What is the most efficient order for this Japan itinerary?
 

I will be flying into Narita and out of ITM. My itinerary covers:

4 or 5 nights Tokyo with possibly a day trip to Nikko ( ? using the Heritage Pass) or Kamakura
2 or 3 nights Kanazawa or a combination of Kanazawa and Takayama,
1 night Hiroshima, or Miajiima,
5 or 6 nights Kyoto.

Is there some way I can cover this itinerary using a 7 day JR pass. I am wondering what experienced Japan travellers think about this option: There is a bus that goes from Tokyo to Takayama in 3 hous and 10 minutes.. From there I could take a Nohi bus which stops in Shirakawa-go (this town is a definate on my itinerary) and continue on to Kanaazawa. I could then start the JR pass and go to Hiroshima and Miajiima, and continue on to Kyoto. Would I even need a JR pass for Kanazawa-Hiroshima-Miajiima Kyoto?

I haven't purchased plane tickets yet so could add on days if there is anything you would recommend seeing along the way. I was thinking of adding Matsumoto in the Japanese Alps. Would I be missing a lot if I skipped Hakone?

Thanks in advance for your help and for all the other helpful information I gained from reading the other Japan threads that are running at the moment.

The way you have it listed in your first itinerary, the one without the bus across the J Alps, means a 7-day JR Pass would work. It all fits in 7 days. You can even use it for Nikko. For example, Tokyo to Nikko to Tokyo to Takayama/Kanazawa, Kanazawa to Miyajima to Kyoto would work with a 7-day pass.

The other itin, involving busing from Shinjuku on through to Kanazawa, with Kanazawa to Miyajima to Kyoto, would not need a JR Pass (am pretty sure).

But, you can probably do: Tokyo-Nikko-Matsumoto by train, busing from Matsumoto across to Kanazawa, and then rail from there to Miyajima/Hiroshima to Kyoto probably would make a 7-day pass worthwhile.

You can work it out at hyperdia.com

Stopping at Kamikochi for a few hours on the way to Takayama would be worthwhile. I know that a Shinjuku bus goes to some point west of Kamikochi but maybe not via Kamikochi.

Take a look at the following pdf, in particular the "Traffic Network" map. Ogimachi on that map equals Shirakawago. I think there is a new road from there to Kanazawa that was completed after that map was produced and the new road is quicker.

The pdf link: http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/pdf/pg-409.pdf

I have visited Japan twice in the past 3 years. I would spend a night in Hiroshima and another night on Miyajima. You can use your JR pass to get out to Miyajima, as it includes the trip on the JR ferry.
Nikko is a must see.
Hyperdia.com is a fantastic aid when planning train travel.

airline??

Well, after spending many hours planning the itinerary (even missing the Super Bowl) I have the trip planned, more or less. I have a hold on a Dreamliner ticket which I need to ticket by Wed. or it's cancelled, so I guess I now have a deadline to make this decsion. Right now I am leaning toward ticketing it and hoping for the best. On the other hand, I may wake up tomorrow and decide otherwise. So now you know where I stand at the moment.

have you spoken to JAL? what are they using now instead of the dreamliner? is it non-stop?

On flightaware is reporting a Boeing 777-200 is being used in this non-stop route

Aloha!

>>There is a bus that goes from Tokyo to Takayama in 3 hous and 10 minutes.. <<

Where did you get that info? Seems hard to believe.

I'm guessing that is from the the Shinjuku bus terminal in Tokyo.

It is 3 hours from Shinjuku to Matsumoto by a JR limited express train. The pdf I linked above is a bit confusing but it looks like it is about three hours by bus from Matsumoto to Takayama, which sounds right, IME.

I think there is more than one Takayama in Japan even though hyperdia only shows one. That the place you want to go to is often referred to as Hida Takayama is one clue. Also, when told a takkhubin agent that I wanted to ship a bag to Takayama, he asked me to clarify that and we worked it out as Hida-Takayama. Am pretty sure that Takayama means "Eagle Mountain" Or maybe Hawk or Falcon Mountain. A sushi chef explained to me that his name, Taka, meant eagle so I'm going with that.

mrwunfl, you are correct that the bus to Takayama is 5.5 hours. The bus to Matsumoto is 3 hours and 10 minutes. I got the 2 schedules reversed. Thanks for pointing that out.

At this point my itinerary, (excluding the days in Tokyo and Kyoto), using the 7 day JR pass look something like this.

Day 1-Leave Tokyo for Takayamaa at 9:30 and arrive in Takayama at 2:08. Night in Takayama.

Day 2-Sightsee in Takayama in the morning and take the late afternoon Nohi bus to Kanazawa. Night in Kanazawa.

Day 3- Sightsee in Kanazawa

Day 4-Sightsee in Kanazawa

Day 4-Take an early morning train to Hiroshima arriving in the afternoon. Spend the night in Hiroshima or Miajiima

Day5- Sightsee in Hiroshima and Miajiima and take a late train to Kyoto.

I have several question concerning this itinerary which I would welcome some comments on.

One option is on Day 2 I could go to Hilda Folk Village (traditional farmhouses) in Takayama. I would not have time to stop in Shirakawa-go because of the bus schedule, unless I overnighted there and then continued to Kanazawa the next day, which would give me only 1.5 days to sightsee in Kanazawa. On the other hand, I could skip Takayama, take the train on Day 1 to Kanazawa, and take a Nohi bus from Kanazawa to see Shirakawa-go as a day trip from Kanazawa. Which option is better.

Is it worth going to Takayama for the scenery? Is the train ride from Tokyo to Takayama more scenic than the ride to Kanazawa?

Bob, I have not spoken to JA, but their website said that the BOS to Narita run now requires a change of plane. In addition, they have cancelled outright about 6 days in the next 2 weeks.

I think you misunderstood the message. The JAL website says "Japan Airlines will be operating flights between Boston and Narita with a change of aircraft (777-200ER)." This means that the BOS-NRT flight will still be a non-stop flight, but the aircraft type has temporarily changed from 787 to 777. You're correct that the flight will not operate on 6 days in February.

This is in some ways similar to the situation with Concorde in 2000, after the Air France disaster. All flights were suspended, and no one really knew how long it would take to (1)find and (2)implement a solution.

I wouldn't hesitate to get a ticket for the BOS-NRT flight. If the problem has been resolved and the 787 is flying, then you're fine. If the problem is ongoing in the fall and JAL is still operating the 777m then you're still fine. If JAL has for any reason suspended BOS flights, or if the flight on your scheduled date of travel is canceled in advance, then JAL will reroute you either through JFK or Chicago, with American providing the flight from BOS to JFK/ORD.

777-200ER means 3X3 in coach... ugh says the fat man

i will wait and see---and hope..

But the positive spin is that you will be sitting in your seat for less time than if it were a flight with connections.

> One option is on Day 2 I could go to Hilda Folk Village (traditional farmhouses) in Takayama. I would not have time to stop in Shirakawa-go because of the bus schedule, unless I overnighted there and then continued to Kanazawa the next day, which would give me only 1.5 days to sightsee in Kanazawa.

I did not stop in Shirakawa-go because the timing didn't work out for me, and that means that I can't compare options for you. I can say that I enjoyed the Hida Folk Village very much, and also thoroughly enjoyed the wonderful Hida Takayama Art Museum (lots of beautiful glass), the old town and jinya, etc.

I found a LOT to see in Kanazawa, and was glad I hadn't carved a day out of my time there.

Hope that helps!

I have some comments and suggestions.

First, two questions: when is this trip? and how many nights in Japan?

For Kanazawa to Hiroshima the fare is about ¥15,000.
For Hiroshima to Kyoto the fare is about ¥10,000.

A 7-day JR Pass would only cost about ¥3,300 more.

For that ¥3,300 you could go from Tokyo to Takayama by JR using the pass (a ticket for this would be ¥14,000) and it would be a good bit more comfortable than taking a bus. It would be the Tokaido shinkansen from Tokyo to Nagoya. You would see Fuji-san along the way, weather permitting. A darn good view, not just fleeting glance. Transfer at Nagoya and then the Hida limited express. This is a nice ride. It is a narrow valley, so not a mountain view ride, but the train crosses the river a few times and a tunnel, IIRC, - not wow scenic but nice.

Also, you would be able to use the JR Pass in Tokyo for two days. Not a lot of savings here but some.

I took the bus from Takayama, stopped at Hirayu Onsen for a soak, stopped at Kamikochi to take the walking loop - very pretty - crossing the river and through the woods and back across. There are a couple of restaurants and some lodging - I stopped in one place for lunch and also had another soak in their bath. Kamikochi is a nice stop and popular. It doesn't take much time (though you could spend a few days in this area if you are into hiking and stuff). I almost didn't get a seat on the bus, but I got a jumpseat and made it to Matsumoto where I spent the night. Visited the wonderful Matsumoto Castle the next day.

I thought that the bus ride would be scenic, nice, but it mostly was not what I hoped as far as scenery. That is my memory of it, anyway. And it was basically a city bus winding around and up and down. Maybe yours would be a more comfortable highway bus, but it is not shinkansen or limited express train comfortable.

I am advising a stop at Kamikochi but if you really want to go straight on through to Takayama, I have no problem with that. The bus you are looking at might not go via Takayama.

I visited the Hida no Sato in Takayama and enjoyed it very much. It was better than I expected. There are a couple of other worthwhile sights to see in Takayama.

I've got to take a break at this point. I do have a problem with the next part of your plan and want to figure out how to explain why.

A couple of notes:
- Taking the train from Tokyo to Takayama would be 1 hour less travel time. Leave Tokyo at 7:33 and be in Takayama at 12:13. There are probably earlier options.
- There apparently is a seasonal bus from Nagoya to Shirakawago. That is according to the pdf linked above. It appears that it goes to Ogimachi, Shirakawago without going via Takayama. I have not taken that bus so can't comment on the scenery. Tokyo to Nagoya would be with the JR Pass.

The Historic Villages of Shirakawa-go and Gokayama is a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

Hida-no Sato is a museum to visit if you can't go to Shirakawago. But you are planning to go to that museum and just passing through the real thing (ok, Shirakawago is a tourist place now and not a real farming village anymore, but it is a living village and you can spend a night in a gassho-zukuri - not necessary but just passing on through the village without stopping for a few hours is, um, not recomended).

Shirakawago is extremely picturesque, nestled in the mountains. There is a great viewpoint of the village and mountains around, picture postcard perfect. You can visit several gassho-zukuri farmhouses. There is a footbridge across a stream to what I think is a Hida no Sato-type museum, maybe more - it was closed when I was there in January a few years ago. I got there by bus from Toyooka so can't comment on the scenery between Takayama and Kanazawa.

Going from Tokyo to Kanazawa and only stopping for one night and few hours in Takayama would not be worthwhile to me. It is worth a couple of nights or more.

A one night itin that I can recomend:
day 1 - Early departure on JR from Tokyo to Takayama. Get your bus tickets for Day 2 when you arrive, if you can - the bus terminal is next door to Takayama eki (maybe get those bus tix in Tokyo, if possible). Spend the afternoon to visit the Takayama Jinya and the old town and the museum that kja recommended. I advise skipping the museum that is about the Takayama Matsuri, but you can go there too. See the actual Takayama sights and skip Hida no Sato. Have some Hida ramen for lunch. Hida beef for dinner. Spend the night in Takayama - there is a good choice of lodging styles (minshuku, ryokan, hotel).

Day 2 - Leave Takayama in the morning. Spend as much time in Shirakawago as the bus schedule allows (I would want to travel on to Kanazawa during daylight and get there before nightfall - to see what there is to see but also a bus in the dark can be a bit disorienting/not fun for me).

Staying overnight in a gassho-zukuri in Shirakawago is a rustic experience. Given that you are willing to take a bus from Tokyo to Kanazawa, I think you would enjoy it. I wouldn't recommend it to some other fodorites, tho.

KimJapan likes/loves Gokayama. It has been discussed on other threads.

I should have previwed more.

I wrote:
"Going from Tokyo to Kanazawa and only stopping for one night and few hours in Takayama would not be worthwhile to me. It is worth a couple of nights or more."

But meant:
Going from Tokyo to Kanazawa <u>by bus</u> and only stopping for one night and few hours in Takayama would not be worthwhile to me. It is worth a couple of nights or more <u>to make that bus trip</u>.

> Day 2 - Leave Takayama in the morning. Spend as much time in Shirakawago as the bus schedule allows

mrwunrfl offers invaluable advice, but I do have one question: Is there now a luggage storage option in Shirakawa-go? From what I could learn when I went (in 2006), there wasn't, and I was dissuaded from trying to go into the village while the bus was stopped. I was able to get off the bus, and I enjoyed the views immensely, but I felt the need to stay quite close.

In the absence of the liberty to explore Shirakawa-go, I was very glad to spend several hours in the Hida Folk Village (and I could do that because I was going in the opposite direction: I went from Kanazawa to Takayama). I was able to explore a gassho-zukuri inside and out, and also to see several other structures from in and around the Japanese Alps.

Or maybe takuhaibin services are sufficiently fast and reliable to provide timely luggage delivery from Takayama to Kanazawa? (I spent only one night in Takayama, and wouldn't have counted on overnight delivery.)

In Shirakawa-go, there are lockers in the info center, and I've known the counter staff to keep some bags too when all lockers are full. Alternative - send your bags ahead (takes an overnight) and carry a small bag. You could send your bags to Kanazawa while you stop in Takayama. It's reliable. Totally.

And yes, I love Gokayama, but access with limited time and public transport is problematic. Unless you rent a car or use a taxi then stick with S-go.

I believe I did not make myself clear in my posting of Feb. 4. I have totally scrapped the bus idea and will do those 5 days with a JR pass, or JR pass and Nohi bus. Between those 5 days I have 5 nights in Tokyo and 6 nights in Kyoto.

Kim-About how much would it cost to take a taxi from Kanazawa to S and G with one hour stops in each, and do you think it would be worth it? My DH does not want to drive, nor spend the night in S-G, and I need to give him a little control over this trip. lol

Right now my itinerary for those days is:

Nov.10-Early train to Takayama. Spend the night in Takayama

Nov.11- I am leaning toward Sightseeing in Takayama for the day and taking a 4 PM bu or train to Kanazawa, arriving at about 6PM. I have no hotel reserved for this night.

Nov.12 and 13-Sightsee Kanazawa. 2 nights reserved in Kanazawa

Nov. 14-Sightsee in Kanazawa and take a train to Hiroshima arriving at 8:30.

Nov. 15-Sightsee Hiroshima and Miajiima and take a late train to Kyoto arriving about 8:30

We then have 5 full days and 6 nights in Kyoto.

How does that sound? Any comments would be appreciated.

mrwunrfl, we are leaving Boston Nov. 4 returning on Nov. 21 with 16 nights in Japan. I am trying to fit Shirakawago into the itinerary, I just haven't figured out how. Depending on KimJapan's answer to my question about a taxi, maybe that is the way to do it.

The only way I could go there from Takayama with the Nohi bus is to leave Takayama at 12:50 which would give me only the morning for sightseeing in Takayama, and I don't know whether that would be enough time. Alternatively, I could take time away from Kanazawa, as we will have almost 3 full days of sightseeing there before heading to Hiroshima.

Car hire with driver for Kanazawa - Gokayama - S-go - Kanazawa will be from ¥45,000 for a day I think. Ana hour stop is likely not enlighten for S-go and the villages of Gokayama are spread out.

Thanks, Kim. That won't be an option for us. As I continue planning, I will try to work out getting to S-go by the Nohi bus.

Just going from Takayama to S-go to Kanazawa by bus is straightforward, as is a round-trip from either T or K to S-go. Here's the schedule. http://www.nouhibus.co.jp/english/sh..._kanazawa.html

If you do finally get to S-Go by bus you'll be kicking yourself thinking how you should have driven to have more freedom/access also how easy it would have been and the time it would have saved......:)

My 2-cents FWIW would be to enjoy what you already have on your plate which is quite a bit right now and enjoy it l-e-i-s-u-r-e-l-y. Long days on the Nov 14 and 15.

Aloha!

HT-What you say has a lot of merit, but for a type A personality like myself, there is a great temptation to try to "get it right". I've never traveled in Japan, so I don't know if my assessment of Nov. 14 and 15 is correct, but I am thinking it can't be that difficult to do some sightseeing and then sit on a train for several hours. In Hiroshima we will be staying at a hotel in the train station to make things easier.

KimJapan, thanks for the bus schedule and the Gokayama input - stick with Shirakawago.

Nov 10 - you can get to Takayama by 12:13 and have the afternoon to see the sights.

Nov 11 - take two buses between Takayama and Kanazawa. One from Takayama to S-go, second bus from S-go to Kanazawa.

See the bus schedule link that KimJapan gave.

In the first table:
8:50 - depart Takayama Nohi Bus Center
9:40 - arrive Shirakawago

In the second table:
16:50 - depart Shirakawago
18:05 - arrive Kanazawa Ekimae (bus stop at JR Kanazawa station)

That is 7 hours in Shirakawa-go. Or am I missing something?

I think I saw the lady in the visitor center stash a bag behind the counter for a tourist (coulda been me, actually, on the day that I left S-go). But, yes, use takkyubin to ship stuff from Takayama and travel very light to S-go and on to Takayama - light enough that you can carry it around S-go in case that you can't stash it at the visitors center. That is, plan to stash the stuff at the visitors center in S-go, but just take as little as you need for the overnight in Kanazawa (a clean shirt, socks, underwear, whatever - if anything) until your bag arrives.

In your most recent itinerary you are "leaning toward" taking a bus or train from Takayama to Kanazawa.

This idea has merit, considering your interest in scenery. You can do it by train.

The route Takayama would involve traveling via Toyama to Kanazawa. The book <i>Japan by Rail</i> stated that the line between Takayama and Toyama is one of the most scenic rail trips in Japan. You can get limited express trains on both legs with your JR Pass - no bus fares to pay. But leave no later than 3:15PM or earlier (so that the Takayama-Toyama leg is in daylight). If you get your sightseeing done on Nov 10 or morning of the 11th, then you can get to Kanazawa much earlier (dep Takayama 11:00 arr Kanazawa 13:23).

Now, having written all that, I have to mention that my plan in November 2011 was to take that trip from Takayama to Toyama for the scenery but decided against it - figuring it to be cold in the mountains and trees bare in the mountains. That, plus I had more interesting things to do in Kanazawa.

Maybe someone can comment on fall colors in the Japan Alps (Takayama to Toyama, Takayama to S-go, in S-go) during the OP's planned travel time. My aborted plan might have been later in the month.

If you are an early bird, you can depart Tokyo at 6:26 and arrive Takayama at 10:55. That 6:26 is the first Hikari from Tokyo to Nagoya and has a good connection to the limited express, fastest option, to Takayama.

When I went to Shirakawa-go it was a nasty rainy day in April. but I had decided on my schedule before I knew the weather forecast. I took the bus from Takayama that arrived at 10:40, walked to the few historic homes/temple that can be visited and got a snack and then took the 1:50 bus on to Kanazawa. Because of the bad weather, I didn't go to the viewpoint but according to Japan-guide it is about a 15 to 20 minute walk so I'm sure I could have fit that in. I left my suitcase at the tourist info office. I think seven hours would be too much and would rather spend the time in Takayama or Kanazawa....

> I think seven hours would be too much and would rather spend the time in Takayama or Kanazawa....

I agree with Mara, even though I didn't explore Shirakawa-go.

For example, you can see a gassho-zukuri - and everything else in Takayama's Hida Folk Park - in 3 or 4 hours. And if you take the bus, you are probably still going to have at least a little bit of time in Shirakawa-go, unless the departures now match the arrivals perfectly (which I doubt).

But of course, I don't know what I didn't see when I decided to not explore Shirakawa-go....

From Kanazawa on, you have a good plan.

You get to Kanazawa the night of 11/11. Two full days there plus a half-day leaving at 4PM the next day. Get to Hiroshima around 8:30 PM. An hour or so earlier arrival might be better, but yours is a good schedule that allows more time for Kanazawa.

The Nov 14-15 plan is good, IMHO. An overnight in Hiroshmia is better than doing it all as a day trip from Kyoto. More better is a second night, spent on Miyajima.

Your hotel is next to the shinkansen side of the station? The Granvia or Sheraton?

You have a lot of time in Kyoto. Are you planning to visit Nara?

Ok, four hours then, better than 10 minutes! Get to S-go at 9:40. Go from visitors center to the viewpoint, take the shuttle over to the museum area, walk back to the center of the village via the footbridge, visit some gassho zukuri, and back to the visitors center if that is where the Kanazawa bus would depart. Something like that. Travel on to Kanazawa during daylight arriving at 3:05 PM.

mrwunrfl-In answer to your questions/comments:

1-There is no way my DH could make a 6:26 train unless it were 6;26 PM. lol. So we probably will not arrive into Takayama until 2PM.

2-We are staying at the Hotel Granvia in Hiroshima.

3-In checking the train schedule from Takayama to Kanazawa, I see that the trip takes 2.5 hours. I still might do it rather than take the Nohi bus because of the scenery and because it is free. I will decide based on how much sightseeing I have accomplished in Takayama. If I could make the 12:50 Nohi bus and have a couple of hours in Shir-go, I would take the bus. But if I needed more time in Takayma, I would take the train, and make the trip to Shir-go by Nohi bus from Kanazawa.

4-We will do a day trip to Nara from Kyoto. I have just added an extra day to our itinerary to have more time in Kyoto. If we find we don't need the extra day in Kyoto we will take a trip to Hikone or Osaka.

Finally this trip is coming together. Thanks to everyone for all the help in planning this itinerary.

Ok. If you leave Takayama by rail then keep in mind that sunset is at 4:46 PM and it will be full dark a half-hour later. The mountains probably would probably make it dark earlier.

If no stop in S-go then recommend you take a Takayama city bus UP to Hida no Sato. The walk back to town is downhill and then flat and not far.

> If no stop in S-go then recommend you take a Takayama city bus UP to Hida no Sato. The walk back to town is downhill and then flat and not far.

Indeed! This is one place where it really does make a difference where and how you start! And depending on your timing, you might be able to visit the Hida Takayama Museum of Art on the way back into town - wonderful collection of glass and (oddly enough) Macintosh:

http://www.htm-museum.co.jp/info/english.html

More than enough advice up there... You won't be bored w. Kyoto & all the rest, but if you have the time to spare and will reach as far south as Kyushu island you'd want to consider Yanagawa (taste the black eel + take the canal boat trip) & Dezayfu, both quaint and less traveled by our tourist hordes.

I am now thinking of going Tokyo-Matsumoto-Takayama by JR trains in one day. That would have us arriving in Takayama at either 8PM or 10 PM, depending on which train we catch in Matsumoto. Our hotel is a 10 minute walk from the train station, but since it will be dark, I probably would not be able to find it. Are taxis available at the train station at that time of night. And is it acceptable for guests to arrive at a small B and B type hotel at 10 PM?