I will be banned for this

Dec 2nd, 2005, 06:59 AM
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 394
I will be banned for this

I feel bad, we are all talking about happy days travelling at the same time a young man of 22 was held responsible for all that bothers this world. Are we not old enough and ugly enough to fix these problems without killing a mere youth for our neglect of our most vunerable.?

Sorry if this takes you out of your comfort zone but he was taken out of his. Literally

I am so sick over this I can't sleep. I can't stop crying.

Never thought I would shed a tear for a drug courier.

Sad day for Nyugen and a sad day for Singapore.

But a sadder day for us, we have to stop the problem ourselves, not leave it to out children or foreign governments to fix.
Tassietwister is offline  
Dec 2nd, 2005, 11:28 AM
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 235
Perhaps you may like to reflect on how many young Australian lives would have been destroyed if he has succeeded in bringing those drugs into Australia.

I doubt the parents of drug addicted children will be doing much hand wringing over this young criminals demise. He wasn't "held responsible for all that bothers this world". He was held responsible for his own misguided actions, which he entered into in full knowledge of the risks, both to himself, and to his unfortunate victems.

Good riddance!!
vbca is offline  
Dec 2nd, 2005, 12:12 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,603
Another point to ponder on. Ask yourselves why Singapore has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Answer, they carry out penalities and not slaps on the wrist or threats on criminals.
I am happy with the thought that at least the younger ones in my family will not get hooked on that articular herion because of this person's actions.
If you have ever cared for or treated an addict, if you have ever had an addict in your family or if you just ask yourself what added damage that drugs do to people's lives i.e. 85% of all crime is drug related, then you have to ask yourself just how hard we should come down on people who deal in the stuff.
Alternatively if they took away the criminal aspect of drugs and the money value of them perhaps there would be no drug carriers, pushers and the reason for the crime surrounding the drug trade, how many people do you see smuggling apples?.
There is absolutely no reason anyone going to any country in Asia should be in any doubt about what will happen to you for carrying drugs in those countries.
I am sorry Tassietwister but I have had to sit with mothers who have lost their children to drugs that someone pushed onto them. I have had take phone calls from parents who are beside themselves because of what their children are doing. Please do not think that those parents were any less upset that their kids were dying - they were dying because of people like Nyugen. Please direct your tears for those children who have been caught in the drug world, direct your tears to their parents and siblings because they are the ones who are innocent not the Van Nyugen's of this world.

lizF is offline  
Dec 2nd, 2005, 12:39 PM
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 235
Right On, LizF. I would have thought that by now governments around the world would have taken on board the lesson from the prohibition years in the US, which gave rise to the Mafia.

The answer? Make drugs available on prescription for confirmed addicts. Hammer the dealers and pushers unmercifully, and put the money saved into prevention.

New Zealand has managed to change peoples attitude to drink driving with adds on TV etc. Now, far fewer young people will drink before driving. I never thought it could happen, and i am agreeably surprised.
vbca is offline  
Dec 2nd, 2005, 12:42 PM
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Actually LizF, with the Australian governemts hard line on importing NZ apples, you may well see a few plump, juicy, apples being smuggled into OZ.

vbca is offline  
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:40 PM
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I guess we should look for Nzers arriving with larger than life breasts should we vbca?
The strange irony of all this was that Singapore was originally bought with Opium by Stamford Raffles. If any country could attest to the effects of herion then Singapore could.
lizF is offline  
Dec 2nd, 2005, 01:44 PM
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I agree in everything except mandatory death penalty. I am not totally against other countries having the death penalty. I am against MANDATORY death penalty.

It is outright murder.

Why should anyone be denied a fair trial? To me drug couriers are less criminal than dictatorships that have state sanctioned murder. And Singapore is a dictarship that does not value innocence or degrees thereof in it's courts.

So you have your pet hate and want kids strung up by the neck in a country where they had no intent to cause any form of harm whatsoever and I have mine in that mandatory sentencing is totally barbaric.

A decision to hang someone should be arrived at with a judge having some input into the final outcome. It is not good enough to wonder if the judge agreed with the decison or not. I want to know. I want to know that every possible avenue of defence has been offered to to arrive at a fair decision.

To deny that basic human right is a far worse crime in any language. Especially when given heroin use is normally taken up by adults, not children. Adults with a choice. They should not be treated as victims. Victim mentality is often the reason they start using to start with.

Tassietwister is offline  
Dec 2nd, 2005, 02:43 PM
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 235

You have valid points, and I haven't been following the case closely, so I'm not sure what discretion the judge had. I was always under the impression that the Singapore courts were non partisan, and that you could be sure of a fair trial if you were unfortunate enough to come before them.

Most countries have mandatory penalties for some crimes, so I don't think you can single out Singapore for this. The fact that the penalty is death is a bit sobering, but this is almost universal throughout SE Asia.

THis young man was not a child. He was 24 years old, and assumedly of average intellegence. Almost everyone is aware of the penalty for drug trafficking in SE Asia? So why did he choose to do it? And why did he take a flight through Singapore? Obviously he thought he could get away with it. Unfortunately for him, he was wrong.

I bet other potential drug traffickers will be having second thoughts.

THis is a divisive issue, and there is probably no middle ground. I guess we just have to agree to differ, but I do respect your views, and I defend your right to hold them.
vbca is offline  
Dec 2nd, 2005, 05:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 394

No the judge has no discretion hence why is it called mandatory and also why our government and lawyers have been trying to convince Singapore to recognise the jurisdiction of international law, which of course they refuse. I believe they only signed the convention and never ratified so can't force them to abide by laws themselves.

I read on an Singapore forum that a chief judge has declared publicly that he did not agree with the death penalty in one case but had no option, it isn't his role to.

See it this way. Liz believed very strongly in the innocence of Scappelle Corby however under Singaporean law she would have also been executed. We would never have seen her, never have heard her side of the story, never had access to anymore information than that she was caught with a quantity of drugs that the state has declared is punishable by death by hanging. Any baggage handling stories would have been dismissed as drug couriers always making up excuses etc etc.

They dehumanise the proceeedings and when the state runs the newspapers then you are only going to get one side of the story.

Liz is a great example in that she didn't agree on one case and agrees on another. You either agree with a law or you don't.When you start saying but not in this case but yes in that case then you are against mandatory sentencing.

And no laws are not similar throughtout Asia. In Malaysia he would have escaped the death penalty because he was in transit and not committing a crime against the people. In Indonesia we still don't know what the Bali 9 will get. they will have their day in court. With Van Nyugen the sentence was handed down when he got arrested. I have heard a number of stories now from people inside the prison all saying if anyone on death row should have got off Nyugen should have.

I would have preferred he was given a chance to prove that in a court of law.

Tassietwister is offline  

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