JUST SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT THOSE THINKING ABOUT COMING TO AUSTRALIA
 

I have just returned home after a trip via USA to South America and a cruise of 3 weeks to Antarctica. As this is not the forum for Antarctica I will not go into that side of things suffice it to say that that place is the ultimate destination and is mind blowing in its diversity and beauty. I spoke to a lot of people on the cruise who had been to Australia and gained a lot of ideas from them which I think would help people if I passed them on.
Firstly I left Australia on one of Jetstar's first flights to Honolulu and because it is a budget airline I was somewhat apprehensive about what to expect in terms of quality in comparison to normal aircraft services. May I congratulate Jetstar on the wonderful service, great food and friendly staff on that trip. Anyone contemplating what could be a great variation and easy trip to Australia have no fear that this is the way to go and come from the USA. If you are after a cheap flight then getting on Priceline or Expedia in the US for a return airfare from Hawaii to your home base in the USA then getting a return flight from Honolulu - Australia can make the price very attractive particularly if Jetstar are having a sale. Also the flight times make it an easier journey for those with the time and the wish for a stopover.
One of the pointers that I picked up from people on the cruise and something that needs to be said is that you cannot "do" Australia in 2 weeks. You are doing yourself a diservice by rushing around the country and trying to fit all sorts of things in. Look at the country as several diverse regions and concentrate on one or two and enjoy a much better holiday. A number of people have said that NZ is great because it is small and you can get around easily, that is most certainly true but again this is exactly how Australia should be viewed, pick a region and see how easy it is to get around and enjoy the number of things to do in that one area.
The other point that was made too was a misconception that a lot of people have in that the only reason to go to the GBR is to scuba dive or snorkle. I see a number of people who write saying that are not going to the GBR because they are not into diving. Sure there is diving on the GBR but that is only one of many, many enjoyable activities and things to see around that wonderful area of the World.
The cruise around the Antarctic peninsular was beautiful but a cruise is not the way to see Australia and NZ in my opinion. A one day stop in a city with a side trip does nothing to give a person a feel of a place. Of all the countries in the World Australia and NZ must be the two easiest to get around both in terms of getting accommodation, tours, public transport and everything else concerned with travel.
Anyway those are just some thoughts.
Happy travels!

Wow - that sounds like a great trip, Liz.

Fascinating that you are apprehensive about budget airlines. Where hace you been all these years?

As for visiting Australia and NZ on a cruise ship for a day or two - well I just saw the QE2 leave Sydney Harbour, and I did wonder what the folk on board had had time to see.

But each to his own.

What are you trying to say with the comment about learning something from fellow pax about 2 weeks not being enough to see Australia?

You are Australian, aren't you? Isn't that evident from the size of the country? But maybe you think posters will HEAR IT FINALLY if it comes (even though by hearsay) from fellow Americans.

Yeh, that's probably it.

Frankly, every time I see a post about visting here and there that displays a total ignorance about the country - I ask myself - hey - don't these people have access to a map? Maybe they didn't learn about scale in school? Actually maybe they didn't learn much about the world outside the USA at all.

OK - rant over.

But it has some validity don't you think? And it will be fascinating (frightening) to see who they come up with as a replacement for Dubya.

What I am trying to say Fuzzy is that there are fantastic things to do in each region of Australia without flying thousands of miles to the next area & trying to see a bit of everything which ends up in people not seeing much of anything at all really. How many times do you see people say they are going to the GBR for 3 days before flying off to Ayers Rock for 2 days. Sure they will "see" them but it is a bit like me flying to the USA and going to N.Y for 2 nights, then flying to Miami for 1 night, flying to see the Grand Canyon for 1 day and then off to San Francisco for 2 nights. For what its worth the GBR region around Cairns is really worth about 10 days in itself giving people time to see the hinterland and the other wonderful spots within a 150 mile radius. From there alone you can get a feel of the outback by visiting the lava tubes or the Savanna region by taking a little train ride. The Whitsunday/Mackay area is another region which deserves more than a week. Around South East Queensland there is another 10 days worth of scenic delights at least.
Sydney and surrounds should take a good 7 - 10 days and so on and so forth. The reason most of us write on this forum is so that we hope to help people get the very most from their holiday and in any area of Australia we collectively can suggest areas to see and things to do that would give anyone a fantastic trip with a variety of things to see and do.
One other misconception I think is that Kangaroo Island is the only place in Australia to see animals en mass, sure if you have 6 or 8 weeks in which get around to getting there as it is a bit out of the way and an expensive side trip, but not with most short times frames. Tasmania has a wealth of wild life including fur seals and penguins, the GBR region has more wild life in a small area than anywhere else in Australia with the exception perhaps of Darwin/Kakadu and some of the wild life around the GBR is unique to that area of the World and very rare i.e. white lemuroid (sp/?) possums, Cus Cus ( again sp?? and they are perhaps further north in the Cape) and tree kangaroos, to mention only three.
A cruise ship is a place where you meet a lot of travellers who have usually been to a lot of places and when you meet them it is always "where are you from" and "Oh yes, I have been there" so in effect it is a great place to get feed-back from other travellers/tourists who have been to your country and usually have something to say about where they went and what they did and also what they might have done if they had had more information.
I have done 5 cruises and there are pros and cons to them or should I say that they are excellant for some areas but not for others. I would imagine that the people on the Queen Mary really couldn't care where they were, it was just the experience of being on the Queen Mary perhaps.
Finally, I am not apprehensive about budget airlines per se Fuzzy but with some airlines in the budget field a 9 hour flight would be "hell" without food, drink and a comfortable seat. I can think of a few budget airlines that are unbearable after about 1 hours flying. The only odd thing with Jetstar to Honolulu was that they woke us up at 3AM - which was about 3 hours before landing - with hot meat pies. The pies were very nice but the timing was a bit strange and it certainly is a first for me to eat a meat pie if it was meant for breakfast!

Welcome back Liz; I figured you were off exploring someplace unique and exotic. Sounds like you had a lovely trip and I would love to hear more.

I wholeheartedly agree with the concept of exploring Australia (or anywhere) by region, and that's what we try to do these days.

I have to admit that our first trips to Europe and Australia were of the "it's Tuesday, it must be Belguim" variety, but we were young and stupid and fortunately we learned from our mistakes. These days, we're slow travelers, due in part to experience, travel savvy, our desire to thoroughly explore each area we visit by allowing sufficient time, and yes, our age.

Sadly, most Americans only get two weeks of vacation each year, so I completely understand why many try to "do it all" in one fell swoop. I can only hope that these rushed travelers see the error of their ways after they've visited your wonderful country. With luck, many of them will return for a second and third helping and will takes things a bit slower.

Glad to hear Jetstar is a good airline for long haul flights. We've flown them for short jaunts and had good experiences, but never considered them for longer flights.

I have counselled many of my friends to do some homework. The thing I hate is "I'm going to Australia for two weeks, what should I see?"
My first response is to tell them to get a map and a Fodors guidebook and figure it out. I might also ask if you had a friend coming to US for two weeks, and had never been here, what would you advise him to see.
Many travelers, not just Americans, have totally unrealistic expectations of their trips, and are doomed to disappointment and frustration because they didn't do any homework.
So, don't ask me what you should see if you haven't even read a book or looked at a map. I can't help you.
Sorry, I'm actually a very nice person.

folks let me put my 2cents in as a former American visitor to Australia

We had about 5 weeks
Sydney(w/ side to Blue Mts and Scotland Is)
Tasmania
Whitsundays (live aboard)
Cairns/Cape Trib, the Tablelands and reef
Kakadu
Alice Kings Canyon and Uluru

There was no place we visited where we wished we didn't have an extra day ( perhapo excepting the Tully River crossing and the Bat Research Station lodging in Cape Trib)

so if we had spent that extra day we felt we needed we would have been down under for 10 weeks!

Think of everything we missed:

The ACT ( we had to beg Neil to visit us)
The entire western part of the continent
The entire Southern part of the continent
and tonnes of place in the interior

When friends asked if we were going to visit NZ on that trip I said well if we had at least another 3 weeks!

I realize 5 weeks is a luxury not everyone can afford. And I'm not talking $$ but time as we travelled relatively reasonably and mooched some off of friends.

but different stokes for different folks I guessI'm just not a "if it's Tuesday this must be Belgium" kind of guy

cheers

AndrewDavid

LizF,

Melnq and Bill have hit the nail right on the head with their comments.

Yes, you CAN do Australia in 2 weeks. I arrange itineraries for a 2 week period all the time. Can you see everything, experience all there is? Well, no of course not.

As both of them have pointed out, we Americans just don't get enough vacation time as the rest of the world (damnit). We're jealous and bitter about that. Okay, maybe that's just me. :)

But it's a fact of life, and the reality is if you have two weeks to visit and the only other option is not to visit at all, what would you do?

So Americans try to cram as much in to it as possible "we're going all the way, and it's such a long flight, so we want to see everything" is a comment I hear all too often.

Wayyy back when, this was the number one obstacle of getting people to GO to Australia! The flight time. Nevermind the fact that some of these same people travel to Europe (and in my case from the West Coast of the U.S.), so they're changing planes SOMEWHERE. BAH! Add it all up and it comes out the same, and I'd rather go to Oz in a straight shot than spend my time in an airport lounge in the US or London!

You probably don't even see the packages promoted by the Australian Tourism Board but they are designed for 2 week travel with components of different cities tied in and an attractive rate - this is what has stimulated the influx of visitors to Oz over the years.

When Americans see a rate of $1699 for roundtrip airfare, domestic flights and hotel accommodations in a few cities, THAT'S what stimulates them to go! They think "well, maybe I CAN visit Australia! It's a long way, but that's a great price!"

And hopefully, there will be a return trip. What I hear from clients is "chances are we'll never be back there again, and so we want to see everything". Happy to report, that's not the case in many circumstances, and they DO go back again - but you have to get them there in the first place!

Bill, yes I can tell you're a very nice person, and I feel your pain.

I deal with "geographically challenged" people every day. I hear comments like "we thought we'd just take the day and drive from Sydney to Cairns". Apparently, no, they have no map and haven't done their homework. On the other hand, this provides me with employment, so I can only smile and educate! :)

Btw, it's even worse in New Zealand, where they think it's only 100 miles and don't realize it will take 3 hours due to road constraints, travel time, etc.

Regards,

Melodie
Certified Aussie Specialist

Liz - Your second post was even better than the first. Brilliant.

Agree totally - and you don't even mention WA or the NT.

Sorry - wizmatilda - but you cannot DO Australia in two weeks. For your sake I am glad that there are enough Americans who think they can to keep you emploued.

But the question I have tried to get answered again and again is why Americans only have 2 weeks holiday. Aren't you the most powerful economy on earth (but don't mention the debt)?

What I cannot understand is why there isn't an overwhelming push to bring the country into line with no-power places like Australia, NZ, the UE, etc.

And why don't your school leavers go walkabout?

What is the cultural difference that makes young folk from Aus and NZ, and Europe, and Japan, and Canada, and S Korea, etc pack a bag and go explore the planet - while young Americans don't?

And do you think they should?

fuzzy -

"why Americans only have 2 weeks holiday" -

Wish I knew. I didn't even realize two weeks wasn't the norm until I left the US. Thought it really odd that a Scottish gal I met years ago got a month's paid leave right off the bat, whereas I had to work a full year before I got my meager two weeks. I earned three weeks paid leave after five years and had to work ten to get the fourth.

Also found it odd that she fully expected a "merit" increase every year, regardless of her work product, whereas I had to excel above my co-workers to even be considered. That's what "merit" means, right?

Americans also seem to have fewer holidays than other countries. Five day Easter weekend?? Are you kidding? Most companies don't consider Good Friday a holiday, let alone Monday and Tuesday. Someone probably figured it was politically incorrect. At this rate, it's just a matter of time before they take away Christmas.

Who the heck knows?

IMO, the US is waaay behind the rest of the world when it comes to vacation time and holidays, but it took leaving the US for me to realize that.

As for school leavers going walkabout -I think many parents think if the kids take a year off, they'll never return to school.

Please lets not turn this into the viscious political rants like on the Europe board. But here's a couple of things to consider.
In the US, the banks, federal reserve system, etc., can not be closed for more than 3 days in a row. Comes from the depression years. So that's why you see the Friday after Thanksgiving with everything open, and only three day weekends.
As to the two weeks thing, many have more than that, but want to spread it out over the year.
An observation: Many countries in Europe, i.e., Ger and France, have tried repeatedly to "reform" their labor policy. Reducing vacation time, increasing hours per week, etc. Why? because of productivity issues. Seems such countries would like to see more productivity from workers. Some countries have a surcharge tax on a second job.
In the US, the culture is to work, work, work. For better or worse, that's the culture. Some of the more liberal work rule countries from time to time try to "reform" more toward the US model, whilst in the US there is constant pressure to move toward the more liberal work rule and social model.
What is best? Not for me to decide. It is what it is for each of us. Then we deal with it.
Melodie: I understand. I can't tell you how many times I will be talking to an unhappy traveller and get around to asking him "why are you here?" He will say weakly, "well my travel agent set it up." I'll say something like "didn't you do any homework and decide if you wanted to see this or not?" The answer is usually no, and I tell them not to blame the TA. (I hope this doesn't start a "to TA or not" rant/arguement.)

Hey Bill -

No political rants here. In fact, I'd like to change the subject entirely and ask if it was you who stayed at/planned to stay at Harris Hill Cottages in Nelson, NZ. If so, how was it?

How's that for a short attention span?

We were in Australia for four weeks in October-November 2006. DH's fifth trip (he worked there from time to time in the 1980s) and my first. Our itinerary:

Melbourne
Tasmania
Sydney
Great Barrier Reef

We felt as if we only tasted the wonders Australia has to offer. We're considering a house exchange for at least three months in the future, possibly in the suburbs of Sydney.

Two weeks holiday is the standard in the US for all sorts of reasons, and really until the stock booms of the early 90s, I don't think 'regular' Americans put much of a foot into Europe, let alone anywhere else. Despite running around right after college with Frommer's $50 per day books, most of us stayed home and did road trips. Most American vacations still involve the family car. Taking kids to Disneyland, let alone DisneyWorld was a huge deal growing up. Since we now seem to be more affluent, people are traveling - running around Ireland to discover their roots, crawling over Tuscany, and whatever else is the next big thing. Fortunately only a relative few have discovered Australia, (and I am still absolutely stunned at the number who will actually foot an air fare bill for 2+ children)but yes, it's far and it's expensive, and while we perhaps have not done the depth of research you require, we are happy to drop some of the great riches from our powerful economony into yours. I daresay if the people who could only come for 2 weeks did not come at all, you would notice. We keep Melanie employed and we bolster your tourism industry. And this for fuzzy, who never can resist taking a shot at Americans for something: perhaps as we "frighteningly" search for the next fool to replace GWB, we will succeed in finding someone actually interested in strengthening our dollar, which will then make Australia an even better bargain in the future.

At the risk of starting a rant in a different direction, I think one of the reasons high school graduates don't travel outside the US is the abysmal knowledge of geography in our country. I taught grades 1-3 in a Montessori school and it was all about geography and other cultures, but that is not the norm. A friend teaches high school French in a small town not far from Seattle and the kids there are so insular, even the French students who have at least an interest in another country. She takes them to Europe (brave woman) and tries to instill a love of other countries in them, but it is hard. I heard a sad fact on the radio yesterday--only one fourth of Americans have a passport (this is because we are needing them now to go to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean.) As a side note, one reason so many EU kids can go around the world is that they can find work in other EU countries if they find themselves needing an infusion of travel cash. This is not possible to US citizens, I don't believe, at least not legally. We met a lot of young Aussies and Kiwis in Turkey and Jordan who were "walkabout" for a few years and augmented their travels with a working jaunt to England before going off somewhere else.
Sally in Seattle

Crickey! Firstly: I have justed looked at this heading and it seems that although I thought I didn't have any ill effects from jetlag my cognition did. It should have read "just some thoughts for those thinking of coming to Australia".
Secondly: this was never meant to be a "rant" or a "we have more holidays than you" post because I know only too well what the situation with holiday time is in North America having lived there for two years and worked there as well.
Melodie as a travel agent is in a great position to advise her clients that perhaps the 2 week "rush all over Australia" trip is not the best they can get. If it is our tourism people who put those together I have no doubt that they are like all tourism desk sitter people behind the scenes who know little about the facts of the situation other than on paper. If they are anything like the Tasmania Tourism people then enough said!!!!!!!!!!!
My point again was that if you wanted to make some changes, the cost of the airfare return to Honolulu would be roughly $ 950 Australian ( about $720US ) and with some work on your computer you probably could pick up a return airfare Lax to Hon or SF to Hon for about $350US. So, so far we are looking at an airfare

Ooooooooopps: I will go back on step here as I pressed the wrong button and published half of the post. As I had to restart I have just checked a two week holiday to Australia via Honolulu during March/April.
We have established that you could probably get a price around $720 US Hon - Sydney or Melbourne. I checked a price with Priceline which is out of the US from Los Angeles to Honolulu return and came up with $198.75 US and yes I put in a "name your own price". There now is a price of under $1,000 return to Australia from Los Angeles which leaves a hell of a lot over to say do Sydney and get a cheap flight to Gold Coast for South East Queensland are and another to Cairns for that area. In fact I would say that you could get away with $1,400US for three areas and a return flight. Now I think that is worth talking about.
On the subject of kids jetting around the World in a gap year before going to University, I for one as a mother would not have been party to that as I would myself not feel too keen in settling down to study again after fluttering my wings. But things are different nowadays.
Also on the subject of home travel versus overseas travel - the number of people in Australia who have not been to Tasmania but have say been to Bali or NZ or New Caledonia, Europe etc is amazing to me but I actually am one of the guilty ones as I had been to NZ three times before I set foot in Tasmania but I am trying to rectify this for other people now.
Oliverandharry you cracked me up with your "frightenly search for a replacement for GWB" frankly I have never seen anything wrong with Bart Simpson as a replacement :0)
Finally, Betsy: I know I have been away for a while but for the life of me I cannot find your trip report and I do so want to read it. I think your idea of a house swap is a great one and I think that is what I would / will do next time too.
If anyone is interested and needs more information about getting cheaper flights such as those I quoted above then I will be most happy to help in any way. These would apply to Australians going to the US as well as the other way around.

To Melnq8: No, that was not me re: Harris Hill Cottages, Nelson. We didn't get up there. Has to be for another trip.
Thanks for losing interest. I'm sorry I contributed to the tenor of this. I usually make a point to keep quiet on stuff like this. I will renew my efforts to bite my tongue, er, typing fingers.

LizF, you may well get your wish. So far the candidates on either side of the political aisle don't hold a candle to Bart Simpson. And, with more than 18 months yet to go, everyone is already behaving very, very badly. I plan a write-in vote for any one of the Dixie Chicks.
Betsy has yet to write a trip report. She got a lot of help here, particularly about Tasmania, and I, too, would like to here about her experiences.

Thanks Bill.

US leave entitlements I think have something to do with the fact that in general unions haven't exercised as much political muscle as they have in Western Europe, Australia and NZ, especially through affiliation with labor/social democratic parties. I know that the US labor movement provides support to the Democratic Party, but the links are at best informal. I also know that unions have been strong in some industries, e.g. the auto workers, but their strength has usually been translated into better workplace pay and conditions rather than more leisure time, especially legislated minima. (If I'm oversimplifying I'll trust someone to correct me.)

Australians certainly weren't granted 4 weeks' leave through the kind-heartedness of employers. Or mnaybe American workers are just firmer believers in the benefits of capitalism and feel obliged to help out their struggling bosses :)

Accordidng to some figures I saw in the NY Times, over the last 20 years or so American workers have been short-changed across the board. Despite strong economic growth, US workers' real incomes have moved very little while company profits, hence investor wealth, have soared.

More to the point - if people want to see a lot in a short time in Australia it's their decision. Melodie and other people in the industry can offer advice, but it's their vacation and their money.