Karen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Nancy, I will check out the websites you listed, but I'll bet just from reading the information you provided they have statistics etc they don't back up.

As for the captivity issue, cats and dogs were wild once but were domesticated purely for human enjoyment as pets and companions. Some even do tricks for treats/morsels of food. Is this wrong, too?
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 10:29 AM
  #37  
Mary
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Nancy,
I don’t know about you but I’m tired of this conversation. I suppose I have to concede the point that there will always be people who see animals as expendable, who believe that it’s ethical to use them for entertainment purposes and then discard them when things don’t work out the way we like.
These people are no different from the persons arrested recently near my home for “training” Pit Bull terriers to fight. These dogs were horribly abused and maltreated, starved and tortured for the amusement of those who enjoy watching dogs fight.
Nancy, there are those who will never understand because they have a vested interest in not understanding. It would mean they have to change the way they live their lives and that’s just too much to ask.
Mary
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 10:36 AM
  #38  
Jeff
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I love you people....reading these responses has been akind to coming up slowly on a bad car accident.

I'm sorry Vicki, hopefully your questions regarding the exact conditions and age of captured dolphins has now been fully addressed. Jeesh!

Anyway, for those of you who actually stuck to the topic in question, thank you for your responses. I am traveling to Atlantis for the first time this March and was interested in some feedback. I can't wait to meet these dolphins, they're going to flip (maybe literally?) when they find out how popular they've become!
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 10:41 AM
  #39  
xzy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Karen: Does that mean you can "back up" your statements? It's a two-way street, honey.
 
Jan 17th, 2003, 10:51 AM
  #40  
Karen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
This dolphin encounter question has really touched a nerve on some of us. Yes, I can back mine up with information I've picked up at several dolphin encounter places, which is probably worth about the same as what's printed on some of the websites in Nancy's message.

We may as well agree that we will disagree about this. While some of you seem intelligent and offer credible points, others are just looking for a fight, zyz (honey).

Thanks for the great entertainment!


 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy -

FODOR'S VIDEO

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:28 PM.