Outrageous food prices in Australia!
Nov 30th, 2010, 02:17 AM
#121
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Bokhara, the description from the Greek cafe paragraph you give is the sort I'm thinking of, whether I have the name misplaced or not. Ice cream, milk, flavours (mine would be fresh strawberries). I'd like 'em best when they were thick enough to make your cheeks pucker and your eyes cross. A real patience developer. Not necessarily etiquette. Getting that last noisy bit always drew a raised eyebrow from parents.
That's what I grew up calling a milk shake.
That's what I grew up calling a milk shake.
Dec 1st, 2010, 04:10 PM
#124
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Well, this was quite the 'food fight' but very interesting. I always thought of Oz as having a considerable agricultural component to its economy - but Clifton's comment about central deserts made me want to do some more research. Thanks to Clifton, I'm learning about things like Goyder's Line. (I suppose you Ozzies learned about that in grade school. Me, it's all new.) BTW, for anyone interested: Oz - share of GDP due to agriculture: 3.5%; US - share of GDP due to agriculture - 7.7%.
But the more I read, the more I realize this is a fairly complex aspect of economics. It's an even more complex aspect of human psychology. Do we as travellers get surprised by prices (either on the up or the down side) merely because of a tendency to use our own home experience as a benchmark, or is it ever the case that prices in the country visited might represent a greater or lesser proportion of the total per diem costs, as compared with other countries?
An exhaustive analysis is beyond my resources (I can't afford my own statistics department) but here's a very preliminary one, courtesy the US state department and the per diem allowances posted for Sydney, Aus versus Manhattan/NYC in the US
Sydney: max total per diem $395, broken down as
max lodging rate $218
max meals and incidentals $177 (177/395 *100 = 44.8 per cent of the total max per diem)
Manhattan: (note: rates exclude taxes, but percentages won't be affected)
max total per diem $340, broken down as
max lodging rate $269
Max meals and incidentals $71 (77/340 * 100 = 22.6 per cent of the total max per diem)
So, on the basis of a reasonably objective source (US State department is just trying to get VFM for the taxpayer, regardless of in what location the civil servant serves) and on admittedly a small analysis, it seems that Sydney's food prices account for a considerably greater proportion of total costs than Manhattan's.
Also - again, I have no wish to get into a food fight, especially since I have only visited NYC once, and Sydney not at all - but I would expect both cities to offer a full diversity of food of various qualities, so the difference can't be explained as NYC offering inferior food, for example.)
Not to make a pun, but this does offer some food for thought.
But the more I read, the more I realize this is a fairly complex aspect of economics. It's an even more complex aspect of human psychology. Do we as travellers get surprised by prices (either on the up or the down side) merely because of a tendency to use our own home experience as a benchmark, or is it ever the case that prices in the country visited might represent a greater or lesser proportion of the total per diem costs, as compared with other countries?
An exhaustive analysis is beyond my resources (I can't afford my own statistics department) but here's a very preliminary one, courtesy the US state department and the per diem allowances posted for Sydney, Aus versus Manhattan/NYC in the US
Sydney: max total per diem $395, broken down as
max lodging rate $218
max meals and incidentals $177 (177/395 *100 = 44.8 per cent of the total max per diem)
Manhattan: (note: rates exclude taxes, but percentages won't be affected)
max total per diem $340, broken down as
max lodging rate $269
Max meals and incidentals $71 (77/340 * 100 = 22.6 per cent of the total max per diem)
So, on the basis of a reasonably objective source (US State department is just trying to get VFM for the taxpayer, regardless of in what location the civil servant serves) and on admittedly a small analysis, it seems that Sydney's food prices account for a considerably greater proportion of total costs than Manhattan's.
Also - again, I have no wish to get into a food fight, especially since I have only visited NYC once, and Sydney not at all - but I would expect both cities to offer a full diversity of food of various qualities, so the difference can't be explained as NYC offering inferior food, for example.)
Not to make a pun, but this does offer some food for thought.
Dec 1st, 2010, 04:21 PM
#125
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Oh, by the way: for Perth
Max per diem total: $500
max lodging rate: $319
max food and incidentals: $181 - as percentage of total, 36.2%
Perth seems relatively cheaper for food than Sydney, although not in an absolute sense of course.
Note: 'incidentals' as an expense weren't defined (at least not on the pages I consulted); as it was, I made the somewhat risky assumption that incidentals didn't contribute much to the variance between 'meals and incidentals' costs, whereas the meals/food portion did.
Max per diem total: $500
max lodging rate: $319
max food and incidentals: $181 - as percentage of total, 36.2%
Perth seems relatively cheaper for food than Sydney, although not in an absolute sense of course.
Note: 'incidentals' as an expense weren't defined (at least not on the pages I consulted); as it was, I made the somewhat risky assumption that incidentals didn't contribute much to the variance between 'meals and incidentals' costs, whereas the meals/food portion did.
Dec 1st, 2010, 05:41 PM
#126
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Didn't think I was going to enter into the food discussions but just a short reflection.
Just been to my local greengrocer - who carries a range of delicatessen type foods as well.
Counted 33 varieties of cheese - mostly from local suppliers - all very high quality.
The imported cheese available was from Italy.
I could also have selected a range of breads from local bakeries - fresh every day, a huge selection of cold meats and as Christmas draws near the most delicious yellow or white peaches.
Now - these are not all low cost - but they are exceptional quality.
We travel to Europe twice a year and have had plenty of opportunity to try these products there - hence I am 'sticking my neck out' and claiming that they are excellent quality.
A few weekends ago three of us enjoyed a two course meal and glass of wine - of high quality - at Saltrams' winery in the Barossa - total cost around $110.
I guess it is all governed by a range of complicated factors.
And - maybe this thread will help all travelers to plan and prepare for wherever they might be heading.
It is disappointing though when people are turned off a place because of a thread that they might be too tired to read right through.
I am sure most of us who love Switzerland are not put off by food costs there!
Happy travels to all visiting Australia this summer.
Just been to my local greengrocer - who carries a range of delicatessen type foods as well.
Counted 33 varieties of cheese - mostly from local suppliers - all very high quality.
The imported cheese available was from Italy.
I could also have selected a range of breads from local bakeries - fresh every day, a huge selection of cold meats and as Christmas draws near the most delicious yellow or white peaches.
Now - these are not all low cost - but they are exceptional quality.
We travel to Europe twice a year and have had plenty of opportunity to try these products there - hence I am 'sticking my neck out' and claiming that they are excellent quality.
A few weekends ago three of us enjoyed a two course meal and glass of wine - of high quality - at Saltrams' winery in the Barossa - total cost around $110.
I guess it is all governed by a range of complicated factors.
And - maybe this thread will help all travelers to plan and prepare for wherever they might be heading.
It is disappointing though when people are turned off a place because of a thread that they might be too tired to read right through.
I am sure most of us who love Switzerland are not put off by food costs there!
Happy travels to all visiting Australia this summer.
Dec 1st, 2010, 08:20 PM
#127
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As one planning on traveling to Australia, we're still planning on going despite the high food costs but it might make us cut our trip short by a week (we were hoping to go for five weeks if we could swing it but the food costs for four make it more of a stretch). Just something I wouldn't have considered, I don't usually think that much about food in the budget (typically American of me I guess). I also feel lucky to be from California where good food is plentiful and fresh and cheap, because we grow it, make it and bottle it here!
Dec 1st, 2010, 08:57 PM
#129
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Hi MonicaRichards - maybe if you start a new post indicating your travel plans people might be able to give more detailed advice about food availability and costs.
This might include local markets, good value places to eat and the suggestion of considering some self catering options.
I think this can be especially helpful if you are planning to be in the main cities or tourist places as this is where some local knowledge can really help.
Knowing about great bargain eateries is often local knowledge, and also finding out about entry fee discounts and transport discounts is always useful.
We too are lucky in that most of what I buy is locally grown but the weather here is playing awful tricks on us at the moment and so prices have gone up a bit.
We are getting lots of rain which we wanted this earlier in the year - but sadly now it is threatening to damage the summer stone fruit crops - and this is sad for the growers and consumers.
I do understand just how costly if can be for four people - we have three now adult offspring and when they come out or travel with us it is quite a lot to consider no matter where we are in the world.
So - see if people can help - and then you can have the five week holiday and be more relaxed about costs.
Happy planning.
This might include local markets, good value places to eat and the suggestion of considering some self catering options.
I think this can be especially helpful if you are planning to be in the main cities or tourist places as this is where some local knowledge can really help.
Knowing about great bargain eateries is often local knowledge, and also finding out about entry fee discounts and transport discounts is always useful.
We too are lucky in that most of what I buy is locally grown but the weather here is playing awful tricks on us at the moment and so prices have gone up a bit.
We are getting lots of rain which we wanted this earlier in the year - but sadly now it is threatening to damage the summer stone fruit crops - and this is sad for the growers and consumers.
I do understand just how costly if can be for four people - we have three now adult offspring and when they come out or travel with us it is quite a lot to consider no matter where we are in the world.
So - see if people can help - and then you can have the five week holiday and be more relaxed about costs.
Happy planning.
Dec 1st, 2010, 09:07 PM
#130
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I have to first identify a source of funding for the plane tickets before I start posting about possible itineraries, etc.! Believe me, if this turns out to be a go, you'll be hearing from me on my own threads!
Dec 2nd, 2010, 03:07 AM
#132
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"It is disappointing though when people are turned off a place because of a thread that they might be too tired to read right through."
Love_travel_Aus, I haven't put off my trip to Oz because of food prices - they're the least of my worries! As a consumer, I have a lot of discretion over what to buy to eat, and a lot less over other things. I can self cater food; I can't fly my own plane to save money!
I wouldn't worry about comments about costs, they just go with the territory of travel. People routinely exclaim over the cost of London, England for tourists, yet they still go there! (On that note: US state department per diem allowance for London is $503, of which meals and incidentals max allowance is $182, which is about 36.2 per cent of the total. So using the US state department as a reference guide, Sydney is cheaper than London - although food costs for Sydney are a relatively higher percentage of the total.)
One thing to bear in mind is that if people are prepared for a place to be expensive, they are more likely to be pleasantly surprised, than the opposite, when they actually arrive.
Love_travel_Aus, I haven't put off my trip to Oz because of food prices - they're the least of my worries! As a consumer, I have a lot of discretion over what to buy to eat, and a lot less over other things. I can self cater food; I can't fly my own plane to save money!
I wouldn't worry about comments about costs, they just go with the territory of travel. People routinely exclaim over the cost of London, England for tourists, yet they still go there! (On that note: US state department per diem allowance for London is $503, of which meals and incidentals max allowance is $182, which is about 36.2 per cent of the total. So using the US state department as a reference guide, Sydney is cheaper than London - although food costs for Sydney are a relatively higher percentage of the total.)
One thing to bear in mind is that if people are prepared for a place to be expensive, they are more likely to be pleasantly surprised, than the opposite, when they actually arrive.
Dec 4th, 2010, 08:58 PM
#134
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I have just returned from 3 months in Australia as a tourist and visiting my family.
I was in Australia 6 years ago when the exchange rate was favourable to the pound. I therefore expected not to be able to pay more for everything given the poor exchange rate this time, but it was in some cases nearly 300% for some items and agree that apart from Bloomfield Lodge in the Daintree Forest (highly recommend paying for this), the quality of food/prices to visit tourist venues was extremely expensive. I spent 8 weeks with my sister in Perth and she sent her daughter out to buy grapes. I kid you not that my niece bought a kilo of grapes that cost $38.99!! My sister is rich but trust me she hit the wall when she got the bill. I think Australia has priced itself out of the tourist market now and this was confirmed to me by the tourist office in Perth where I booked a couple of trips.
I was in Australia 6 years ago when the exchange rate was favourable to the pound. I therefore expected not to be able to pay more for everything given the poor exchange rate this time, but it was in some cases nearly 300% for some items and agree that apart from Bloomfield Lodge in the Daintree Forest (highly recommend paying for this), the quality of food/prices to visit tourist venues was extremely expensive. I spent 8 weeks with my sister in Perth and she sent her daughter out to buy grapes. I kid you not that my niece bought a kilo of grapes that cost $38.99!! My sister is rich but trust me she hit the wall when she got the bill. I think Australia has priced itself out of the tourist market now and this was confirmed to me by the tourist office in Perth where I booked a couple of trips.
Dec 4th, 2010, 09:28 PM
#136
Spassvogel posted several times on this thread. I have just read in the lounge that she died on her way back home. Suffered a cerebral hemorrhage at Abu Dhabi airport during a stopover.
There is a thread about it in the lounge and one in the Africa forum.
There is a thread about it in the lounge and one in the Africa forum.
Dec 4th, 2010, 10:21 PM
#137
Seedless grapes are currently $29.99 a kilo at my neighborhood green grocer stormbird. Bought some crimson grapes on sale last week for $14.99 a kilo as that seemed a deal by comparison.
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"Life consists of days - make every day count"
(Spassvogel's quote from her Fodor's profile)
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"Life consists of days - make every day count"
(Spassvogel's quote from her Fodor's profile)
Dec 4th, 2010, 10:36 PM
#138
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I guess after the worst drought the country's seen in about 100 years, now floods ruining new crops we're going to see some high fruit and veg crop prices for a while, stormbird. Bit like when Cyclone Larry hit the major banana growing area in FNQ and bananas shot to about $15kg.
Sometimes supermarket specials are good, last week asparagus was 89c a bunch in local Woolies, but I usually try to buy local produce at markets, its nearly always much cheaper than the duopoly of Coles and Woolworths, you may not get the variety but you do get quality and freshness. eg, sweet, juicy local pineapples, $2-$3 each, red pawpaw at its best, $2.99 kg, red capsicum 80cents each, lychees $4.99kg (saw them in Woolies yesterday for $16.99kg) and they were nowhere near the quality offered at the markets.
How awful about spassvogel, nelsonian - hard to believe she was only posting here the other day.
Sometimes supermarket specials are good, last week asparagus was 89c a bunch in local Woolies, but I usually try to buy local produce at markets, its nearly always much cheaper than the duopoly of Coles and Woolworths, you may not get the variety but you do get quality and freshness. eg, sweet, juicy local pineapples, $2-$3 each, red pawpaw at its best, $2.99 kg, red capsicum 80cents each, lychees $4.99kg (saw them in Woolies yesterday for $16.99kg) and they were nowhere near the quality offered at the markets.
How awful about spassvogel, nelsonian - hard to believe she was only posting here the other day.
Dec 5th, 2010, 12:40 AM
#139
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I was just up at Colonial Fruits yesterday. Red capsicum (bell pepper) I bought (pretty big) was $1.88 The green of roughly the same size was half that. The Yang Yang Asian grocery had some nice looking red ones right next door for $8.99 per kilo, but no signs saying they were Australian grown. I prefer to look for that sign. Back at Colonial, grapes I saw were 19.99 kilo, so kind of dear. Didn't get those. Bought a whole pineapple, top cut off, for $4.
Bought leeks, spring onions, asparagus, a bag full of spinach and rocket leaves, a few small swiss cup mushrooms, a big bag of onions (around 10 large brown), 4kg of potatoes, some garlic, 6 large carrots, 3 kiwis, a pint of strawberries, 250g of blueberries, 3 bananas, a couple large packets of spices (turmeric and cayenne), a bundle of thai basil, the red and green capsicums and the pineapple ... for just over $50 AUD. The garlic was the only import (Spain). I didn't think that was too bad really.
Bought leeks, spring onions, asparagus, a bag full of spinach and rocket leaves, a few small swiss cup mushrooms, a big bag of onions (around 10 large brown), 4kg of potatoes, some garlic, 6 large carrots, 3 kiwis, a pint of strawberries, 250g of blueberries, 3 bananas, a couple large packets of spices (turmeric and cayenne), a bundle of thai basil, the red and green capsicums and the pineapple ... for just over $50 AUD. The garlic was the only import (Spain). I didn't think that was too bad really.
