Here ! Here ! Diana ! or is it Hear ! Hear ! ??? Well said , and each to their own I guess . Some people search those places out , some people do research just to avoid them ! By the way Diana , what do you know about Tobago ? Looks like a dream ! Faith

Hi faithie!

We went to Tobago a few years ago and have mixed reviews about it.

First the good:

The people!!! What a friendly place. We made some friends there who have been to our home twice (on the way to or from visiting relatives in the States), and everyone is so nice.

A HUGE party held every Sunday night at Buccoo called Sunday School. Good grief. This thing makes the jump-up at Gros Islet on St Lucia pale in comparison. Both live bands and recorded, and food stands as well. I'd find someone local to go with. This is fun but a little wild. (We got back to the room at 3 am and my husband was not happy with himself the next day.)

Some pretty neat places to eat both for local food and gormet. Lots of choices in all price ranges.

Interesting island tour and sights to see.

Very laid back and funky.

Cons:

Could not find a decent place to stay. We like low key luxury on a pretty beach with maybe a beach bar or two. We stayed at Grafton Beach and the place was a pit. Not clean, loud, obnoxious AI guests, not on beach (website made it look like it was), food mediocre - they have an AI option we did not take, thank goodness.

Beaches/water not as pretty as some islands.

Not much downtown to the downtown. (Scarborough.)

Really, the only thing that has kept us from going back is the lack of good places to stay, but the Hilton looks really nice, so we may try it.

I really liked the people and the vibe, and we're overdue to visit with our friends, so maybe 2005 will be the year. It's definitely worth a visit, but pick where you stay carefully.

Diana,

Could you explain that statement about St John? Did you mean it does not have "caribbean flair"? Just wondering because we like a more "rustic" type island,although we like nice accomodations. Plan on St John with day sails to BVI's next trip. Any comments?

Yes Diana, great response, as are all your comments on the Caribbean generally. I sort of hesitated to pose my question for fear of being flamed but I am glad I did. Thing is, to me, the Caribbean is the Caribbean and if you are coming here, to me you are seeking an authentic laid-back, Caribbean experience. We're generally not into the big malls, fast food (at least not in the islands where I live - BVI's), highways and byeways, crowded cities etc. On the other hand, what you will find is small and in some cases old but charming towns with lovely little shops here and there, fabulous local cuisine usually derived from fresh produce from the seas and the land, colourful, friendly, chatty, vibrant West Indian people speaking in all manner of lingo and accent, miles and miles of deserted beaches on just about any island and a way of life that is, in my opinion, second to none. Agreed, it is not for everyone as Diana and others have so correctly stated. But to me, it should be accepted for what it is. But trying to find that "American" but still Caribbean experience, that's for the birds man! Come, relax, let go of the inhibitions and enjoy the experience for what it is.

brendang, We went to the USVI's/BVI's in 2003 (for our second visit) for almost three weeks.

We started out on St John (had not been there before) because we had heard so many wonderful things about it and we were really excited.

It was a big disappointment for us for several reasons, but there were things about it we really liked too.

The major disappointment was the lack of locals working in all but the very least desirable/well-paying jobs (e.g. maids and grounds maintenance at resorts).

Almost every restaurant and shop we went into in town was staffed by surly, poorly-trained and rude American teenagers and early 20-somethings (of course some of them were very pleasant).

We were unable in a week's time to find a single venue of live island music, and the LOUD rock music coming from all of the bars the American "Trustafarians" frequent did not interest us.

We ended up spending almost all of our time in one of three local places for food and libations, and we were told that it is almost impossible for the locals to make a living there as the real estate prices have been driven up so high by Americans buying houses and the kids taking all the jobs. The locals are leaving in droves for other islands.

We couldn't wait to get to Tortola!

That having been said, it is a beautiful island with great beaches and a lot of good restaurants to chose from.

I would not go back unless it was to take a friend or relative who had never been to the Caribbean as a "starter island."

Thank you Enya! That means a lot coming from you. Your post made me miss the islands so! We are taking a cruise next week (my husband’s mother wanted to go on one – I’ve never been), so at least I will be in the region I love, but not for long enough.

I guess it is hard for me to understand too. There are a lot of destinations that really cater to Americans and try too hard sometimes to make the same experience you see in the glossy magazine ads with happy smiling locals doing the limbo and wearing shirts with ruffly sleeves. I was soooo embarrassed for the poor guys wearing the “parrot” costumes at Margaritaville in Negril when we ducked in to get out of the rain. I can imagine how degrading it must be to wear those in 100 degree heat and have people pulling and poking on you – but how else to make a living?

I was just talking to my husband last night about the sweet innocence of the children in the islands – no Gameboys or $100 Air Jordans anywhere to be found. The simple pleasures you have described in your post make our trips so much more fulfilling than just a good tan, some T shirts and a few souvenirs ever can.

A couple of my favorite experiences happened on your island of Tortola on our last visit. We were driving back to our condo (Lighthouse Villas), and I had read about the North Shore Shell Museum. We were there during off-season, and it was kind of late in the day, but we had not yet had lunch. We stopped by and had the most delicious lunch prepared just for us (we were the only patrons) and a personal tour of the place. What a character! :)

The next day, we had been out trampoosing and again were late having lunch. I had heard of Clem’s by the Sea, and so we stopped by there. Clem has a little store, and he was selling snacks to the school children and the workers coming by, but he stopped what he was doing to cook us a marvelous lunch and joined us for our meal and a drink. (We were the only ones there too.) That night, he and his son have a little steel drum band, and he invited us to come see them perform at Myatt’s. What a nice evening we all had!

I am happy to say that every time we re-visit an island, we see people we can call friends, and we all pick up where we left off and have a great time during our visit. Coincidentally, we even saw a friend we made in Nevis on St Thomas! (He had moved there to pursue his reggae career.)

Enya, you are so right, the Caribbean has much more to offer than sun and sand. I wish more people could see it through our eyes! My husband and I hope to buy property on Nevis or Carriacou in the next few years and build a small place. I would love to live in the region at least part of the year for the rest of my life!

You are blessed to live one of the last places on earth where most of the people understand what is important in life and do not take it for granted.

How about the keys in Florida...you dont get more American than that.

To Girlonthego: Now that you've defined the kind of place you'd like, I'd suggest going to Barbados. It has some of everything any island can offer except for gambling and a volcano. Lovely people, lush green tropical setting, clean air, pure water, wide range of hotels, beaches, water sports, sightseeing such as caves, tropical gardens, animal preserves, plantation houses, submarine ride. Outstanding restaurants, both in hotels and independent. All revolves around a British/Caribbean culture so you don't feel like you're just in tropical America. Barbados is a really special place with a strong economy, not dependent only on tourism, so a visitor experiences a sense of a place which is beyond just a resort on a beach, and safe to travel around. Generally avoid August-October (hurricane season). Otherwise weather is great all year-perpetual summer with water temps over 80 deg. even in winter. Lowest hotel rates are mid-April to mid-December, with a big jump in high season. Calmest water for swimming/snorkeling is on the calm!
west coast north of Bridgetown. IMO the best hotel on that stretch is Coral Reef Club. Family-owned for 50 years, low-rise and plantation cottage style hotel in tropical gardens and fine beach. See www.barbdos.org and
www.coralreefbarbados.com

Sorry, the Barbados reply should have been directed to "twins"

Diana you really are one of the seasoned Caribbean visitors and someone who would always be welcomed to our shores. The best of luck with finding property in Nevis or Carricou. As you would know, my own adopted homeland is home to several hundreds of "winter birds" who own homes/keep boats here and who live here six months out of the year. We have formed close friendships with quite a few such persons and always look forward to seeing and catching up with them when they arrive for their annual long stay visit. Those are really the visitors that are truly valued. Sounds like you have really gotten around Tortola and discovered some of the better little resturants around. The thing is, so many of the good places look like "holes in the wall" from the outside, but once you step in, meet the people and see what they have to offer, you end up being glad you did. I think for some people, really discovering the islands is taking them out of their "comfort zones", the unfamiliarity and perhaps "strangeness" of the experience. Alot of people are shocked that we have not one fast food outlet here in the BVI and wonder how we survive. Or even a shopping mall. Alot of cruise ship visitors when they land on Tortola, they immediately assume that the imposing building next to the cruise ship dock in the town is a shopping mall! Imagine their disappointment when they hear that it is our gov't admin complex. But we get by. One thing I wanted to mention was some people seem concerned about safe water, safe food and surroundings in the islands. Contrary to what some might think, we are not living in the dark ages here. Personally I have never had an issue with the water or the food in any of the islands I have visited and that is just about everywhere save for DR, Haiti, Guyana (which is south america really), Tobago where I have not yet been to. Good sense will dictate that one must be careful about buying food from stalls by the roadside although again, by and large you will find such food to be perfectly fine. Caribbean people pride themselves on cleanliness. Safe surroundings is an issue in some islands but again, common sense must prevail. This thing about travelling to an island only to staying walled up at the resort the whole time is to me ridiculous. Why bother? If you are going about minding your business, in all but the most remote circumstances, you would be perfectly safe.

Enya... How lucky you are to live in the BVI. Looks very beautiful. I'll probably get booed for this but have been watching Branson's show. Necker island was the stop last night.

Diana and Enya, You both seem to like the same types of islands that I do although I have only been to a few. STL, Grenadines for a day and Jamaica. I know that we like lush islands with things to do. Grenadines might be nice for another trip. What are your favorite islands and a short why if you have the time.

Also, Diana, I would be very interested to hear what you think of your first cruise. Of course, just being in the Caribbean is always good.

Thanks for the good discussion, on both sides, of this issue. By using the term "Americanized", to me that means modern accomodations, no concern about what you are eating or drinking, safe to walk the streets. Let's just say that we enjoy the amenities offered by daily American life and are not big into roughing it. That's not to say that we wouldn't like to find a hidden beach or explore some local culture. It's kind of like camping...I enjoy being outside and cooking over the fire, but when it comes time to sleep, I like a comfortable bed and a clean shower. We have only traveled to Aruba and the Atlantis Resort, so in comparison to most people posting messages we are inexperienced caribbean travelers and by nature maybe not as adventurous in a foreign environment as others may be.

I think Diana hits the nail squarely on the head when she says not everyone wants and "Americanized" vacation.

I just got back from a 16 day trip to Havana (my 7th trip) and the colonial city of Trinidad in Cuba. And what a refreshing change to not have McD's and Tacky Bells on every corner. Lots of local cafe's, espresso bars, and a unique blend of African, Spanish and Cuban rhythms.

There are still many Americans who I met in Cuba, most having arrived through a third country. They have also found the great friendship and openess of the Cuban people, and the saftety of strolling around Havana, even after dark.

I do drink bottled water whenever I travel but it is readily available and I've never had a case of tourista while in Cuba.

Steve

Yes Diana, have fun on your upcoming cruise. One note of caution though, be careful with the food. A friend of my parents did a cruise over the New Years Eve holiday leaving out of San Juan and going down island and she returned very sick from apparent food poisoning. Still wretching as we speak. Not sure which cruise line this was but I can find out if you wish. Was probably just an isolated incident but still, it helps to be aware.
Brenang, I agree that it is great to be living in these islands. Can't complain. In terms of a favourite island(s), I would probably count St Lucia in there (natural beauty, the jazz festival, the people), Dominica because my father's family hails from there and the culture, island and its people are just beautiful. I also like St Kitts - some of the friendliest people hail from St Kitts and I love exploring the old plantations and the quaint countryside. Jamaica is definetly on my list of favs for its fantastic local food (so glad I don't live there or I'd be 300 pounds), the culture, the people are amazing regardless of their status. I have alot of wonderful Jamaican friends. I always have a whale of a time when i visit Jamaica. The truth is, all of the islands have their charm, something about them that is special and that pulls. But those mentioned are my favourites that I return to time and time again.
And finally to Twins and the concern for modern "Americanised" accomodation, again, the Caribbean is not in the dark ages. In each and every island you will find decent modern accomodation with all of your creature comfort conveniences that you are used to in the US. Granted, alot of the accomodations may not be housed in tall, swanky skyscrapers that you may be accustomed to. But have no fear. You will find in islands like Barbados the usual 3/4 star chain hotels - Marriott, Holiday Inn, Hilton (coming soon in the case of Barbados) etc. Then you have the luxury high end 5 star Cap Jalucas, Sandy Lanes, Peter Islands of the Caribbean. But mainly what you will are alot of small or medium sized properties, not of the chain variety but more family owned "boutique" type of property with all the modern conveniences that are quite a delight and holding their own with the best of the chain hotels. I tend to prefer those smaller, properties myself when I travel in the islands and in my experience, I have found that these properties, the standard of the rooms, the amenities offered etc tend to be head and shoulder above what is offered by the large chain resorts. In St Kitts, I like Ottleys Plantation Hotel, in St Lucia I love Bay Gardens Hotel (even though it is not on a beach but is within walking distance of one), in Grenada, I like True Blue Hotel, In Barbados, there are several small properties on the west coast that I have tried and enjoyed, in Dominica, it doesn't come much better than Exotica Cottages tucked into the lush foresty area of Giraudel, highly recommended if you want to be one with nature but still enjoy your "modern conveniences"...just let me know if you need recommendations a particular island you may have in mind.

This has just been a super thread, and valuable reading for anyone who may not be sure where they want to go and what they want to experience in the Caribbean.

Steve, I am envious. Your trip to Cuba sounds fascinating. We were hoping that it would open up there more to we Americans, but I guess we will have to wait a little longer - ridiculous huh? :)

rbzombie, the Keys are getting more Americanized all the time sad to say. We just got back from Key West a couple of weeks ago, and it is all T shirt shops and tacky bars. The rents are so high now, most of the neat little shops are gone. Our favorite dive bar RumRunners - which was there for 20+ years and had live reggae - is now some dreadful place called Bear Bottoms. Yuck.

xkenx, we are stopping in Barbados later this month for only one day and I have a few things planned. Let me know what you think. Starting out at Harrison's Caves and going then to either the Rum distillery or the brewery for a tour. A taxi to the Crane for lunch, and then beach party in the afternoon at the Boathouse.

Enya, thank you for your kind words. We too have found the best food and nicest people in some of the most unlikely-looking places.

I actively select islands that do not have ANY fast food joints. Why do I want to travel 1,000 miles to eat pizza or hot dogs when I can have ceviche or ackee? I've never been sick from water anywhere I've been, and I don't limit myself to bottled drinks. Wave to Clem the next time you're in Carrot Bay! :)

brendandg, My favorite three are Nevis for the gorgeous scenery and wonderful people, Grenada for the same reason, and a tie for third between St Lucia and Isla Mujeres in Mexico. St Lucia for the amazing scenery and "irieness factor" and Isla Mujeres for the most stunning beach I've ever seen lined with great bars and restaurants.

Honorable mention goes to Tortola, Jamaica and Provo.

The cruise thing will be interesting. I chose the line for its food quality and lack of children, and we're going to two islands we haven't visited, Barbados and Dominican Republic, so it will be fun too I'm sure.

Happy travels to you all!

Girlonthego: Please know that I'm not trying to be mean to you but you have got to realize that your following statement is truly insulting. "Personally when I say I like americanized it is not the Mc Donalds that I am looking for. It is a feeling of safety and friendliness while on vacation.".
That statement implies that only America offers safety and friendliness. I know plenty of places in the U.S. that are poor and dangerous to walk around at night, let alone during the day.
There are plenty of countries around the world that have less crime than the good ol' U.S. of A. And where people are A LOT friendlier.
Rethink your definition of Americanized because yours is certainly incorrect or simply pick up any English dictionary.
Ok, so maybe that last statement was a bit mean but I'm really tired of people who think America is better than everything else. It is a great country, yes. But it is not better than EVERYTHING else. This is exactly why so many people around the world have such poor opinions of us.
Twins: you'll feel comfortable in Aruba.

I'm also glad to see that this thread has remained open to the various views of travelers.
I think "Americanized" is such a broad term, because it means many different things to different people. I usually just list what I'm looking for in a vacation and avoid using the term. Looking for American restaurant chains is not what I think most people mean.
For me, when I say "safe," I don't mean in relation to the United States.
Those of us who live here are well aware of the crime that exists. What I mean is I want to vacation somewhere where I can walk the streets at night and drive around freely alone without much worry. Clean is important because I've "been there, done that" with the unsafe drinking water and food poisoning on more than one occasion. I also think that if you have children, it influences a lot of your choices. I hate to say age is a factor, but to some extent it is for us. My husband and I were more adventurous 30 years ago and tried lots of things in the Caribbean and Mexico. We still love to try new places, but now prefer diving and snorkeling instead of the party scene. We've always eaten at local restaurants and experienced the local cultures, regardless of where we were.
So, please don't assume that because someone is looking for a safe environment that the person is not a seasoned traveler, adventurous, or uninterested in local culture.
I am grateful for the bond that all Fodorites have-the love of travel. Happy travels to all in the new year!

Diana and other help welcome

You said you mostly ate at one place (in STJ) for the best Caribbean feel. I have heard of Uncle Joes BBQ and another place next to Low Key Watersports. Also, any recommendations for the best Jerk Chicken? Hubby goes crazy for that stuff.

Hi Diana , Putting aside the accomodation issue , how did you find the island compared in beauty to Tortola ? Although I do love a pretty beach , I also love a lush , hilly , backdrop ( beauty beyond the beach ) . Tobago appears more lush and green from photos , and its beaches look fairly comparable to Tortolas as well . I find it interesting because it has links to South America with its vegetation and wildlife , and I suppose I have to admit I like to go to places off the beaten track a bit . Would love your comments , or anyones ! Cheers , Faith

Diana, re your one day on Barbados. From Harrison's Cave, Flower Forest is practically "around the corner." It is a breathtakingly beautiful tropical forest/gardens. It is said that one visitor wrote in the register, "If I owned Paradise and Flower Forest, I'd rent out Paradise and live in Flower Forest." You may not have time for The Crane; it is very remote and on a fairly rough beach. Perhaps a better lunch stop would be at the Coral Reef Club resort hotel, where their restaurant is beachside, and you could do wade-in snorkeling from the beach. If you are at all interested in life in the sugar plantation days, Francia Plantation is a great example--there are tours and it is fully furnished. All these places are not too far for driving on a day trip. See www.barbados.org