xxx

In the U.S. we are proud to say we are American. In Europe - the same.<BR>However, many times that I have travelled to Canada I have noticed that the Canadians actually still say they are from wherever their ancestors are from. I have a Canadian friend in Toronto who actually claims to be Italian though she has never been to Italy, let alone Europe and she is 33 years old. Her parents are in their 70s and they immigrated to Canada when they were around 21 and her first language was Italian, yet she only uses English and occasionally Italian with her parents. I am sure it does not apply to all Canadians and us Americans probably do the same to a lesser extent, but would you recognize these people as your own citizens, or are they truly Canadian if that is where they were born and raised?

xxx

This is a weird phenomenon that, for the most part, you will only experience in Toronto. In most other parts of Canada immigrants have become immersed in the local culture but in Toronto, hundreds of cultures exist on their own. There are some people who have been here twenty years and never learned to speak English. They don't have to.<BR><BR>This has it's good points and bad points but I think it makes Toronto a fascinating collection of cultures.

Maria

I have to agree with Snorkel. I am Canadian but my parents are from Sicily. When a Canadian asks me what nationality I am I say Sicillian...I think the Canadian part is pretty much understood. However if I was in Europe and some asked me what nationality I was I would say Canadian.<BR>But yes if your parents were Caker and thier parents were Caker then you probably wouldn't (shouldn't) be reaching that far to find some sort of European or Non-North American ancestry.<BR>P.S ~ Didn't you post this in the European room too?

Susan

I agree that it is common in Toronto. Oddly enough, I was just talking to some co-workers about it. I think it may also happen in Montreal. My co-worker was born and raised in Montreal, but her parents are from Italy. She calls herself Italian. Even her kids seem to think of themselves as Italian. However, I think she would consider herself Canadian first.

gary

Although it's a simplification the basic explanation is that while the US prides itself on being a 'Melting Pot', Canada is a 'Mosaic'. We are in Canada conditioned to value our ethnicity and the Federal Govt. encourages this through it's multiculturalism programs. But virtually all of us, atleast by the second generation, identify ourselves as Canadian outside of the country.

Artemis

I think another important distinction is *where* you ask the question. If you ask "where are you from" to a Canadian *in Canada,* we're likely to assume that you already know we're Canadian, and therefore will answer with our region of ancestry. And that's one difference between many Americans and Canadians: Americans feel the need to thump their chests and proudly proclaim their Americanism on their own soil, while Canadians are far less likely to do that on our own soil (except on special occasions like Canada day or at the Olympics).<BR><BR>Now when travelling internationally, it's a whole other story. Canadians will proudly proclaim their identity -- especially to correct any misconceptions that we might be American!<BR><BR>(I'm not saying any of this to start another America vs. Canada war of words, just to point out some of the general differences without laying any value judgements about which is "better.")

???

Maria<BR><BR>Please explain "Caker"<BR>Thanks.

Maria

It is short for Mungia cake (sp?) Pronounced mun-ja-cake. It is slang for a white or coccasion person. Also said as Cake, and Caker. In a sentance: Strict Italian parents don't like their daughters marrying Cake's (Caker's) (MungiaCakes,(sp?))...

JMM

Actually this is one aspect of Canadian society I find deeply disturbing. I am Canadian. It really does not nor should it matter where my ancestors came from (or for that matter where I was born - in my case some of my ancestors have been in Canada since the ice bridge from Alaska; others arrived more recently) I think that if you are a citizen of a country (through birth or immigration) that is your nationality. Only people with dual citizenship should say I am Canadian and whatever. And I find it especially distasteful when people who are born in Canada and have never lived in the country of their ancestors claim they are something other than Canadian. I am sorry if this offends anyone but this is one issue that makes me intensely patriotic - this is the country I owe my allegiance to and I think more canadians should feel the same way.

For JMM

When someone of Italian background (for example) tell you he's Italian, he does not mean that he is not Canadian, he is merely informing you of his cultural background. In Canada, families place a lot of value on their heritage and its traditions. I would not read anything negative towards Canada in this.

mimi taylor

Here in Boston and surrounding area it is the same. I was born in the USA, my parents in Italy, in and my Italian ghetto where my childhood was everyone said they were Italian rather than American, it's an immigrant thing.

What

What about now, Mimi? Don't you still consider yourself Italian? Don't you retain a lot of the Italian cultural traditions with which you were brought up? It's only natural

Susan

Maria, Are you talking about race or etnicity? You say that Italians do not want their daughters to marry Caucasian men. All of the Italians I know are white! I'm confused. Please expain. (I have never considered Italians 'non-white')

xxx

I agree that this is a bad part of the Canadian "mosaic." Yet, on the other hand, it gives immigrants a sense of pride to be BOTH Canadian and to be proud of their "mother country." It also is good because it does not contribute to ultra-nationalism that is rampant in the USA, which leads people to act in a sense of "my country, right or wrong."

Really

It also gives us the best restaurants!

Gisella

Italians are white, but it's the cultural thing. I don't think Maria meant a skin colour (although all the Italins that I know would hate it if their daughter would marry an african, chinese, etc..etc..) Southern Europeans have a certain way of bringing up their children. We're basically taught to marry Europenas because they will help keep the culture alive for generations. "Cakers" can't understand this...it's just a Europe thing. Actually, I think its really good, and I don't think that this a bad trait to find in a person.

Farrah

I am Canadian. I was born in Canada. I have lived in Canada for not even half of my life. When I was small, I lived in Africa. When I was a teen, I went to a public, francophone high school in Belgium then I returned home to Ottawa. I then worked on a cruise ship (only three months), went to school in Toronto and for the past three years I have been living in Europe. My parents are in India. They are Canadian, born in Canada but as long as we have been born (their children), they have basically been away. My grandparents are French, Scottish and Irish. I do not say I am French, Scottish or Irish. The closest I get is in saying I am a bilingual Canadian and I love Quebec and I love the rest of Canada. I probably will not be returning to Canada as I am marrying in September and my fiance is deeply tied here. But I will always say that I am Canadian. As for my future kids, if they have dual citizenship, then they are also Canadian, but if not, then only their mother is Canadian. It really bothers me when people in Canada say they are Italian or French. If they were born in Canada and raised there, they are more of Cdn. culture than anything else. By saying that they have the traditions inherited by their parents, they must also ask themselves when the last time was that their parents LIVED at 'home.' My experience in Portugal was the following: I was in intensive Portuguese language lessons and one of my classmates said she was Portuguese, but her accent was clearly American. When the others pressed for more information, she said her parents were immigrants in the U.S. and that was the first time she has been to Portugal because her parents were hoping for her to meet a Portuguese man. The ideas that this girl had about Portugal were so outdated that the teacher was falling off his chair laughing. This is what happens in all immigrant cultures, they forget that their own countries have also changed and they continue old traditions. My cousins are only 'half-Italian' yet they call themselves Italians - I can't understand this. So, I have been in Europe for a while, I was partly brought up here, my best friends are European and I live here. If those people in Canada who have never been to Italy call themselves Italian, than I might as well too because I have been there and I lived there also. BUT I AM NOT - nor will I ever be. Why are people at home so ashamed of being from country who gave their family everything that they have?

For Farrah

Farrah, do you realize what you wrote? That you will always be Canadian and that if your children have dual citizenship, they will also be Canadian. How is that different from and Italian immigrant to Canada who says he will always be Italian and his children will always be Italian? I think it is a cultural thing. It has to do with retaining ties to our upbringing and has nothing to do with rejection. Best of luck on your upcoming marriage.

Farrah

All I meant was that if you have the actual citizenship of another country, or unless you were born and brought up there, then you are of that origin. If not, I believe it is where you were brought up, not who your ancestors or parents are - without realizing it, they will 'conform' to which ever society 'norms' it is that they are residing in.