Northern Queensland and Northern Territory - how to divide time?
 

We (middle-aged outdoorsy couple) are planning a 3 week trip (first time to Australia) for late October - early November 2009.

We are booked to fly into Cairns on Oct 23 and home from Sydney on November 11. Other than that we have not yet committed to any domestic flights or accommodations reservations. We travelled around New Zealand a couple years back in a rented motor home and loved it, but realize that Australia is huge, and we will have to both limit the areas we visit and the time spent driving between places.

We are wondering about campervan rentals in the Cairns area, and also in the Darwin area. Does not having 4WD limit what we can see very much? Particularly in the Darwin/Kakadu area? We plan to rent self-sufficient campervans with toilet and shower, and are wondering if "free camping" is possible or must we stay in organized camping grounds in many places? Do any campers with Shower/Toilet also have 4WD - if so, I haven't been able to find them searching the rental websites.

How to divide our time? Current thinking is about a week in Cairns/Daintree/Cape Trib/reef area with one campervan/motorhome, then fly to Darwin for another week in another campervan/motorhome in the Darwin/Litchfield/Katherine Gorge/Kakadu area, before flying to Ayers Rock for 3 nights (is that too many?) and onward to Sydney for the final 2 nights (not enough for some folks but probably about right for us).

I am wondering if we are not doing justice to either area by spending only a week (6 full days of sightseeing) to see all the sights we hope to see. But I can't imagine going to Australia and not seeing Uluru and the Olgas (Kings Canyon is optional for us, since we hike in Utah a bunch and believe they are somewhat similar).

Does anyone have any advice for us before we lock in domestic flights and motor home rentals? Basically, should the two areas - Cairns and top end - get a 50/50 split, or is one "worth" more time than the other?

Our preferences are nature, hiking, camping, views. Cuisine and cultural events not so much, though a bit of aboriginal interpretation and rock art would be nice. Nightlife not at all.

Thanks for any help you can give us.

Your split of time between the Cairns region and Darwin/NT is reasonable enough given intent to head to Kakadu etc. but there's one huge consideration for you and that it'll be about the worst time possible weatherwise to be visiting Darwin and Kakadu etc.

It's what they call the build-up period to the wet season and will be oppressively hot and whereas some territorians get to love the wet season for the regular afternoon tropical downpours that cool the evening air [pushing humidity up], you will not likely have the cooling in November but still a very hot and humid time - locals love to hate the build-up.
Not going to be good for hikes at all, very dangerous in fact if you're not carrying a huge ammount of water/electrolyte additives - people get dehydrated/weakened/dis-orientated very quickly and people have died in such conditions.

I was in Kakadu July last year and it was warm enough then out hiking, to extent that a person much younger than myself, early twenties actually and possibly not of much hiking experience was floundering in coping - I had some electrolyte tablets handy and that fixed it up, but temperature at that time under 30 and humidity a lot lower than what you can expect in November.

The other downside is that for Kakadu you may even find that the National Park rangers have already closed some of the roads for the Twin Falls and Jim Jim gorges where you do not necessarily always need a 4WD to get in but without a 4WD rental you have restrictions placed on you by the rental company.
Kakadu road closures are usually from November to April/May dependant on extent of the wet season.

For the eastcoast, and where you want to travel to, lack of a 4WD will not restrict you too much though it means you could not go further north along the coast road from Daintree to Cooktown, though there's an inland sealed road.
There are 4WD campers but not of the shower/toilet configuration that I know of, much as you have found.

Yes, there are free camping locations about and there's a travelling guidebook that lists locations, free and otherwise - http://www.campsaustraliawide.com/ though most easily accessed ones are on or just off the main highway.

There are also a lot of national parks along the east coast, most with reasonably good access roads and where you can camp for a small fee, ~$5/h/n and good hiking opportunities - https://www.epa.qld.gov.au/parks_and_forests/

I would be skipping the Darwin region and using the time to visit more of NQ, heading down as far as the Whitsunday Islands for instance before returning to Cairns before flying to Alice Springs/Uluru where it'll also be hot enough but at least not as unbearable as camping up the top will likely be.

You might want to consider doing a camping tour from Alice Springs to Uluru to also take in Kings Canyon - the night sky stars being brilliant, www.waywardbus.com.au being a reasonable lower budget organisation that does a return trip though you can elect to stay at Uluru and you could get your Sydney flight from there which will likely stop back at Alice Springs on way to Sydney.

You'll pay a bit more from Uluru but it's a trade against the 400+ km return journey by road but if doing that make sure you get a tour that does Kings Canyon on the way out.
www.aptouring.com.au have similar trips of a more luxurious accommodation and catering standard.

<b>"...before flying to Ayers Rock for 3 nights (is that too many?"</b>

Yes, two nights (and 3 days) is sufficient. By doing this, you'll avoid a 3rd costly hotel night at Uluru.

I would be staying away from the Northern Territory altogether as it will be stinking hot. The build up is dreadful and only made bearable by the fantastic electrical storms at that time of year which usually do not bring cooling rain. Uluru is also be very hot as will Kakadu. I think I would be concentrating my time on the eastern coastal areas. You could perhaps think of renting a boat in the Whitsundays for that extra week and visiting some of the 70 or so islands around there.

" only made bearable by the fantastic electrical storms at that time of year which usually do not bring cooling rain "

High probability of no cooling rains for sure and also a great possibility there might not even be electrical storms late October/early November.
What makes the centre different is that you have a dry desert type heat which isn't as energy sapping and though when hot enough it will give a feeling of cooking your mouth, nose and lungs, it shouldn't be quite that hot by early November.

Suggest you take the advice given so far and concentrate on north Queensland. There are the tubes at Undara and the caves at Chillagoe for an outback experience and do not forget the cool Atherton Tablelands where there are lakes for swimming and lots of wildlife. Not a lot of water over the falls at that time of year though.
If you are then going to Uluru you can fly direct from Cairns but not the Whitsundays. While they are beautiful islands you will find plenty to do around Cairns, Tablelands, Daintree. You could even go up to Cooktown and Laura.

Thank you all for your helpful advice. This is the only forum where people seem to know what they're talking about when they talk about the Top End in November!

If we were to skip Kakadu and concentrate on Litchfield and Katherine Gorge along with the Darwin area attractions and the north coast, would it still be a waste of time?

It seems a crime to go to such a huge country and concentrate on one area only, though I appreciate the efforts to steer me away from a miserable experience.

If we spend part of a week in and around Darwin in November, what sites/sights would be worth doing and not unbearable?

Thanks again.
(My thanks are belated because I can't figure out how to get emailed notifications of responses to my post on this site. Is there a way?)

Darwin has a couple of museums, a nice waterfront esplanade and yacht club/marina or harbour pier for dining with great sunsets but it'll be extra muggy weather and even their outdoor Mindil Market [a huge attraction] closes down about end of October until end of April.

Litchfield you can do as a day trip but Katherine is a much longer drive.

You might want to just have two or three days in Darwin and then catch the Ghan train to Alice Springs [ but do check on www.railaustralia.com.au to see if they do the Katherine stop on way down to Alice Springs, it certainly being done on way up] and a Katherine stop for about 5 hours allows people to do a Katherine Gorge boat cruise, maybe even a helicopter flight.

Though if you still go with the Campervan idea, yep, a couple of days in Darwin [in hotel comfort] and then hit the road for Litchfield and on to Katherine and then Alice Springs will do.

If you've ever been somewhere tropical before, you'll know what to expect weatherwise but if not, you'll just have to suck it up! - actually not too bad a description for I remember my first ever tropical experience and it is like you kind of swallow air rather than breathe it in, a real throat constricting feeling.

But others suck it up and in fact there's an International Solar Car race that leaves Darwin for Adelaide in late October - hottest weather for solar power [winner averages about 100kmh] before rains come but they change drivers about hourly I believe [no airconditioning on board]

There is an aboriginal cultural centre out at Uluru and may even be something around Alice Springs too, there being a Desert Park there as well.

There is also a forum for the caravanning people, one of quite a few. Not sure if you have tried this one but may help from a roadtrip pov especially in regard to nice free camps or maybe some hidden gems camp sites, tips etc.
http://caravanersforum.com/index.php

First, we have been to Uluru twice and I would have to agree that 2 nights/3days at Uluru would certainly be enough time to sightsee at "the Rock" and at Kata Tjuta. In that time, you could see a couple of sunsets, a couple of sunrises, hike around the base of Uluru and/or hike around Kata Tjuta. We've been to Kings Canyon as well and I wouldn't suggest adding it to your itinerary. It's a good place to see, but not with your limited time frame.
I would suggest adding that extra day to your Top End visit. I've been to the Top End twice but I will say both visits were in the July/August timeframe which is the prime time to be there. I will also say that we've seen a lot of Australia and the Top End is one of my absolute favorite places. The terrain is, in a word, unique, and if you decide you can deal with the heat and humidity, I don't think you'll be disappointed. With 7 full days there, I would recommed:
Darwin (1 day)
Litchfield (1 day)
Kakadu (2 days)
Katherine (3 days)
[This gives you time to visit Katherine Gorge, Edith Falls, Cutta Cutta Cave, Mataranka and Elsey National Park]

Thanks, B, K and L. After about deciding to cross the top end off our list for this trip, it's back in contention.

Anyone else?

" The terrain is, in a word, unique, "

Anywhere different can be said to be unique I suppose, be it gorges or looking out across savannah type plains from a high vantage point.

Getting to those places [when you can, for National Park rangers do close roads leading into the wet season] and as restricted without a 4wd hire will have your options limited.

And getting anywhere near the heart of Kakadu means a couple of hundred kilometers of flat scrubby treed terrain if as longhorn puts it " and if you decide you can deal with the heat and humidity, "

If you do decide on a trip into Kakadu as well as Litchfield, you could on leaving Darwin, do Litchfield first and then backtrack to the Arnhem Highway into Kakadu and exit via Kakadu Highway via Yellow Waters and on to Pine Creek at the Stuart Highway to head south to Katherine and Alice Springs.

That will at least minimise your backtracking and when you've been outside of your airconditioned vehicle long enough at any stop [with a huge bottle of nice cold water, broad brim hat with flymesh hanging off it] to be making a rush back for it, you can continue on your way.

There's sufficient accommodation options on way into/within Kakadu and on way down to Alice Springs that you could also use a car and rooms/cabins and book places that had airconditioning for evening/sleep comfort greater than you'll get in a campervan.

But if sticking with the campervan concept, check out http://www.standbyrelocations.com/ for a possible cheap deal between Darwin and Alice Springs - if earliest pick up and latest arrival times allow, you can take extra days at a discounted rate.
And if nothing appears to be available a week out, you'll still have time to get a standard campervan or car hire.

How much time are you going to spend in Sydney? Have you considered going south (Melbourne, Adelaide, Kangaroo Island, or Tasmania)?

Well it appears we probably should have considered going south based on weather. But we planned our flights based on what sounded interesting about Australia to us, and are now locked into flying into Cairns and home from Sydney. We aren't really city people and don't need days and days to experience Sydney. We thought 2 full days would be plenty.

Even if you fly into Cairns and out of Sydney, you could still go south if you don't go to Darwin and/or the red center. What are you planning to do/see in Sydney? I highly recommend the botanic gardens, zoo, and aquarium.

I guess it isn't too late to reconsider our itinerary and substitute something to the south instead of Darwin and area, but I still "have to" see the Red Center as part of my first Australian trip. Don't I? ;-)

That said, I know nothing about the South, having invested all my itinerary research so far on north Queensland and the top end. Can anyone suggest favorite places that would make a good 1-week southern substitute for the Top End tour in November, considering the type of travellers we are (see OP)?

Thanks.

I don't think you "have to" see the Red Center. Before we went, it seemed to us that Uluru is just a big rock, but so many seemed entranced by it that we decided we shouldn't miss it. And our reaction was that it was just a big rock. Neither I nor my husband were captivated by it as others seem to be. It doesn't even live up to the photos, which probably are enhanced. We were disappointed that there seemed to be very little aborigal presence in the area, and everything is expensive. On the other had, we did very much enjoy Alice Springs. If you want some aboriginal experiences, Djapukai and the aboriginal-led tour at Mossman Gorge, both in the Cairns/Daintree area, are good. We also enjoyed morning and evening boat trips for bird- and animal-watching., on the Daintree River.

If you enjoy the outdoors, you would probably like Tasmania. And if you're interested in the Australian convict history, you'll be fascinated by Port Arthur. It was one of the highlights of our first trip to Australia. Surprising to us, it's in a gorgeous setting. And the tours are very well organized. If you do choose to go there, I highly recommend that you read "The Fatal Shore." I "read" it by listening to the book-on-tape version.

Uluru can to some extent seem to be just a big red rock and there are those who'll be more captivated by the nearby Olgas [Tat.....] as far as rock formations go.
And certainly Alice Springs has it's interesting areas with a Desert park and gorges thatcan be done on a days drive.

But it can also be disappointing if you have your heart set on seeing The Rock as it has always been affectionately known in Australia and you do not get there and then first question you get asked when back home is "and that big big red rock - what about that!"

There's always some great postcards of it about and when I first saw it, what was more mesmerising was the approach for I was flying a light aircraft and surrounding centre is so flat you can easily sight it on the horizon from about 100 miles away, and so it kind of grew on me, a bit like it probably did for aborigines wandering about the centre.

I hadn't mentioned it previously because you had enough to decide on but if you do decide to give Darwin/top end a miss or cut it back and train via Katherine to Alice, you could always do a light aircraft one day flight - probably not work out too much more expensive than a long drive/tour and then with extra days available, that wayward mob do a tour between Alice Springs and Adelaide taking in Coober Pedy and the Flinders Ranges.

Alternately, get yourself down to Adelaide and hire a 4WD Campervan for 4-5 days and drive via Baroosa Valley and Clare Valley wine country up to http://www.wilpenapound.com.au/ and on to http://www.igawarta.com/exper.html

If you had 7-8 days you might even be able to plan a big U-tour on way back to head for Broken Hill and down Silver City Highway to Wentworth and Mildura and then follopw the Murray down to Echuca before making tracks for Melbourne to fly back to Sydney.

Lots of interesting country with history and more can be posted if you get interested that way.

judilie,
Sorry your experience of Uluru was a disappointment for you. To me it is a great symbol for this country. I found the gorges cathedral like in their atmosphere. Admittedly back then there was more access to some of the important areas where one was aware of Aboriginal presence.

Back to its symbolism:- a huge, basically inert rock lying in a fragile, ancient landscape where one can read the past decade of seasons in the state of the vegetation, where crass boldness and great subtlety vie for your attention if one takes the time to become familiar is an archetype for this country.

Thanks for keeping this discussion going. I am eating up all the information and trying to formulate a new plan.