lvk

Hi again,

I want to thank all those who answered my previous thread about a Great Lakes Itinerary. My trip parameters have now changed, so I'm starting this new thread. (I still want to get to "cottage country" one summer though! )

Our trip will now be in early October. My Mother-in-law will be visiting from Germany, and we will be flying from LAX to Toronto (Buffalo is much cheaper, but we prefer a non-stop flight). Our kids will not be coming, so it will be just myself, husband and MIL. I just found out that we will be there on the weekend before Canadian Thanksgiving. Right now, we are thinking of 2 nights in Toronto and 3 nights in Niagara Falls. I have been looking through old posts here, the 2007 Fodor's Toronto book, and other web sites but I am still confused. Here are my questions:

1. How busy are attractions generally on that weekend before Thanksgiving?
2. MIL is not a big "city" person. In Toronto, we would like to see the CN Tower and St. Lawrence & Kensington Markets. I'm not quite sure what else she would be interested in. She is more in to gardens and nature than shopping or museums. Any suggestions would be welcome.
3. Hotels. We would like a hotel with a nice view which is close enough to public transit and in a nice walking-around neighborhood. We were thinking of the Westin Harbour Castle, but it looks kind of isolated. Budget is under $250. Any suggestions are welcome.
4. Car. We were originally planning on renting at the Toronto airport. However, it looks that we won't need a car for the first couple of days in Toronto. I haven't looked into airport shuttles or in-city car rental offices yet, so any tips will be appreciated. Also, will it be an issue if we take the Canadian rental car into the U.S. at Niagara?
4. Helicopter/aircraft tours. I see there are several companies at Niagara. Any personal recommendations? Also, I have looked for a broader air tour that maybe encompasses parts of Lakes Huron, Ontario and Erie, but I haven't had any luck.
5. Hotels at Niagara falls. I have it narrowed down to The Marriott or Embassy Suites. Comments?
6. Daytrips from Niagara would be Niagara-on-the Lake and Welland Canal. Suggestions on particularly beautiful fall foliage drives?
7. Niagara Attractions - We will probably due the typical tourist things: Maid of the Mist, Journey behind the Falls, Whirpool aero car. My MIL's question was how wet will we get and how cold and uncomfortable will we be in October? Any tips would be appreciated.
8. Restaurants - We try to avoid chains. We always like to try the local specialties and different ethnic places. In Toronto, Monsoon, Spring Rolls and Chiado (Portuguese) look interesting from my reading so far. Any Toronto "institutions" that we should try? At Niagara, only the restaurant in the Skylon Tower is on my radar screen. Other suggestions?

I told you I had a lot of questions! It seems the more research I do, the more ????? I have. Thanks for your patience in reading through this. If you have an answer to any one of these questions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Gavin

1. There is nothing special about the weekend before Thanksgiving from a crowd point of view.
2. Given that your MIL is more interested in nature than cities why not take a ferry to Toronto Island and and let her be impressed by a Great Lake. Toronto has many interesting neighbourhoods outside of downtown that are nice to explore.
4. Taking a rental car accross the border should not be a problem. Many people do it. Be sure the rental company knows your intentions and check their terms.

That's all I have to say except to agree with you that non-stop is worth paying extra for.

TobieT

Hi lvk~

I will give you a little feedback.....

Toronto

The airport shuttle to several hotels can be booked here:

http://torontoairportexpress.com/

If you're planning on taking the shuttle from the airport, I would stay at the Royal York or the Westin Harbor Castle. If you get a room with a view of the lake at the Westin, it's wonderful. The hotel has a frequent shuttle downtown so the fact you're not in a "neighbourhood" has never bothered me. The Royal York is a charming older hotel and the Gold Floor would be a nice treat for all of you with a more relaxed atmosphere....since you won't have kids with you. It is right downtown.

http://www.fairmont.com/royalyork/Ac...tGoldIndex.htm

I'd check and see what shows may be on if that's something your mil (or you) could be interested in:

http://www.torontolivetheatre.com/

Wander around the Distillery District---not strictly a shopping destination as much as a historical and cultural spot with great cafes and restaurants:

http://www.thedistillerydistrict.com/

As for gardens and pleasant walks, the area around Casa Loma is very enjoyable, even if you don't fancy taking in the home:

http://www.torontoneighbourhoods.net...l_toronto.html

I also really love the buildings and grounds of the University of Toronto, and Yorkville, for strolling if it's pleasant. The city of Toronto has a site with some recommended walks if you think that might be interesting:

http://www.toronto.ca/parks/recreati...over_index.htm




Niagara

You've mentioned your mil is not a "big city" person so I'm wondering if you've considered staying somewhere like Niagara on the Lake or Jordan for your time in Niagara. The Falls themselves are spectacular of course, but it is very busy and crowded in Niagara Falls. There is no comparison in dining from the city to Niagara on the Lake either, though the Skylon would give you wonderful views.

The drive along the Niagara Parkway into Niagara on the Lake is gorgeous, and the secondary roads that the Twenty Valley wine route is on, are lovely anytime of the year. I think she would love those areas. If you do consider staying in NOTL, we love the Riverbend Inn, on the Niagara Parkway as you drive into town. Vineyards surround the property, but it's still only minutes from the waterfront, heritage homes and gorgeous gardens.

http://www.riverbendinn.ca/

http://www.20valley.ca

Here's some photos for your mil..

http://www.niagaraonthelake.com/gallery/index.php?cat=4

Hope that helps with a few things!

garyt22

Tobie has done an excellent job (again) of pointing you in the right direction, however i would add a few things... first of all consider also the Holiday Inn on King and the Intercontinental on Front as additional Hotel choices... they will put you in the heart of the Entertainment district making travel around the City a bit easier... you are a bit further from the water, but its only a $4 cab ride away...you can request city or water view rooms

At the Intercontinental, you will be right next to the CN Tower, a few minutes walk to Kensington or St. Lawrence, the Theatres and transit is across the street... HI on King is a few blocks closer to Kensington and a bit North....

Casa Loma is a very nice tour and includes the building and gardens that are very well kept... MIL dream tour!

Don't bother with a car, the Hotel parking will cost as much as your cabs and misc. transit...


For Niagara, the Marriott or Embassy are in the Casino Zone and offer great far views from the hill above the main viewing zone... if you are into the Casino thing, good places to stay, however lots of new construction across the street...

I would also recommend Niagara on the Lake for your stay with a day ride into the Falls... Riverbend is beautiful and there are dozens of B&Bs as well as quaint hotels... also consider taking MIL to the Konzelman and Reif wineries as they are transplanted Germans and would welcome her with open arms... your food choices would also be met at the wineries with Peller, On the Twenty, Strewn, East Dell, and Riverbend all of high quality...Skylon is a novelty, but if you must, you must.

For Niagara, air tours must fly very high above the Falls for safety reason and are very pricey for the value.

The best tours are the wettest and may be too much for MIL... the best in Order:

Niagara Jet Boats- ride into the rapids but leave MIL at the Dock.

Cave of the Winds US side- walk down to the Base of the Falls and wander up to the "Hurricane Deck" but leave MIL in the Gift shop.

Maid of the Mist - wet but worth it...take MIL with a warning and she will thank you afterward.

Journey behind the Falls- Can Side, Take MIL for a view of the back of the Falls through a tunnel behind.

Whirlpool Aero Car - gondola ride over the whirlpool - dry MIL

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse!

BAK

Well, it certainly is possible to get a variety of advice.

Taking a limo (usually a regular Lincoln Town CAr, not some stretched out monstrosity -- is about the same price for three people as taking the giant highway bus from the airport, and the limo will get you right to your hotel, whereas the big bus has only a few specific stops.

I'd flip your nights, to 3 in Toronto and 2 in Niagara on the Lake. Take the limo from the airport, and then rent the car the morning of the day before you go to Niagara ont he Lake, and use it that day for sightseeing off the subway line.

Depending on the defnition of "attraction" you should not have to cope with big crowds, but if you want to go to the theatre, book tickets in advance to be on the safe side.

Spur of the moment? There are often tickets available at the last minute.

St, Lawrence Market is closed on Sunday (part is open as a flea market / antique market, but the food part is closed)Kensington is open on Sunday, as is most of the surrounding Chinatown.

Allen GArdens, indoor conservatory with lots of flowers, is open and worth a visit. Jarvis and Gerradr, more or less. Semi-walkable from downtown, or take a cab, or save it for your car-day. Free parking in behind the buildings.

Find info for Royal Botanical GArdens in Burlington, on the way to Niagara region. Worth an hour or more for your MIL.

The City of Niagara Falls, where the falls actually are, and the Town of Niagara on the Lake, where the quaint shops, small hotels, eexcellent theatre and best restaurants are about half an hour apart by car.

Just follow the river.

Assumingy ou are Americans and have passports, and GErman MIL has her passport, you'll be fine taking a car into the USA and bringing it back. As someone said, tell the car rental company this is the plan; there may be insurance obligations or notes to add to the rental agreement.

There are excellent greenhouse iup river a five minute drive from the brink of the falls. You can get within a couple of yards of tyhe falls, by the way.

Weather? Anywhere from 45 to 80 in early October, but more likely int he 60's. Maid of the Mist provides raincoats.

You are right about the Harbour CAstle being isolated. It looks closer on a map than it feels when you're walking under highways and over railroad tracks. There's an easy streetcar stop outside, but really, pick somewhere else.

DEfining "close" is tricky. Niagara is close, in that you can go down and back in a day, and even see a show in the evening and still return to Toronto in time for bed. But Lake Erie and Huron really are pretty far away.

Restaurants -- Toronto has pretty much anything you can imagine. The Institutions" seem to have closed. No more Ed's Warehouse or Old Ed's. Winston's is gone. Ports of Call, although that was a million years ago.

Swiss Chalet for a chicken dinner with french fries is ab out as much a Toronto institution as there is today. Excellent, byy the way, and cheap. Lots of locations, although the original just closed, to be replaced by a condo.

Toronto has lots of intresting neighborhoods with good to excellent local restaurants. Closer to your trip we can give you up to date info for Bloor WEst Village, Greektown, Yonge and Eglinton, The BEaches, where you'll be surrounding by locals who like good food that they can walk to from their homes.

BAK

quicksilver

I'd echo the recommendations re. Casa Loma gardens, University of Toronto campus and, especially, Toronto Island.

If you have warm weather (and you probably will) you might want to make the journey out to High Park. It's big--roughly half the size of Central Park--and would be a lovely place to spend a half day in the sun.

http://www.toronto.ca/parks/highpark.htm

Although the north end of the park is reachable by subway, I'd head for the south end instead, via the Queen Street West streetcar, where you can take in Grenadier Pond and the Hillside Gardens.

http://www.kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~sto.../high_park.jpg
http://www.isprogram.utoronto.ca/ima.../High-Park.jpg

You could even collect some lovely upscale picnic items at Le Gourmand (152 Spadina Ave., just south of Queen) before getting on the streetcar.

Enjoy your trip!

- Quicksilver -

kodi

I also would recommend switching to 3 nights in Toronto and 2 nights in Niagara. I take many visiting people to Niagara Falls, and one day is really enough to enjoy the Falls.

As BAK suggested, you could visit the Royal Botanical Gardens in Burlington www.rbg.ca on your way to or from Niagara. You pass right through Burlington. There are many different areas, so if you are interested, be sure and study their site. The boardwalk in the wilderness section is great, as is the Rock Garden.

You could also take a day trip north of Toronto to enjoy the beautiful fall colours. You don't have to go nearly as far as cottage country, but could go to the Forks of the Credit area, north west of the city.
As the time gets closer, I think there may even be web sites devoted to the colours and different drives. YOu are coming at prime time for the colours and north of the city is spectacular.

If your MIL is not into cities, you could even stay in Burlington on your way to Niagara. As well as the RBG, there are some great conservation areas just north of Burlington where the colours and scenery are great. Goolge under Halton Region Conservation.

toedtoes

Check your car rental's terms about taking the car into the US.

I just read on my budget rental that they charge $7.50CAD per day if you intend on taking it into the US - they don't indicate if that charge is attached to the entire rental or only the days you plan on travelling over the border (I'm assuming the former).

Luckily, I figure I'll just walk across, but if I was planning on driving, it would have been an additional $140CAD to my rental amount.

cd

We have stayed at Embassy Suites and will stay there again. Make sure you have a room with a view as the Falls lighted at night is beautiful. The Embassy also offers a very, very good breakfast buffet along with their room rates which makes it a good value.
We enjoyed taking an afternoon drive to Niagara on the Lake and having lunch there but I would not stay there as IMO there is nothing to do unless your doing the wine tours. All the action is at the Falls.
Be sure to walk around Goat Island even if you don't go down into Cave of the Winds, the Falls view from there is amazing, it's as if you can reach out and touch them.

CanadaKate

lvk,

The Harbour Castle Westin isn't, IMHO, terribly isolated. It's a very short walk from Harbourfront where you can watch craftspeople at work. There are Japanese, Chinese, seafood and sports pub type restaurants within walking distance.

As well as TTC bus service very close by, the light rapid transit (underground streetcar) which connects to the subway system is just half a block away. And if you want to go over to the Toronto Islands, the ferry dock is right beside the hotel.

A pleasant 1/2 day can be spent taking the ferry to Ward's Island, having lunch at the Rectory Restaurant, walking to Centre Island or Hanlon's Point and taking the ferry back from one of those spots.

Of the restaurants you mentioned, I'd suggest avoiding Spring Rolls. They are a chain that presents themselves as pan-asian restaurants then offer iceberg lettuce with tired tomatoes as their house salad. There are so many wonderful restaurants in Toronto that you almost have to narrow down the types of food you're interested in before asking for recommendations.

Have a wonderful visit!

CanadaKate

hdm

Hi Ivk,
I haven't read all of the above posts so please excuse me if I'm repeating. I did see that someone recommended Niagara on the Lake and I heartily agree. However, I think the Shaw Festival may still be on in October (I'm not sure, though) so you might want to book someplace soon and maybe include some theatre in your trip.

Regarding gardens, I believe the Butterfly Conservatory is near Niagara, and there are botanical gardens in Hamilton which is about an hour's drive from Toronto. In Toronto, there are lovely greenhouses in Allan Gardens. This is an area of town that is somewhat depressed and you may see some street/homeless people but it's not unsafe and the gardens are lovely. Also there's a very nice park/gardens called Edwards Gardens in the north-ish part of the city.

For hotels, try the downtown Novatel, the Holiday Inn on King Street, or the Strathcona -- they should all be within your price range. You certainly won't need a car in the city.

I haven't been on the Maid of the Mist for years but as I recall they give you big raincoats. Your face gets a bit wet though.

http://www.toronto.ca/ is the City of Toronto website and there's a section on parks and gardens. Also try www.toronto.com for entertainment, restaurants, etc.

Have a great visit!

lvk

Thanks for all the great replies. I will look into your suggestions and I'm sure I'll be back with more questions.

Hey hdm, did you know that you are quoted a couple of times in the 2007 Fodor's Toronto book?

hdm

You're kidding! No, I didn't know that! How do I find it?

lvk

Here's a link to Amazon. http://tinyurl.com/2e8zkm

You are on page 65 and 147. I haven't scoured the book to find others yet. Those just popped out at me.

hdm

Thanks, Ivk. I'm going to go to my local bookstore and take a look at it.

DennyO

Just to echo an earlier poster about the fall foliage. Its rare that you'll see much colour until just after Thanksgiving, but a bit north of the city it is earlier. The "Forks of the Credit" mentioned are nice to see, even green, there is a convervation park there worth seeing, it is located in the village of Belfountain, if you want to see its location on Mapquest or the like. Its about a one hour drive from downtown Toronto.

And, to echo another point, you can see your fill of the Niagara area in two days. Its nice area, a natural wonder of the world, but 2 days is for sure enough. There is also a large floral garden along the Niagara Parkway, near Queenston, between the Falls and Niagara-on-the-Lake.

moolyn

Ivk, I'm so pleased that you are interested in visiting my home towns. We live in downtown Toronto, near the St. Lawrence market, and spend our weekends in Niagara-on-the-lake. I agree with others that Niagara-on-the-lake would be a nicer place to stay than the falls.

The Shaw Festival Theatre is indeed still on in October. The Shaw website is a wonderful resource not only for the theatre but also for accomodations and ideas of what to do in the Niagara area. Most of our houseguests enjoy visiting some of the many great local wineries, many of which have restaurants.

http://www.shawfest.com/

If you are driving between Niagara and Toronto on Thanksgiving weekend, be sure to detour to Balls Falls near Beamsville for the annual craft fair. It's also a nice chance to see autumn colour as well as some old, Ontario buildings and a pretty cascade.

http://www.conservation-niagara.on.c...allsfalls.html
http://www.mestern.net/festivals/ballsfalls/index.php

starrsville

topping in preparation for my trip
I'm getting really excited!

lvk

Topping this again to thank all those who replied. This thread is a treasure trove of great information! I'm now putting the final touches on our itinerary and have a few more questions:

Airport car service: I'd rather not take a "SuperShuttle" or bus-type shuttle that makes a bunch of stops. A towncar service sounds best to me. Any recommendations? Of course I find quite a few when I google, but I'd like any personal recommendations for a reliable, reasonable service.

Foliage: How's it looking so far this year? Is there a chance we will see good color between Toronto and Niagara?

Canadian Thanksgiving: How do you celebrate? Is there a special meal we should look for?

Thanks again!

moolyn

We eat the traditional turkey Thanksgiving dinner here too.

Unfortunately, the colour is a little late this year. I only spotted one red maple tree on my morning walk around NOTL last weekend. Your best bet for fall colour, with a Canadian "u", is on the escarpment so you might want to visit Balls Falls or one of the wineries in the "upper bench" above Vineland and Jordon enroute between Toronto and Niagara. There are many prize winning Niagara wines, especially ice wines.