Will I need a JR pass?
 

Finally starting to piece together my itinerary for our November trip to Japan. One of the things that I am finding confusing is the Japan railway ( names especially) but also whether I should buy a JR pass, would one of you be able to advise?
We will go from Tokyo to Hakone ( then use the train to do the "loop" before settling in our Ryokan. The next day go by train to Kyoto then a few days later go to Osaka. I am unsure if we shoul stake the train from Osaka to the Airport??

So, looking at the above itinerary do you think it would be wise to buy a JR pass? ( not sure if this makes a difference we will be in Japan for 9 days.)

The next problem I have is what stations to use ( but I will leave that for another day) oh and of course I would like to use the bullet train where possible!

:)

Arghh I hate this keypad..that should say "unsure if we should take the train from Osaka to the airport."

HI has it all down pat.. he will answer I am sure..

we are having the 7 day 1st class pass using it for T to hakone (I think) then to kanzawa, then to Hiroshima and finally to Kyoto. our trip is 14 days in all so we don't activate it until we are in toyko and don't need it in Kyoto.

we will limo, I think, to airport from Kyoto.

Why Osaka with just 9 days? - it's a short train ride from Kyoto. MK taxi from Kyoto to airport. We are not using JR pass at all. As Bob says, HT is your man, though...

I have been trying to get into Hakone Ginyu for years now and am totally jealous.

No you do not need a JR Pass for your itinerary. Tokyo to Odawara you would be better off using the Odakyu trains and buying the Hakone Free Pass with the train(Romance) from Shinjuku station(I think you are staying at the Park Hyatt in Shinjuku right). Don't know how many days you are in Hakone but the two or three day version of the pass would work out for you.

http://www.odakyu.jp/english/romancecar/

From Hakone you would catch the shinkansen from Odawara to Kyoto station buying tickets at Odawara station or Shinjuku station if you like. The ride to Osaka from Kyoto can also be purchased just ahead of you leaving Kyoto station on the day of your departure. Depending on where your Osaka hotel is you can take a JR train or Kintetsu, Keihan or Hankyu lines(sounds complicated but really not and only a short 30-40 minute ride either way).

Although Osaka gets no love on here on the Fodor's site it is on of my favorite cities in Japan and a foodies/shoppers heaven. Depending again on which hotel you stay in there is either the limo bus, MK Taxi service or rail lines that will take you to KIX from Osaka....again real easy.
Hope this helps!

If you ask specific questions and I can give you specific answers to help lessen the confusion factor ;)

Aloha!

Forgot to add the ride from Odawara to Kyoto ¥11750 via Hikari shinkansen (no nozomi stops in Odawara). The ride from Kyoto to Osaka is as little as ¥540 on the JR rapid service trains(30 minutes) up to ¥2750 on the shinkansen (14 minutes)
The 7-day JR regular pass would set you back ¥28300

Most of your options for getting from Odawara to Kyoto involve a change of trains (at Nagoya or Shin-Yokohama or other).

But there are six Hikari shinkansen trains per day that will get you there without a change of trains.

Here is the timetable: http://tinyurl.com/lm4nge4

If none of those Hikari work for you then changing trains is not a big deal. Kodama trains make too many stops - it would be better to make a change of trains on Hikari shinkansen that to take the Kodama on the timetable.

This is our itinerary
3 nights Tokyo ( only 2 days really as we don't arrive till around 5 pm) Park Hyatt
1 night Hakone - Ryokan Ginyu
3 nights Kyoto - Hyatt
1 night Osaka ( probably St Regis but open to suggestions) this will also be 2 days as we do not leave KIX till around 23:00

I chose Osaka to visit as I thought it would be easier for the airport and thought it would be nice place to visit. ( HT - food and shoppers paradise is right up our street :) )

So would I be better staying an extra night at the Hyatt Kyoto ( assuming I can get an extra night)and maybe doing a day trip to Osaka ? We could then go to KIX from Kyoto ( how long would it be to the airport from there?

HT I got the last room at Hakone Ginyu - I booked back in Feb!!!! It was only after comments made on this board that November is busy that galvanised me into action, I kind of panic booked nearly all the hotels ( all cancelable) D is unsure about the Ryokan stay but I have insisted it stays in the itinerary. ( we then head off to Thailand for ( hopefully) some sunshine for a week!)

Thanks everyone for the advice, as for buying the train tickets, I assume I could get my hotel to do this? And would I need to pre book any of these?

FW - are you out there ? I hope you are getting all this, you know it blows my mind! :)

I think maybe in hindsight I should have opted for 4 nights in Tokyo ( which I could still do) but then I would lose my booking at the Ryokan and I don't fancy my chances of swapping it now at this late stage!

I think you have a nice balance. 4 nights in Tokyo would mean reducing your time in Kyoto, right, which would be a huge shame.

That ryokan looks incredible!

Kavey, no i could add a night to Tokyo and still keep the 3 nights in Kyoto (so skip Osaka)but if i do this i could lose my Ryokan booking which I am loathed to do! OR i could add a night in Kyoto (and skip Osaka) OR keep everything as i had originally intended! ..... oh decisions decisions....
FilmWill and I are trying to sort guides etc and that is blowing our minds also! had some awesome suggestions just the cost consideration to bear in mind!

The Ryokan DOES look incredible, I really hope it is! :)

HT that link to the romance car is FAB, thank you and i think D and I will definitly take that (and the one with the observation carraige) Now, we can't book until a month before and I just did a mock booking and quite a lot was in japanese.... but hey since when did not knowing the language stop me (gulp)........

MRW - thanks for that link, that's super helpful... its all becoming a little clearer thanks to all your help. (doesn't mean to say i won't be back with more stupid questions though!!)

I'd stay in Kyoto the extra night rather than moving to Osaka for just 1 night. It's not as if you'd run out of great things to do/see there (day in Arashiyama, day trip to Nara, cycling tour, etc.).

From Kyoto, especially with a late flight, the most practical way to KIX is on the Haruka airport train from Kyoto station. It's not at all a fast train (takes about 90 minutes), but it is comfortable and is one of the few trains with lots of room for luggage. With a 23:00 flight from KIX, you can still time for a decent supper in Kyoto then take the train in plenty of time to be at the airport by 21:30 or so.

mmmm food for thought as that would mean if we stay in Kyoto for that extra day (although it would be extra 2 days - but as you said we could do a day trip) we would gain the time otherwise lost by moving hotels.......
How long does it take to get from say Kyoto to Nara and Kyoto to Osaka? (roughly)

About 30 mins from Kyoto to either the main stations at either Nara or Osaka. Dunno about the specifics for

If going to Nara, especially Nara Park, it's a lot easier to use the Kintetsu line (and Kintetsu-Nara station), which is about a half-mile closer to the park than is JR Nara station.

One issue with Osaka is that it is physically an enormous city (maybe not quite as huge as Tokyo, but along that idea). So, if you're in Namba, it's a l-o-n-g way to tha Osaka station area. Nara may make more sense for a day trip, as a lot of the sites that interest most tourists are in the Nara Park area.

DO NOT GIVE UP THAT NIGHT AT HAKONE GINYU!!!

I would rather cut off a limb or even....gulp, give up a night in Kyoto for a night at HK. You have to trust me on this.

You can do a day trip to Osaka from Kyoto and visit Osaka Castle then hit the Dotombori area for a few hours to get a taste of Osaka. Less moving around that way but I wouldn't hesitate to do your itinerary as is. I might move my hotel to the Sheraton Miyako Osaka. A step down from the St Regis but conveniently located right next to shopping and eating venues. Can be had for only 7000 SPG points per night right now. Also the Sheraton is a limo bus stop for the limo bus to KIX.

http://www.kate.co.jp/pc/e_time_tabl...ue_tt.html#for

If you are staying at the Hyatt Kyoto you can take the train as Don suggests or maybe the MK Taxi shuttle or even their limo service might be better....

http://www.mktaxi-japan.com/#!kyoto-kansa/cji5

Aloha!

HT I PROMISE I will not give up the night at Ryokan Ginyu :).
I can extend my stay at the Hyatt in Kyoto( although the rate for that night has gone up) am just deliberating whether to just stay there now and maybe do a day trip to Osaka ( although I do love the idea of Nara) maybe I will do as you suggest HT and go to the castle etc and if it's only 30 mins by train will be a lot less hassle than packing up the case again.

Thanks for all your help guys

Should I be concerened at all that our departure day is a public holiday? Will this effect sightseeing/ travel plans?

You are talking about Labour Day right? Everything will be open and you should be fine. New Years day would be a different story....

is there a shop for premium fish oil hand cream in osaka

Thanks HT, good to know. Well I have extended my stay in Kyoto as D thought it a good idea also. Still plan to do a day trip somewhere though.

Bob, who knows but I'll be sure to google it and find out ;)

I'm here, Smeags. I'm following along (in the very little time that the crazy work schedule allows.) But I echo HT's sentiments. DON'T give up Hakone...and I would add DON'T give up Osaka.

We're going to Osaka for one night and, IMHO, it's worth it for the food alone. The way I see it is: we'll all be back. So why not get a taste for a few places and then use that to inform a future trip to Japan?

So, hey, I'm biased, because you're my traveling buddy and...wherever we go, whatever we do, we're gonna go through it together! (Sorry, couldn't help but go there.)

mmmm ok MORE food for thought from FW, well i have my booking for the extra night (but it is cancelable!) so i will do some more research.....

one final question (for now) what is the fastest train from Tokyo to Hakone? (assume its not the Romance car?)

Romance Car 82-85 min direct from Shinjuku. Shinkansen from Tokyo to Odawara 34-35 min, 27 from Shinagawa. Then 12-15 local train.

If you're starting from Shinjuku, it may be as fast taking the Romance Car.

Fastest way and by far easiest way from your hotel(10 minute walk or quick taxi ride)in Shinjuku is the Romance Car. To get to the shinkansen you would have to go to that same JR Shinjuku Station to catch either the JR Chuo Express to Tokyo station to transfer to a shinkansen that would take you to Odawara Station (gateway to Hakone) or a JR express train bound for Shinagawa on the Loop line where you can connect to a shinkansen to Odawara.

The PH concierge should be able to get you all your train reservations. The Romance train and all travel within Hakone region are on Odakyu Rail Line vehicles while all your other travel will be mainly on JR Rail Lines. I don't remember if there is a travel agent in the PH or in the immediate building but that would be an easy way to get train tickets also.

filmwill, what does your itinerary look like now? Inquiring minds want to know ;)

Aloha!

The Odakyu train gets you from Shinjuku to Hakone-Yumoto with no change of trains. At Hakone-Yumoto, you get the Hakone Tozan Railway train to Gora.

The only reason to take JR would be if you had a JR Pass. Taking JR to Odawara will cost 2000 yen more and save about 15 minutes using the shinkansen. Or same cost and time without using shinkansen. In both cases, JR would require a change of trains before Odawara. At Odawara you would get the Tozan train go Gora, stopping at Hakone-Yumoto on the way.

Going to chime into/hijack my good friend's thread here for a question of my own re: having a JR Pass. Now that I have about 2 minutes between now and November to actually start planning I'm sure I'll have a bombardment of questions...but this is definitely one I need to act on soon as I was going to go pick one up next weekend.

I think, HT, you had previously told me that, yes, I do need the 7 day JR Pass given our planned schedule, but to recap, here's the plan:

Nov 14 Arrive Tokyo
Nov 15 Tokyo
Nov 16 Tokyo
Nov 17 Tokyo
Nov 18 Hakone
Nov 19 Kyoto
Nov 20 Kyoto
Nov 21 Kyoto / Nara
Nov 22 Kyoto
Nov 23 Hiroshima
Nov 24 Miyajima
Nov 25 Osaka
Nov 26 Depart back to LA

I figure I'll be buying my tix (Romance Car) to Hakone and would activate the pass on the trip from Hakone to Kyoto.

That sound right to you all?

Odawara-Kyoto 11,750
Kyoto-Hiroshima 11,000
Hiroshima-Miyajimaguchi 400
Miyajimaguchi-Osaka 10,500
Kyoto-Nara-Kyoto 1,400
add in the Miyajima ferry cost

So, yes, a 7-day pass activated for Nov 19 for Odawara-Kyoto, would save at least 6,000 JPY each.

There is an JR Pass exchange office at Odawara, so you could do it there. I would probably do the exchange at Shinjuku on the 18th (or earlier) before hopping on the Odakyu train. Just make it clear that the activation date is the 19th.

Office hours at Odawara 5:45-22:30

The link for info: http://japanrailpass.net/eng/en009.html

Thanks mrwunrfl! That's what I figured. Just double-checking.

Judging from the look of it, the Park Hyatt is only a hop/skip/jump away from Shinjuku Station, so could easily hop on down there one of our first few days in Tokyo for the exchange.

How do you recommend handling train reservations as a rule of thumb (for JR Pass trains we'll be taking)? Reserve each segment before we travel it? Or reserve all segments in the beginning at Shinjuku?

Any basic guidance through that process would be rather appreciated!

Your hotel has a shuttle to Shinjuku station. Otherwise a 12-minute walk.

Odawara is not a major station so I would get seat reservations for that leg in advance - when you do the exchange for the pass. I would use this timetable: http://tinyurl.com/ltk87ob to choose a Hikari train that goes all the way to Kyoto. Don't take any of the Kodama trains on that timetable. You have other options involving a change of trains (e.g. Hikari to Nagoya, then change) that would better than those Kodama trains.

I would get the seats for the 23rd in advance because it is a holiday. Here is a query that shows the three Hikari trains that go from Kyoto to Hiroshima: http://tinyurl.com/k29k7eg but you have many more options that involve a change of trains.

This page http://japanrailpass.net/eng/en007.html shows the sign that you want to look for. That page mentions that seats can be obtained at travel agencies - am guessing that sign would be on their windows. I've only gotten reserved seats at a JR station.

For the 25th, I would get a shinkansen timetable to know my options. Probably want to take my time that morning. Then you have to get to the ferry, ride the ferry, walk a couple of blocks to the JR station maybe with a stop on the way at the drug store or whatever, then the JR local to Hiroshima station. Then decide what to do: go straight to Osaka or make a stop along the way or get seats for a later train and spend some time in Hiroshima.

How do you recommend handling train reservations as a rule of thumb (for JR Pass trains we'll be taking)? Reserve each segment before we travel it? Or reserve all segments in the beginning at Shinjuku?>>

Hi FW
For our last trip, I'd already used Hyperdia to list out every train trip we wanted to take. I made a little spreadsheet which showed date, the departure time of train we wanted (and name), platform it left from and came into (and time), repeated for each train where we had to change.
On our arrival in Japan, when we went to collect our JRPass, I gave them the sheet and asked if they could make seat reservations for all of them in one go, to save time.
It took them maybe 20 minutes or so, there were quite a few there.
Only once did we decide on the day to take an earlier train, and we just popped into the JR office at the station, gave them our seat reservations to be cancelled and asked if they could make new ones for us on earlier or train or we should just go unreserved. They made new ones.
:-)

<i>Judging from the look of it, the Park Hyatt is only a hop/skip/jump away from Shinjuku Station, so could easily hop on down there one of our first few days in Tokyo for the exchange</i>
You forget about Shinjuku Station being the behemoth that it is. I know of two places within the station to get your JR voucher turned into the JR Pass and I always now use the JR office at the East Ticket gate entry. Easier to find. Just tell the doorman at the Park Hyatt you want the east entrance to Shinjuku station. You can walk but then you will get lost, lol

Aloha!

that should read tell the doorman to get you a taxi and have him tell taxi where to take you

Smeagol

You are getting very good advice from very experienced Japanophiles.

Everything on your list is worth seeing. The thing is, you are traveling from Hakone to Kyoto for your first night in Kyoto, so that's less than a full day in Kyoto, maybe at best a half day. You then have only 2 full days in Kyoto if you go on to Osaka for your last night.

Personally I'd swap the last night in Osaka for one in Kyoto, and decide when you get there if you want to spend another full day in Kyoto or do a day trip to Osaka (it is only 30 minutes away by regular train, although closer to an hour at least to get to any specific destination.) Then spend your last day in Kyoto and take transport as someone detailed above.

****

"You forget about Shinjuku Station being the behemoth that it is."

Hawaiian does not exaggerate. We needed a flipping compass to try to find our way around Shinjuku station. Remember to think of Tokyo as a collection of cities, with Shinjuku being one such city.

From Shinjuku eki you go right, then left, left again, another left, then right.

Hope this helps!