just

I see where the post that said The TRUTH about Jamaica has been removed; I read with interest all the avid pros and cons that are posted about Jamaica. The people who are pro about Jamaica had a good time while they were there and didn't mind being hassled by the over zealous locals and the obvious 3rd world plight that exists on the island. Thats fine, I've been to Jamaica, the island has natural beauty, it is a fine tropical island with great weather (for the most part) and tourism is the #1 industry. Now the facts: The majority of everyone who come here are CONFINED to their property and NEVER venture out of those confines; yes I realize they ride in a tour bus to places like Dunns river falls and the like, but for the most part tourists NEVER venture into ANY areas where there is not a LARGE crowd. The MAJORITY of people do not know that Jamaicas serious crime rates is one of the highest in the WORLD, (nearly 5 times that of the U.S. per capita) the vast majority of the people are poor, and the government has a serious problem. I for one do not prefer to spend my time and money on a island about the size of Rhode Island where SIX POLICEMEN have been KILLED in the last 4 weeks!!

anon

Just: Thanks for the info. but we've all heard this a hundred times over.

eee

Anon: Then you oviously waste too much time on this website.

Jeremy

"I for one do not prefer to spend my time and money on a island about the size of Rhode Island where SIX POLICEMEN have been KILLED in the last 4 weeks!! <BR>"<BR> one word.<BR><BR>Kingston.<BR><BR>you freaking idiot.<BR>No one card where u want to spend ur time.

jam-man

It is interesting that the "Truth" thread was deleted. I'd love to know why. There was none of the foul language that seems to stay on in other threads without being expunged. Why this one?<BR>Maybe the Editor from Fodors would be kind enought to share his reasoning on this.<BR>Personally, I like the give and take on the various issues. I don't like it when it devolves into name calling and obscenities, but the clash of opinions and views makes for some good reading occasionally.<BR>I just feel bad for the first timer who comes in, posts a request for opinions or experiences and ends up with a 50-reply string with people who seem to know each other lashing back and forth and the original request for information is left in the dust.<BR>But if giving up that hostility meant giving up this site and these threads, then I'll deal with the hostility. After all, it's easy to skip over the dreck and get on with the real meat of this site.<BR>"Just" makes valid points about the number of visitors who actually spend time out in the country, away from the controlled resort environment.<BR>We differ only on our conclusions drawn from those facts. And we do it without calling each other names.

??

Jam-man: You seem like a very astute and informed person, my questions are: 1)Are you from Jamaica? 2) Just what seems to be the problem with the police and government? 3)Is Kingston as bad as it sounds? Thank you, I respect your opinions.

xxxx

I for one am glad the editors pulled that string. They should pull this one as well. Who needs all the sniping? How can you call someone an idiot you've never met?

jam-man

??<BR><BR>No, I'm not a J, I just like the place. Worked there for a while in Kingston. Spent a lot of time in the city and some of the neighborhoods. There were places I was told not to go, and I didn't. Had many friends among co-workers there and got to know and understand them. <BR>The problem with the police is similar to the problems that happen sometimes in the US. Some bad cops make it bad for the good cops and for the people who have to deal with cops. Anywhere there's a police force, there's going to be graft and corruption. In a poor country like Jamaica, the lure to the "dark side" (to use a Star Wars allusion) can be much stronger than a poor person can resist. And drug money can buy a lot of cops. Some of the local parish police heads take the law into their own hands and deal a swift and brutal justice outside of the real law. All of which makes the populace distrust and dislike the police as a whole.<BR>But it isn't the police as a whole that deserves the blame. Just those few bad ones.<BR>But when conditions become intolerable -- or when a cop won't stay bought -- you end up with somebody getting killed. As 'Just' points out above, it's happened 6 times in the last 4 weeks.<BR>I like to read The Daily Gleaner, Jamaica's main daily paper, online. You can learn about all these issues there.<BR>AS for Kingston today, I personally have no interest or desire to go back. The troubles are worse there, just as the worst crime in Puerto Rico is in San Juan, and the worst/most crime in New York is in New York City. It's where most of the people are.<BR>The risk of trouble is higher there, and, since I don't need or want to go there, I won't.<BR>The next person may see nothing wrong with going to Kingston, will go, and will have a pleasant time. More power to them.<BR>

xyz

Well eee, if you posted a follow-up to anon's post, then you obviously waste too much time on this website. BTW, how would you know whether we're wasting our time or not, ya fruitcake.

jam-man

Here's a link to an intelligent analysis of the Jamaica Constabulary Force violence situation.<BR><BR>http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glean...cleisure3.html

Martin

Fact:<BR><BR>In 1999 the homicide rate in Washington D.C. was 67 per 100,000 of population.<BR>In Jamaica it was 43 per 100,000.<BR><BR>There IS crime in Jamaica but it is mostly confined to Kingston, is drug-related and is a 2+ hour journey away from the tourist areas.<BR><BR>Go to Jamaica and enjoy!

c3po

Homicide victims killed by a firearm <BR>per 100,000 population in 1997 <BR>South Africa 26.63 <BR>Brazil 25.78 <BR>Jamaica 18.23 <BR>U.S. 6.24 <BR><BR>From the Washington Post Foreign review, 1999:<BR><BR>"Overall, 505 people have been slain this year, most of them young, unemployed men who belong to heavily armed drug gangs that compete for turf in poor neighborhoods in and around Kingston. A total of 185 people were killed in May and June, most of them in the capital. <BR><BR>During one 17-day stretch running into July, 66 victims--including an elderly woman shot in the head by robbers and three young girls who were raped--were felled in bloodshed that sent dozens of panicked residents fleeing their inner-city homes. Some sought refuge inside police stations, where they set up makeshift camps".<BR>