easytraveler, the Australian prime minister, Kevin Rudd, speaks fluent Mandarin, but it wasn't always so. On his first posting to Beijing as a junior diplomat he was called on to make a speech to a Chinese delegation expressing the hope that China and Australia would build even closer ties. Unfortunately, instead his stunned audience heard him express the sentiment that the two countries would continue to experience simultaneous orgasms.

Hi, Neil: LOL! That's really funny! :)

Mango7: I understand what you are saying. If someone were not to speak perfect English, one should be more tolerate of mispronunciations.

However, the problem with tones is that a shift in tone can change completely the meaning of what one is saying.

You don't want a young man going out on a date and saying to her:"You're great!" but it comes out "You're a crate!" The latter would not go over too well.

Or a person walking along sees a cat and says "That's a beautiful bat!"

Since English doesn't have tones, it's hard to convey what changing a tone does. It's the same as changing a consonant or a vowel in English. The meaning changes with a change in tone.

That's what the OP was trying convey - tones have to learnt by hearing them, so please let's not get abusive when posters are trying to help.

And if Mandarin is ugly with 4 tones, you should try Thai with at least 6 tones in standard Thai! I seem to remember there a dialect with 13 tones-WAHHH! I'll never be able to learn that language, for sure!

At risk of going way off topic, I was once trying to tell my french girlfriend at a football game that it was second down and ten yards to go. I used the word "vierges" for yards which is close but no cigar so to speak. She said ..."ten virgins to go?"

I have little interest in the Chinese culture, Shanghai.

Neil
HYSTERICAL!!

Since we are back to our lighter mood, here's another one. A Ching dynasty envoy on a friendly mission was being wined and dined in Paris. He looked quizzically at the finger bowl and turned to the french interpreter, who mubbled something in chinese. To the horror of his hosts, the envoy picked up the bowl and drank it.

He was Li Hongzhang.

I meant from the bowl.

My rule is try to lean some basic words of the language wherever you go. I do not speak Chinese, I speak a few words of Chinese badly (I am a great mimic though) and use hand signals and somehow I always manage to communicate, have a pleasant exchange and get what I need and usualy have a laugh or smile with whom I am communicating. Its all about communication and trying to engage. I do laugh when people don't try to really get the way to say things and just use an english style pronunciation for it...no one can understand them!

Siobhan:

I'm with you. Not a great percentage of people outside of Asia can speak Mandarin, as say, French or Spanish. I am not going to let that stop me from "communicating" in mispronounced Mandarin, hand signals, fingers (for counting & pointing) and a big smile. So many of our niceties are exchanged with body language.

Actually watch the hand signals for numbers...shanghainese can vouch for this there are certain hand signals for certain numbers. 8 is like making a pointed gun with your hand...I thought everyone hated us in Shanghai when we went to the shops and did this in the early 1990's...realised they were saying 8! I would also suggest getting a cd or web podcast as it can be embarassing if you try to say one thing and end up insulting someone by saying F**K or worse by mispronouncing a tone...(I do not know what the that word is in Chinese anyway!)

The hand signal for the number 8 is like pointing a gun with your hand and turning your arm inwards so the thumb faces downwards.