Restrictions on US Military travel to Cuba?
Dec 24th, 2016, 05:51 AM
#1
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Restrictions on US Military travel to Cuba?
We are considering a trip to Cuba, by my fiance is currently serving in the Army Reserves. How do we find out if there are any additional restrictions on his travel to Cuba? I didn't see anything on a google search, I know that we have to fit into one of the 12 categories, but wasn't sure if there were any additional rules for active military.
Dec 24th, 2016, 08:43 AM
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This came up on Google:
" All DOD military and USCG personnel (active duty and reserve) traveling on LEAVE must obtain theater (and country, depending on where the traveler is going) clearance. "
http://www.southcom.mil/Pages/Theater-Clearances.aspx
" All DOD military and USCG personnel (active duty and reserve) traveling on LEAVE must obtain theater (and country, depending on where the traveler is going) clearance. "
http://www.southcom.mil/Pages/Theater-Clearances.aspx
Dec 24th, 2016, 05:29 PM
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Reserves don't get leave time unless they are on active orders, he isn't on active orders so he won't be on leave. (sorry, tried to edit my previous reply and didn't see how I could do that).
Dec 25th, 2016, 06:56 AM
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Well, the obvious thing would be to ask his commanding officer or someone in administration of his unit. If you have reservations about doing this, perhaps you should follow your instincts and think about why you hesitate and what your reasons for travel are.
These are the details of the people to people category (of the 12 official OFAC reasons for travel, one of which you must choose, and retain detailed proof of itinerary/activities for 5 years) which many leaving direct from the US use:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...5.1.59&idno=31
Can you meet those criteria? (In my experience, you'd have to be on the ground for enough time to make contacts needed to plan a trip that does.)
Currently, OFAC has not been checking, but this, and even the ability to travel to Cuba at all, could change rapidly after Jan 20. If so, no one yet knows what would happen to those with existing flight bookings, etc. While it seems unlikely that OFAC could get sufficient added funding to call any traveler in to show their proof, do you want to run the risk?
And on the flip side, what if something untoward were to happen with the Cuban authorities? As military personnel of any kind, would you both be comfortable with that risk? (Google the case of Alan Gross.) Just for a vacation?
And the other factor........despite what you may be reading, not much significant is likely to change all that fast in Cuba. No need to rush, before there is a McD's on every corner spoiling the "romantic" view of crumbling tropical Infrastructure and broken down cars.
And a final factor is that, outside $700/night Havana hotel rooms and some beach resorts full of Canadians on package tours, lodging is largely not very comfortable and the food is often pretty bad. Still sound like a great vacation?
These are the details of the people to people category (of the 12 official OFAC reasons for travel, one of which you must choose, and retain detailed proof of itinerary/activities for 5 years) which many leaving direct from the US use:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...5.1.59&idno=31
Can you meet those criteria? (In my experience, you'd have to be on the ground for enough time to make contacts needed to plan a trip that does.)
Currently, OFAC has not been checking, but this, and even the ability to travel to Cuba at all, could change rapidly after Jan 20. If so, no one yet knows what would happen to those with existing flight bookings, etc. While it seems unlikely that OFAC could get sufficient added funding to call any traveler in to show their proof, do you want to run the risk?
And on the flip side, what if something untoward were to happen with the Cuban authorities? As military personnel of any kind, would you both be comfortable with that risk? (Google the case of Alan Gross.) Just for a vacation?
And the other factor........despite what you may be reading, not much significant is likely to change all that fast in Cuba. No need to rush, before there is a McD's on every corner spoiling the "romantic" view of crumbling tropical Infrastructure and broken down cars.
And a final factor is that, outside $700/night Havana hotel rooms and some beach resorts full of Canadians on package tours, lodging is largely not very comfortable and the food is often pretty bad. Still sound like a great vacation?
Dec 25th, 2016, 08:29 AM
#6
To help tj:
what's drawing you to Cuba, vacation or an adventure? Have you traveled much? What are some of your favorite places? Have you been to other Caribbean Islands? I assume you're American?
Do you want a planned trip or independent?
This might help us help you more!
8-)
what's drawing you to Cuba, vacation or an adventure? Have you traveled much? What are some of your favorite places? Have you been to other Caribbean Islands? I assume you're American?
Do you want a planned trip or independent?
This might help us help you more!
8-)
Dec 25th, 2016, 03:02 PM
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Yes, the better part of valor to have your hijack of the thread removed, blamona. Guess there are some perks to being an "insider" with influence with the moderators. Very convenient tactic to make such provocative and baiting statements and then 'disappear' them before many posters can see your continuation of a discussion you yourself promised to turn around. Can you spell hypocrite?
The OP asked a specific technical question about current regulations for military personnel to travel to Cuba. You have not answered that question. Nor, in your pathetic try to invent a legitimate reason to post on this thread, have you given the OP a reason to consider another destination. Since you haven't been, of course you have no way to know if Cuba is unique or if any old location can take its place.
Good job! Hope many new posters are attracted by your embracing attitude.
The OP asked a specific technical question about current regulations for military personnel to travel to Cuba. You have not answered that question. Nor, in your pathetic try to invent a legitimate reason to post on this thread, have you given the OP a reason to consider another destination. Since you haven't been, of course you have no way to know if Cuba is unique or if any old location can take its place.
Good job! Hope many new posters are attracted by your embracing attitude.
Dec 25th, 2016, 05:44 PM
#8
Samba, I did not withdraw my comment nor the other one (assuming it was yours?)
I don't play that game. Wasn't me
On the post, I was pointing out basically that you attack others for posting as you did:
"As I have mentioned several times, I think people come to these forums to get the FIRST HAND experience of others who answer the posts. That is the value of these travel forums over other forms of information gathering. I do think people trust that "opinions" on these forums (and others) are based on first hand experiences, unless otherwise specifically stated."
And then you google yourself and post? Do you have actual military experience traveling to Cuba? Why is okay for you and not others?
Merely pointing it out
And I have no say in posts removed, wasn't me
I don't play that game. Wasn't me
On the post, I was pointing out basically that you attack others for posting as you did:
"As I have mentioned several times, I think people come to these forums to get the FIRST HAND experience of others who answer the posts. That is the value of these travel forums over other forms of information gathering. I do think people trust that "opinions" on these forums (and others) are based on first hand experiences, unless otherwise specifically stated."
And then you google yourself and post? Do you have actual military experience traveling to Cuba? Why is okay for you and not others?
Merely pointing it out
And I have no say in posts removed, wasn't me
Dec 25th, 2016, 06:51 PM
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You also said:" Let's turn this around, there's room for positive on both sides." and proceed to go on the attack once again. Clearly your word is as good as your friend SUZE's information.
And of course it is quite coy to state that you "have no say in posts removed", which you can request to happen by simply touching the triangle.
And one more time......
Yes, people come to this forum particularly to hear first hand experience, not third hand hearsay with no attribution. I have said multiple times that my objection to SUZE's posts is that they often are phrased to sound like first hand, until she is pushed to say otherwise. You even quote me as saying "unless otherwise specifically stated", which is exactly what I did. Merely pointing it out, since in your rush to attack, you apparently did not even read the quote you yourself posted.
I do actually have some knowledge of what is required for certain military personnel, including reserves, to travel to certain countries while deployed. However, that is not the OP's bf's case as it turns out, although the travel situation to Cuba, even by "regular" travelers from the US, is as yet far from clear, and may well become a moot point soon anyway.
So now that you've probably scared off yet another poster with your nattering, why don't you give her some wise advice about Aruba or the Caymans or wherever you were thinking of to "help us help" her more to not choose Cuba, but someplace your lack of experience there tells you is a replacement.
My advice for a place with a very similar Colonial architecture as found in Cuba, beaches as nice, similar countryside and small villages, and a lively music scene (but few 50s US cars--LOL---just lots of old VWs) is available on the OP's request, along with lots of FIRST HAND advice to maximize the experience.
And of course it is quite coy to state that you "have no say in posts removed", which you can request to happen by simply touching the triangle.
And one more time......
Yes, people come to this forum particularly to hear first hand experience, not third hand hearsay with no attribution. I have said multiple times that my objection to SUZE's posts is that they often are phrased to sound like first hand, until she is pushed to say otherwise. You even quote me as saying "unless otherwise specifically stated", which is exactly what I did. Merely pointing it out, since in your rush to attack, you apparently did not even read the quote you yourself posted.
I do actually have some knowledge of what is required for certain military personnel, including reserves, to travel to certain countries while deployed. However, that is not the OP's bf's case as it turns out, although the travel situation to Cuba, even by "regular" travelers from the US, is as yet far from clear, and may well become a moot point soon anyway.
So now that you've probably scared off yet another poster with your nattering, why don't you give her some wise advice about Aruba or the Caymans or wherever you were thinking of to "help us help" her more to not choose Cuba, but someplace your lack of experience there tells you is a replacement.
My advice for a place with a very similar Colonial architecture as found in Cuba, beaches as nice, similar countryside and small villages, and a lively music scene (but few 50s US cars--LOL---just lots of old VWs) is available on the OP's request, along with lots of FIRST HAND advice to maximize the experience.
Dec 25th, 2016, 08:07 PM
#10
Getting back to the OP's question.
If the traveler is NOT on active duty, AND fits into one of the permissible categories, then travel to Cuba should be allowed if within the published legal parameters. However, it would be VERY prudent to check with the JG office of the base to which the traveler is assigned, particularly if still participating in drills.
Caution. If the traveler has a security clearance, or any close relative or friend of the traveler has a security clearance, there is the potential that the clearance may be questioned. Same if the traveler intends to apply for one. This is not a given, but a potential that should be considered.
If the traveler is NOT on active duty, AND fits into one of the permissible categories, then travel to Cuba should be allowed if within the published legal parameters. However, it would be VERY prudent to check with the JG office of the base to which the traveler is assigned, particularly if still participating in drills.
Caution. If the traveler has a security clearance, or any close relative or friend of the traveler has a security clearance, there is the potential that the clearance may be questioned. Same if the traveler intends to apply for one. This is not a given, but a potential that should be considered.
Dec 26th, 2016, 06:15 AM
#11
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Well, didn't mean to start any drama, especially on Christmas!! To answer a few of the questions, yes we are American. We have both traveled extensively, I've been to around 30 countries and he's been to around 20. We have been to islands of Mexico, USVI, and Bahamas in that area of the world, plus many islands in the far east. We both love Thailand and Cambodia, and would never think of staying in a $700 a night hotel anywhere.We are quite comfortable with independent travel normally, but would consider an organized tour if it offered some flexibility and was a small group.
Dec 26th, 2016, 07:42 AM
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Don't worry; this is an ongoing (apparently by certain other posters' choice) issue with folks (IMO) posting authoritatively about places they have never been and resenting being called on it. More to do with the exclusiveness of insider culture for regular posts on this forum than with your particular question.
If you want to take up blamona's post, seemingly about alternative destinations to Cuba, have at it.
If you want some info on Cuba travel, I'm happy to help, but would suggest also posting where I've recommended below for a much wider variety of first hand experience in Cuba than found on this very limited forum.
If your bf runs into any problems with his military superiors over this destination, as mentioned above, I can recommend a very similar one with which the "politics" would not interfere.
Since these trips with a general license are so new (*March 2016), and many military folks seem to be of the "spend no money in a 'Communist' country" mindset (see various discussions to be found on other forums online), it might be difficult to find someone in a similar 'predicament' to consult.
The advantage of an organized tour is that they have had the time on the ground to connect with people and make plans for the "people to people" activities. They also charge a bundle for doing so for you. Lodging is probably the same type of casas particulares that you could book independently. (Look at CubaJunky for booking these with the owners an pay about 25CUC in cash on arrival; AirBnB charges extra for the same property, but allows payment up front by credit card.) By "$700/night hotel" in Havana is meant what might be a 3 star (or even 2*) most anywhere else, not a fancy boutique property.
If you are serious about sticking to the criteria for people to people, in the higher probability case you are questioned because of your "special" situation, you need to plan a "full time" itinerary of activities. Not all the activities that many travelers leaving from the US think might fall into that PtoP choice (walking around to see sights, talking to casa owners or others casually in restaurants, and many more) actually do.
***You would need to do an enormous amount more of research and planning.*** (The best informed people to ask are currently on Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree Cuba forum, with a few of the same also on TA.)
Also, you may need to adjust your expectations radically. As mentioned, lodging conditions (think cheap hostel level, much less comfortable IMO than a typical 500 peso posada in Mexico for example) are very basic, to the point of often being uncomfortable (generally clean, but bad mattresses, biting insects, no hot water, etc). Perhaps you are familiar with this type of situation from Thailand/Cambodia? (Note: The majority of guests in the casas seemed to be 20-ish German backpackers, to give an idea to whom this type of lodging appeals.)
Food can also be limited insofar as variety and quality.
The architecture is crumbling and ripe for photo ops, but it behooves you to be sensitive to the residents who live their lives right on the sidewalk in front of their doors. The cars, most of which are not in great shape and can be very uncomfortable (bad plastic re-upholstery, sprung seats, and smelly diesel engines) can become less interesting fast.
What balances all this discomfort are the Cuban people! That is THE reason to visit.
More questions? Please post.
If you want to take up blamona's post, seemingly about alternative destinations to Cuba, have at it.
If you want some info on Cuba travel, I'm happy to help, but would suggest also posting where I've recommended below for a much wider variety of first hand experience in Cuba than found on this very limited forum.
If your bf runs into any problems with his military superiors over this destination, as mentioned above, I can recommend a very similar one with which the "politics" would not interfere.
Since these trips with a general license are so new (*March 2016), and many military folks seem to be of the "spend no money in a 'Communist' country" mindset (see various discussions to be found on other forums online), it might be difficult to find someone in a similar 'predicament' to consult.
The advantage of an organized tour is that they have had the time on the ground to connect with people and make plans for the "people to people" activities. They also charge a bundle for doing so for you. Lodging is probably the same type of casas particulares that you could book independently. (Look at CubaJunky for booking these with the owners an pay about 25CUC in cash on arrival; AirBnB charges extra for the same property, but allows payment up front by credit card.) By "$700/night hotel" in Havana is meant what might be a 3 star (or even 2*) most anywhere else, not a fancy boutique property.
If you are serious about sticking to the criteria for people to people, in the higher probability case you are questioned because of your "special" situation, you need to plan a "full time" itinerary of activities. Not all the activities that many travelers leaving from the US think might fall into that PtoP choice (walking around to see sights, talking to casa owners or others casually in restaurants, and many more) actually do.
***You would need to do an enormous amount more of research and planning.*** (The best informed people to ask are currently on Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree Cuba forum, with a few of the same also on TA.)
Also, you may need to adjust your expectations radically. As mentioned, lodging conditions (think cheap hostel level, much less comfortable IMO than a typical 500 peso posada in Mexico for example) are very basic, to the point of often being uncomfortable (generally clean, but bad mattresses, biting insects, no hot water, etc). Perhaps you are familiar with this type of situation from Thailand/Cambodia? (Note: The majority of guests in the casas seemed to be 20-ish German backpackers, to give an idea to whom this type of lodging appeals.)
Food can also be limited insofar as variety and quality.
The architecture is crumbling and ripe for photo ops, but it behooves you to be sensitive to the residents who live their lives right on the sidewalk in front of their doors. The cars, most of which are not in great shape and can be very uncomfortable (bad plastic re-upholstery, sprung seats, and smelly diesel engines) can become less interesting fast.
What balances all this discomfort are the Cuban people! That is THE reason to visit.
More questions? Please post.
Dec 26th, 2016, 08:04 AM
#13
The OP had a very direct question about travel to Cuba for someone in some sort of reserve status that was not clearly explained. The very direct answer to the question is to discuss it with the base JG. Not superior officer, not commanding officer but the base's designated legal authority only. Then consider any other caveats regarding implications for security clearance.
Dec 26th, 2016, 09:48 AM
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@basingstoke2, when I asked him about the JG office he said you probably meant JAG. Not sure what other way to explain military reserves? There's a few hundred thousand members of our military reserves so I thought there may be someone who had already done that trip. He isn't assigned to a base, he reports to a drill center. I'm sure he could get in touch with a JAG, but he said they don't have anyone at his center.
Dec 26th, 2016, 10:38 AM
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Yes, reserves....where they spend one weekend a month and a certain number of weeks per year training, right? And are sometimes called to active duty, shipped out to Afghanistan or somewhere for a year or so. (hence the confusion about status in the original post with the words "active military" in it.)
There has got to be a chain of command for his unit. If he asks, his commander can make inquiries if he himself doesn't know.
JAG (Judge Advocate General) is the military legal arm, and therefore should know, or be able to find out, about the legalities of travel to Cuba for military personnel. (I suspect they would discourage it, if there is not indeed an outright prohibition, because of what could possibly happen there based on his military status.)
If I were in your position, OP, I would not book anything until he has a definitive answer, and realize that this very new (direct flights to Havana just started in November; flights to other cities starting in mid-September were almost empty-----What percentage of all travelers do you suppose have been active military, who also post on this particular forum?) way to travel to Cuba may well change or end after Jan. 20 anyway.
There has got to be a chain of command for his unit. If he asks, his commander can make inquiries if he himself doesn't know.
JAG (Judge Advocate General) is the military legal arm, and therefore should know, or be able to find out, about the legalities of travel to Cuba for military personnel. (I suspect they would discourage it, if there is not indeed an outright prohibition, because of what could possibly happen there based on his military status.)
If I were in your position, OP, I would not book anything until he has a definitive answer, and realize that this very new (direct flights to Havana just started in November; flights to other cities starting in mid-September were almost empty-----What percentage of all travelers do you suppose have been active military, who also post on this particular forum?) way to travel to Cuba may well change or end after Jan. 20 anyway.
Dec 26th, 2016, 12:10 PM
#17
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Not sure if this site would be useful to him:
https://www.fcg.pentagon.mil/
https://www.fcg.pentagon.mil/
Dec 26th, 2016, 08:00 PM
#18
To contact your JAG
Armed Forces Legal Assistance Directory: https://aflegalassistance.law.af.mil
Army: http://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil
Navy/Marine Corps: http://www.jag.navy.mil/legal_services.htm
Coast Guard: http://www.uscg.mil/legal/la/Legal_A...ind_Lawyer.asp
DoD Military Installation Directory
Armed Forces Legal Assistance Directory: https://aflegalassistance.law.af.mil
Army: http://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil
Navy/Marine Corps: http://www.jag.navy.mil/legal_services.htm
Coast Guard: http://www.uscg.mil/legal/la/Legal_A...ind_Lawyer.asp
DoD Military Installation Directory
Jan 14th, 2017, 04:58 AM
#19
basingstoke, it is me flpab, I told Dukey to shut up about Bernie and got booted off the lounge. I just wish I could tell him I told you so. I miss you! I wish I could share our space a adventures with you. We love it.
We have this issue come up all the time with space a flights. People think they can catch the flight to Cuba but you can't get off the base. I would be very careful of doing this after Jan 20th. Have him talk to his Jag or at least commanding officer at his reserve center.
We have this issue come up all the time with space a flights. People think they can catch the flight to Cuba but you can't get off the base. I would be very careful of doing this after Jan 20th. Have him talk to his Jag or at least commanding officer at his reserve center.
May 24th, 2017, 07:58 AM
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The reservist must have permission from USSOUTHCOM. They must provide their travel details to the SSO, get theater clearance approval through APACS system, complete required online training and get briefed before and after by CI. Go to the southcom.mil site for more details.
