Saltuarius

As pedant in residence not only is Neil allowed, but encouraged to show off.

I am puzzled though as to why he thinks being city folks is a positive attribute. Sep 25, 09 at 03:02 AM

Not after your crown Neil, just showing off a little.

Neil_Oz

"I am puzzled though as to why he thinks being city folks is a positive attribute"

I'm just an unregenerate townie. Silence unnerves me. I get twitchy if I can't hear ambulance sirens at night. Gum trees are creepy - who knows what dangers lurk among them? And I'm sure a lot of the locals in country towns boycotted the Great Guns Buyback.

Kriol

I'm also genuinely curious about welfare amongst the Aboriginal community. The groups of unemployed, drunk Aboriginals camped out on public streets while people walk by and ignore them, truly perplexes me. I realize there is a much deeper social issue here, but how does the welfare end of it work?

There is a problem which cannot be denied. However drunk whites camp out..it is called backpackers free camping and partying. Indigenous can sit under a tree or by the road if they so wish, who are we suggest otherwise. The only difference is whites are doing the same between 4 walls out of sight. Does it make it better if we hide our pain, our faults? Forcing again another level of rules on what were a free people. Putting them behind urban walls out of site doesn't make the problem go away even though our urban dwellers seem to think it does.

Many aboriginal nations were never cave dwellers, maybe a special few would go into a cave. They do not go into caves, they die when we force them into cells. They like to free camp and sit under trees.Do not force these people indoors because we do not like what we see. Let them be.

LynAK

For awhile I thought this thread should be re-named "Sticker Shock American Health Care System"..sorry Joanne, for hijacking your thread, but obviously this has struck some nerves. Hope you don't mind too much and are continuing to enjoy Australia.

Neil wrote:
"Much of the opposition is coming from people whose costs are being masked by their employers and who are worried that reform will jeopardise their current level of care."

This hits the nail on the head. My husband owns a small business in Florida. We have fewer that 5 employees. We pay half of an employee's premium. The other half comes out of their paycheck. Our small group plan is more expensive that what is available for employees of large groups (like schools or large companies). Through our small business insurance, for my husband, my daughter and me the TOTAL cost (what our company pays plus what we pay from our paychecks to ourselves) = $15,300 per year and that doesn't include co-pays for doctor visits and medicine, deductible for hospital or emergency room, etc.

For many people the "cost" of their insurance is ONLY the portion THEY pay from their paychecks. It is apparently hard for them to see that the employer's cost is passed on to them in lower wages or fewer benefits (like paid vacation, which is not mandated and is rarely offered in our field...competing with other small businesses that do not offer any health insurance or paid vacation is a challenge. Having universal health care would level the playing field for small businesses)

Also, the premiums for our small business group increase for each employee dramatically as they age (which isn't generally the case for large group plans). Every 5 years the individual's premium rises and when they hit 60..WOW! The cost for a male at age 60 is around $850 per month. This is not for a family plan. So it is very difficult for an employer with this kind of small group plan to pay for an older worker, even if a valued employee.

We have friends--a couple in their late 50s--one who is self-employed with no employees and the other works for a pre-school that doesn't offer insurance. They buy health insurance on the private market through no group plan. Their yearly premium is over $20,000...more than the pre-school teacher gets paid in a year. Next year one of them turns 60. They are really afraid of their bill when they have to renew. Talk about holding signs by the roadside: "Will Work for Health Insurance"

LynAK

Prices stated above are in US dollars.

KimbyMT

Sticker shock for Americans who booked their flights months ago is compounded by the fact that the USD was worth about $1.40 AUD at the time and now is worth only $1.15.

The prices in the guidebooks are sure to be outdated by at least 2 years, so if Australian inflation is anything like US inflation we know our travel budget is gonna get whacked as soon as we touch down in Oz.

And thirdly, by the time we're well-off enough to do world travel other than as a backpacking college student, we're old enough to "remember when" a cup of coffee cost 50 cents and a nice meal in a restaurant was about $15 for two!

BTW, I believe "sticker shock" may originate from new auto prices being posted on a sticker in the vehicle window. Since one buys a new car relatively seldom, the price creep between purchases can produce shock when looking at the sticker.

KimbyMT

Does anyone else remember when the US motel chain MOTEL 6 opened? A room was $6.00. Yes, six dollars US. Even now, it's possible to find hotel rooms in the US outside major cities for less than $60.

In Oz, the guidebooks describe very basic rooms for two with shared bath for 70-90 AUD. No wonder we're in shock!

Salstar

Reverting to JoanneH original letter regarding the cost of paperbacks, I must admit that the retail cost of our books in book shops are quite expensive. However, there are other options to attain cheaper books, ie purchase pre-loved ones from markets or second-hand book stores or, better still, if you know an Australian resident, you can request they borrow your favourite book(s) (on their card) from the local library. Sydney is blessed with fantastic libraries offering rate payers late release books (for free) for the borrowing time of around 3 weeks. I also have a response to KimbyMT comment above about the cost of our Motels. I have travelled all around the world and, in my opinion, the general standard of Australia's Motels are among the highest in the world. I was absolutely appalled at the standard of UK accommodation (especially in London where even some of the most expensive Hotel accommodation is cramped, dirty and exorbitantly priced). Most of Australia's Motels offer a lot of extras that are rarely offered in Europe or the US, eg tea-making facilities (with biscuits) and mini fridges. The large proportion of Australian Motels also offer maps and general tourist information, swimming pools and the staff are usually very friendly (unlike many of the morose, unfriendly staff found in Europe). For the most part, we have found Motels throughout Australia (in all States) consistently comfortable and clean. You can find great motel accommodation in outback NSW for around $50 to $70 and if you book on-line, you can get some great deals.

KimbyMT

If you like to "play it by ear" and not book ahead, can you get good deals as a walkin during November, when it isn't high season?

As for extras, I'd rather not have them than have to pay for stuff I don't want or need.

Peter_S_Aus

In rural areas, the best accomodation deals are at country hotels. Just walk into the bar, and ask if they have a room.

Susan7

I'm not sure about walk-in prices but the last minute booking services sometimes deliver a deal: wotif, Gostay, etc.

Is the shock here not so much the prices as the exchange rate, as KimbyMT points out the AUD has been steadily climbing against the US dollar. BTW, I've never managed to find a bargain staying in New York, $200 seems about the standard rate now for a very basic room.

Melnq8

KimbyMT -

I guess I'm not old enough to remember when Motel 6 was only $6, but I do remember when it was under $20.

I always feel like I'm getting a good deal when I go home for a visit to CO, since everything is cheaper than here in Australia. For example, I've booked a large hotel suite with kitchen facilities for an extended stay at $69 per night ($74 with tax) including breakfast, evening reception, daily cleaning, free parking, free phone calls, free internet access. Granted, I negotiated the rate and I'm a good customer there, but their normal rate is still only between $90-110, before tax.

I've also booked a rental car for three weeks at $635, whereas I just paid $776 (about $690 US at current exchange rate)for a two week rental in Australia. Same type of car, same conditions, tax included in both.

It's even cheaper to fly TO Australia than FROM Australia. Something to do with taxes, but it costs me almost twice as much to leave Perth as it does to get here.

As far as books go, used paperbacks at a used book store here in Perth are $10, pretty close to the same price as NEW paperbacks in the US (including sales tax) at today's exchange rate.

I've lived in and traveled to many places in the world, and I've never seen book prices as low as in the US. I think it's a shame to discourage people from reading by charging so much for books. Of course there's always the library, but I don't understand why other countries charge so much for a simple paperback.

Having said all that, I'm a fan of good value, and when I travel in Australia, eat out in Australian restaurants, shop in Australian food stores, I generally feel that I get a pretty good value. I save my other shopping (books, clothes, electronics, linens, shoes, etc) for my trips to the US.

KimbyMT

New York (and San Francisco and other large cities) is an exception to the rule of cheap hotels in the US, compared to Australia.

Even in Paris, 2 years ago, we found a charming hotel 2 blocks from the end of the Pont Neuf with ensuite bath for 90 Euros per night.

The cheapest room I can find in Uluru - where one company controls all the lodging as well as the campground - was 150 AUD and you had to walk to a toilet/shower block shared by the campground. Or a twin bed "tent" in the permanent tent village with shared bathroom block for 90 AUD. Regular hotel rooms start around 300AUD per night, unless you book a 3 night package.

That's sticker shock!

cwn

This is an interesting thread. I don't like the Lounge because of all the "yelling".

Just want to say something about why some Americans are afraid of what will happen when the only insurance we can get is handled by the US government. The government has a hard time doing anything right.

The government run medicare is not as good coverage as what we had from the private sector when we were 64. We are 65 now. Medicare only pays for hospital room and board, you have to buy from the government coverage for all other services and to get the coverage we had at 64 we still have to go to the private sector.

Well, we turned 65 with in two months of each other and are reguired to go on medicare.

cwn

Sorry, I hit the submit button before I finished. I wanted to say that this has only served to increase my feeling that the government shouldn't have a say in how people must deal with their health care. It is my opinion they can't provide any better health care than the private sector but can sure help make it worse.

I am glad Melnq8 made her comments on her aborgine observations. We felt the same when we were traveling around Darwin and the Northern Territory. We saw only one aborgine in what is probably a good paying job and he was the only one we saw doing any kind of work but we did see many wandering around listlessly.

We had a great time traveling around Australia, the people were great. We liked the more rual areas the best I think. There, I didn't really feel cost of things much different than in the States. I did think things...food and lodging... in Sydney were not as good value verses cost as some other parts of the country but that is true for most big cities.

Neil_Oz

"...some Americans are afraid of what will happen when the only insurance we can get is handled by the US government."

cwn, I've been following the debate and nowhere have I seen anyone propose a government monopoly of health insurance. Certainly that's not what President Obama is proposing.

But I wonder whether US government agencies are as bad as many (but by no means all) Americans believe them to be. But if they are, perhaps it's because they're responding to the low expectations so many people have of government?

Either way, it seems to be a peculiarly American situation. Every other advanced country has much more government involvement in health care, and from what I read none would even consider moving towards the American profit-based model. Certainly in Australia any political party that campaigned on a platform of weakening Medicare and the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme would face electoral oblivion.

In per capita GDP terms our system costs just over half the US system, and delivers better outcomes. It's not perfect, but nobody is denied medical care, preventive services included, because of a lack of insurance coverage, and nobody is made literally bankrupt, as are many Americans, by extortionate medical bills.

That being the case I'm at a loss as to why you feel that a system dominated by the profit motive beats the more efficient and fairer models adopted by the rest of the developed world. To me, it looks more like a national disgrace, and a very expensive one at that.

Historically Australians have been more comfortable with a dash of "socialism" than Americans. Surveys consistently show that most of us would prefer improved goverment services to receiving a tax cut.

JoanneH

No idea of what I started <G> Since I drove to Collecter on Thursday then back down to Albury Friday. Off to the long way to round the not coast road to South Beach Kingston and Adelaide. Getting there after dark I spend a hour touring the alleys of Adelaide as my gps has a hissy fit and kept taking up one and down another. Spent the last two days seeing horses, visiting farms and winery’s. Pulled into Mt. Gambier last night and am off to Portland.
Thanks for all this information on your system. I never get a day off I work 7 days a week, bookshop, and it costs me appx. $900-950 to take two weeks off the person working only 6 hours a day. I work from 8:30am-6pm M-Sat and Sunday 11-3. Having a great time, no problem getting lodging on short notice, not cheap but no problems.

cwn

"Historically Australians have been more comfortable with a dash of "socialism" than Americans. Surveys consistently show that most of us would prefer improved goverment services to receiving a tax cut."

Neil, that is very true. I too would like improved government services and I wouldn't expect a tax cut. But, in truth, it will mean a tax increase which I definitely don't want. There is no way the government can get into the health care bussiness for the whole country....it hasn't been able to do it for the seniors.

I don't know anything about Australia's health care plan, but what I know about Canada's scares me and many others.

I do know what the presidents say will happen isn't always what actually happens!

Guess we shall see what happens with this.

Libretto

"I think it's a shame to discourage people from reading by charging so much for books."

Melnq8, Australia actually has one of the highest rates of book ownership in the world. In addition the most recent report (2008) from the Friends of Libraries Australia also shows that Australia's 1600 public libraries (all COMPLETELY free,by law) lend over 180 million items per year to their 12 million users. Again this is a very, very high use of public libraries compared with most Western countries.So the "cost" of books in Australia and has not had the affect of either restricting readership, or ownership, of books.
......................

And as this very interesting thread shows dollar costs are all "value relative".

My American daughter in law would say cosmetics, clothes and perfumes, for example, are more expensive in dollar amounts here than in the U.S.

But in the US. she would never have been able to afford the level of education my Australian son has had, nor have very inexpensive health care with (to her) gob smackingly cheap pharmaceuticals, nor the cheap public transport which reduces the need for a car. Insurance is cheaper, as is seasonal fresh fruit and veg etc, etc...
She feels housing and day to day living expenses here in Melbourne are only slightly dearer than in her home town in California, but that overall she is far better off materially in Australia.

So it is all "relative" and if "sticker shock" were really as bad for every single good and service as it may seem to the original poster, then Australia would be a poor country, with a struggling population, which is the exact opposite of the truth.

JoanneH

I have been talking to locals here and there and it seems everywhere during my travels. Nurses, doctors, publicans etc. My question is if your system is so great why did all of them say if they had something serious and those that had family members that did have something serious all ended up going to US for treatment. Not to be rude just wondering why if our system is so bad they chose to go to usa for treatmentinstead of treatment at home?