Vietnam - North to South

Old Dec 13th, 2011, 10:00 AM
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Vietnam - North to South

Spoiler alert - this will probably be incredibly long and will take several days! We just returned from an amazing three weeks in Vietnam so there is lots to report. I will try to do it as fast as possible, but want to give lots of detail since other trip reports were instrumental in making this one possible.

Day One:
Early morning flight from ORD so we were up at 3:45. Used miles from United so the trip was basically free! Flew from ORD to SFO and then to Seoul (Inchon) before finally ending up in Hanoi at 10:30 at night. At this point we had the only "Murphies" of the trip. 1) We got in the wrong line for our Visa. We had elected to do the Visa on Arrival through Tonkin Tours (they helped with several sections of the trip but we did not use them exclusively). Apparently, the Hanoi airport decided that it made sense for you to have to go around to the BACK of the Visa office to give them your paperwork and then come back to the FRONT window to wait around until they call your name. After discovering our mistake we got things organized, but it took longer than it should have. 2) We had arranged for transport through the Diamond Elegance (our hotel for Hanoi) and when we got out to the pick up area there was no one waiting with our name on a sign. After asking several people, we finally ended up taking a cab to the hotel for $15. The hotel staff was VERY apologetic - they had sent someone and had no idea why they didn't show. But all's well that ends well and we finally fell into bed at about 1am.

Day Two:
Only to be waked up at 6:45 by the start of construction. EVERYWHERE in Vietnam there is construction, so I don't think it is possible to find a hotel that doesn't have something being built near it. And they start early! So much for the plan of getting a solid 8 hours so that we could reset our internal clocks. But who needs sleep !

The Diamond Elegance is an amazing hotel and I HIGHLY recommend them. The staff could not have been nicer or more accommodating and the room was very comfortable and well decorated. The breakfast is a combination of buffet items and ordering off a small menu (basically eggs and pancakes made to order). We were meeting some friends who had flown in from New Zealand (where they spend half the year) and found them at breakfast.

After breakfast, we had the hotel staff flag us down a cab and we went to the Tonkin office to settle up our invoices. Since we had not seen much of the city it was nice to take a bit of a drive. But, riding in any vehicle in Hanoi is an experience. Apparently the road signs and traffic lights are only suggestions, especially for scooters which are the primary modes of transportation. Actually, walking can be an experience as the scooters dart in and out and drive up on the sidewalk. The trick is to not show fear (yeah right!) and to just keep moving. I found myself getting into kind of a "zen" mode and stepping out into the street. Even in the traffic circles, it was amazing to find that the scooters just sort of weave around pedestrians and somehow it all works. But bear in mind that when the light turns red for one direction of traffic, you CANNOT assume that it will stop. Scooters continue through the red light - as I said, the light seems to be just a suggestion.

The other thing that became very clear very quickly regarding the scooters is that since they are the primary source of transportation for most people, you will see all manner of things being transported. We had seen this in Thailand also, but it is even more pronounced in Vietnam. From families of four to people transporting sofas, we saw all some amazing things on the scooters. At one point there was a guy carrying a ten foot metal pipe on his shoulder with one had while he steered with the other. The only thing more amazing was when we saw people carrying things on the scooter and driving while texting! The traffic cops in the US would have a field day in Vietnam!

The rest of the first day we just took it easy. Our friends went for a walk through the Old Quarter while DH and I took a cyclo for about an hour. I had thought that the price quoted (I think it was about 100,000 dong or $5.00) was for both of us, but it turned out it was per person (we both squeezed onto one). So we could have spread out a bit and had two, but this way we got to talk about what we were seeing. Probably more work for the poor guy peddling us though! Since we were dropped off right by Hoan Kiem Lake, we walked aver there and went out to the temple on the little island. Very pretty. Then we walked along the lake to see some of the sculptures, including a very large world globe with a dove on top. Lots of pictures being taken including some wedding photos. We then stopped at a local Pho restaurant and had Pho and a beer.

One of the things I wanted to do at some point was to get some new glasses made. I found a whole area in the Old Quarter with optics stores and went to several until I found one that had what I liked for a price I was willing to pay. We did some bargaining and I managed to get a pair of progressive lenses and a pair of sunglasses (just distance) for $125 US. Given that those same glasses (frames and lenses) would be close to $1000 in the US, I was happy. It took 3 days for them to get them back, but we had time so it all worked.

For dinner that night we went to the Hanoi Garden. It was a lovely restaurant tucked away off the street. The food was excellent and it was very reasonably priced. Went to bed pretty soon after dinner since it had been a rather long day.
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Old Dec 13th, 2011, 06:56 PM
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Great start...looking forward to the rest. we leave for SEAsia In a couple weeks and end with about 3 weeks in VN. On the glasses, did u take a copy of your prescription? Also could u pls be more specific as to where in the old quarter u found the area selling glasses. Thanks!
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Old Dec 14th, 2011, 06:49 AM
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Keep it coming. So glad you enjoyed the Hotel Elegance. I can't rave about that hotel chain enough.
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Old Dec 14th, 2011, 06:51 AM
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Yes, I did take my prescription with me since it is pretty complicated. The street with all of the optical shops was right off the traffic circle at the north end of Hoan Kiem Lake. I believe it was Luong Van Can. If that's not it, check Hang Dao. Enjoy!
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Old Dec 14th, 2011, 09:08 AM
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Both Hanoi and HCMC have "optical" areas. There were many many places to get glasses near our hotel around Ben Thanh market in HCMC. You won't really be able to miss it. Same goes for Hanoi -- you'll stumble upon it as you wander around the old city.
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Old Dec 14th, 2011, 11:47 AM
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Day Three:

So, back to the report. This day we had arranged to have a guide from Hanoi Kids. We ended up with two (Duc and Trang), both of whom had good English skills. Trang was learning the ropes of being a guide and was very eager to have us enjoy our day. Our first stop was the Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum. We had assumed that we would not get to see "Uncle Ho" as he is usually off in Russia during November being "refurbished." But he had just gotten back so we got in line to go in to the mausoleum. It became very clear right from the start how revered he is (at least in the north). We decided that he is sort of a combination of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. He is considered the "founding father" of Vietnam and he is also credited with the reunification of the country (although he was already dead by the time the war was over in 1975). Trang explained that he is known as "Uncle Ho" because he considered all of the people of Vietnam to be his "children." He never married or had children of his own, preferring to focus all of his attention on the people of Vietnam.

After visiting the mausoleum, we walked around the grounds which were very beautiful. There are trees from every part of Vietnam planted in the gardens and the mausoleum itself has marble from every province. While we were viewing his home (very modest), we saw a whole group of older Vietnamese who were obviously considered very important as they were being allowed to enter places that most visitors were not. Many of the women had medals on their ao dais and we asked Duc and Trang about the significance. It turned out that they were part of a group of women known as the "hero mothers". This means that they had sons or husbands who fought and died in the "American War."

As we left the Ho Chi Minh complex, our cab pulled up to an area that was apparently off limits. The police immediately came over and asked him to step out of the cab. Some discussion ensued and we ended up having to leave that cab and find another. We felt quite bad about him getting in trouble since he had been trying to get close enough that we would not have to walk too far. Later that day we ended up seeing him again and found out that he had not lost his license or been taken into custody. I think they ended up just giving him a warning.

Our next stop was the Temple of Literature which was the first university in Vietnam and is based on the teachings of Confucius. In one area of the complex there was a group of traditional musicians performing. One of the instruments was very different - it had only one string but based on how the musician manipulated it, the sounds were quite varied. There were also many young women in the complex in beautiful ao dais (the traditional dress) having their pictures taken. We had our picture taken with them and later commented to each other that they were all so pretty and thin. We wondered where the chubby ones were ;-). Never did find them!

For lunch we went to a very popular local restaurant - Quan An Ngon. As it was a Saturday there were many families out having lunch together. We asked Duc and Trang to order for us and I have no idea what we ate, but it was fabulous. The Vietnamese pancakes and the pork skewers were especially good and the bill at the end was very reasonable.

For our afternoon, Duc recommended the Museum of Vietnamese Women. DH decided he was tired and went back to the hotel and the rest of us continued on. The museum was very interesting but a bit warm. We spent about 2 hours there. The most interesting part to me was the role of women in the military during the 1960's and 70's. After that it was back to the hotel and farewell to our guides. They refused any money (as I had been told they would) but we had each brought some t-shirts as gifts. One from Chicago and one from New Zealand for each of them.

We went up to the terrace bar at the hotel and had some drinks and then ate dinner at the restaurant there. The food was very good and the service was even better. Early to bed as DH and I had an early pickup the next day.

Day Four:
We parted ways with our friends for a few days as they wanted to go up to Sapa and we had decided to follow the "road less traveled" and go to the northeast. Our primary goal was to see Ban Gioc waterfall on the border with China. If you go to any Chinese restaurant and see a terraced waterfall, that is the one we were going to see. Getting there, however, is not easy. We had arranged a five day package with Tonkin Tours that included a guide (Hieu) and driver (Mr. Hong).

One of the first things that Hieu told us was that it was National Teachers Day in Vietnam. Both of us are retired teachers (as are our friends) so that made us feel good. Apparently teachers are very well respected in Vietnam and are well paid compared to many people.

Our first stop was at the Museum of Ethnology about an hour our of Hanoi (different from the one right in Hanoi). There were some interesting exhibits, especially the Cham pagoda and the tomb house of one of the ethnic minorities. We stopped for lunch at a great local place. There were several groups of teachers having lunch and we chatted (through Hieu) with a group of math teachers. After lunch we got more out into the country, but what surprised us is how far out of Hanoi the development extends. We eventually started to get into a more mountainous area and smaller towns. We stopped in one for some sweet corn on the side of the road. I can tell already that eating is going to be a big part of my memories of this trip!

The road less traveled is the only way to describe this part of our trip. We turned off the main road to head towards the town of Cho Ra and Ba Be Lake. The road has been under construction for about three years and it is definitely not done yet. For an hour and a half we bumped over gravel and through hairpin turns. The countryside was beautiful - steep mountains and rice fields all over. Finally we arrived in Cho Ra and checked in to our guesthouse (the Ba Be Guesthouse). It is very basic (to put it mildly). It took us a while to figure out how to work everything, but we finally managed to get the air conditioning to work and started to feel better. One caveat to anyone going to this part of the country - do not expect the typical comforts of the US. And certainly do not expect an elevator. We were on the third floor which involved walking up the stairs (difficult for DH who has bad knees). That being said, the room was clean, the bed was nice and firm, and the view out to the rice fields was breathtaking (I'm sure that's why they gave us the third floor - it had the best view). The bathroom was interesting in that the shower was simply part of the room - not in its own little stall. But there was hot water and they provided all of the toiletries you could possibly need or want.

Dinner was at a local restaurant where we had some Pho and a beer - better than the Pho I had in Hanoi. Then back to the room and early to sleep.
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Old Dec 14th, 2011, 12:20 PM
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A shame you missed Sapa as it was one of our favorite spots, but sounds like the road less traveled was equally, if not more interesting.
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Old Dec 14th, 2011, 03:46 PM
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great start...looking forward to more
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Old Dec 14th, 2011, 05:18 PM
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Great report. Looking forward to hearing more of your Ba Be experiences. We were in a homestay there in 2008 and loved it! (Preferred it to Sapa)
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Old Dec 14th, 2011, 07:49 PM
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I think that heading to Ba Be and Ban Gioc was a much better choice for us. It seemed that the way to really experience Sapa is to do some trekking and that is not something that we could do. But drifting in a boat on a river and lake and going to see a waterfall was perfect. Ban Gioc has been said to be the fourth largest waterfall to span a border. The other three are Niagara (been there), Victoria (there too) and Iguassu (and there). Iguassu is, for us, the best of the four, but Ban Gioc definitely ranks with the others. It kept opening up new corners as we got closer. Maybe the challenge of getting there made it special, but we really enjoyed it tremendously. I'll try to get some more done tomorrow.
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Old Dec 15th, 2011, 05:25 AM
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Now I'm jealous and wanting to return!
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Old Dec 15th, 2011, 01:26 PM
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You definitely should. It was well worth the time and aggravation on the "road less traveled" to see the northeast. As we reported in one of our e-mails to family and friends: "The reason it is less traveled is that it is bumpy, under construction, and occupied by rather crazy drivers. In realty, the road barely exists. It is frequently only one lane and is inhabited by buffalo, dogs taking a nap, pigs, heavy construction equipment, and entire families carrying unbelievable amounts of stuff on motor scooters (sometimes while texting). It is not unusual to see mom, dad, and an infant barreling down the road with absolutely no safety equipment for anyone. Headlight and taillight usage is truly optional, even at night. It is utterly impossible to exaggerate the sheer insanity of it all. But apparently, it works." And even as we moved further south and the roads got better, the insanity of the scooters continued. We did see a few accidents, but not as many as I would have expected.

The other thing we saw very clearly as we traveled around the country was how hard people work. Whether they are working on a construction project or in the fields, much of the work is very physically taxing. And even in the service industry, the energy and upbeat nature is hard to miss (and is definitely missing from many of the service industries here in the US). We found it difficult to imagine most Americans being willing to work so hard and keeping a positive outlook.
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Old Dec 15th, 2011, 02:16 PM
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In Hanoi, we saw a family of five on one motorbike. And on the road to Halong Bay, we saw a guy driving a motorbike and carrying two dead pigs!
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Old Dec 15th, 2011, 02:29 PM
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Back to my report now:

Day Five:
It is hard to believe that's all it was when I think of how much we had seen and done so far. Our day started early as we awoke to roosters, dogs, and the voices of people working in the rice field below us. It was a somewhat misty morning and the photos I shot from our balcony are some of my favorites. BTW - we ended up with almost 3,000!!! I think we need to do some editing before we subject people to them.

Our breakfast was back at the same local restaurant we had gone to the night before and was the typical Vietnamese breakfast of Pho. We definitely felt like we were a bit "on display" as people came in to the restaurant and just had tea while they watched us. The owner took a photo of us on his phone. They do not know what to make of this older American couple so far from home. It kind of made me glad that we could shatter some stereotypes. And we were received so warmly by everyone we met.

We headed to the local "pier" to get on our boat for the day. There wasn't much of a pier that I could see, just several boats pulled up to a very steep, muddy embankment. A bit of a challenge for someone with bad knees, but fortunately I had gotten one of those collapsible walking sticks prior to the trip and it earned its keep in those few minutes. The boat was relatively comfortable - we sat on a wide board across the width of the boat and the bottom was fairly flat so it was stable.

We puttered down the river and watched construction, laundry, and other daily activities. There were huge stands of very tall bamboo along the banks and the limestone mountains kept getting higher and higher as we went. It was absolutely stunning!

We saw where the "international" pier is going to be along with a huge hotel. That will definitely bring in more people, although the road to get here will still be the same. Right now the primary westerners who visit this part of the country are ones from France.

At one point the river went into a huge caves with hundreds of bats (we couldn't see them but we could hear and smell them). The formations in the limestone were amazingly beautiful. Continuing down the river the cliffs and the caves in the limestone continued to amaze us. The jungle on either side was very thick - although I am not sure how many of those trees managed to stay put on the steep cliff walls.

We stopped for lunch at a little village area (I think it may be where some of the homestays are) and took a walk to a small waterfall. The path along the river was quite lovely and the waterfall itself was small but pretty as it split around huge boulders. Lunch was at the "Pirate" restaurant (the name of the owner) and was delicious. we were visited by the largest bee I have ever seen who decided that the top of our beer cans were tasty. Fortunately we were done!

After lunch we went back up the river and into Ba Be Lake which is part of a national park. It was absolutely stunning. The pictures I had seen of it looked nice, but did not do it justice. I cannot come up with any words to fully describe the serenity and majesty of the lake. Our time on it was over way too soon.

When we got back to Cho Ra, I went for a walk in the town. Every kid that I passed by waved and shouted "hello, hello". I passed what seemed to be a high school where a "driver's ed" class was going on - kids learning how to drive scooters. Then I met up with some young boys just getting out of school who wanted to practice their English with me - English is a required subject in school. Back in the guest house I figured out how to connect with the free wi-fi and sent some e-mails. It amazes me that we can be so far off the beaten path and still be connected. In some ways I guess that is good - especially for the people who live there - but I always liked being a bit unavailable on trips.

Went to dinner at a different local restaurant and had amazing spring rolls, BBQ pork, and veggies with lots of garlic. YUM!

Day Six:
I said this was going to be long ! Breakfast today was at the guest house (the owner had returned from being out of town) and was more western - eggs and toast. We again woke to the sounds of the field and the town and watched people working on the rice harvest. We also watched several dogs having a great time playing keep away with something. We asked Hieu about dogs as meat in Vietnam and he said that some people do still eat dog meat, but they do not eat dogs who are pets. There is apparently a big difference in people's minds regarding which dogs are OK to eat.

This day we drove from Cho Ra to Cao Bang for our next two nights. On the way from one to the other we went over five mountain passes. Unfortunately it was a bit overcast and drizzly so we couldn't always see the view that should have been there. We stopped first to watch the rice harvest and the burning of the fields. After the rice is harvested, they cut the remaining straw and use it for various things. Soem they collect to use as bedding to keep their buffalo warm in the winter. The rest gets burned on the field as fertilizer and pesticide. Very organic farming! In the south they will also use the straw to burn for cooking and making bricks. Everything gets used at least once. At another point we stopped where they were using a rotating machine to shake loose the last of the rice from the stalks. I went and helped with it which was lots of fun. Got talking with the guy in charge and we discovered that we were the same age (although he said that I looked younger - always good to say to a woman!).

Our next stop was in a town where they make honey and we got to see some of the hives and the process. Then we stopped in the town for tea and to wander through the market. In that market it was clear that dog meat is still used as there was a dog butchered up at one of the stalls. Very strange to see, but I have to keep thinking - how is that different from the various pigs that are for sale at other stalls?

As we continued on I noticed that there were poinsettias all over the place - many of them at least 8-10 feet tall. I guess that's appropriate since Christmas is coming. We got to Cao Bang at 12:30 and checked into our hotel which is right in the center of town. A bit fancier than the last one, but not as good a view. We had lunch and then went back to the room to rest.

I discovered one thing about Cao Bang - there don't seem to be any places to have laundry done other than the hotel which is pretty pricey. So I washed things out in the sink and had the hotel only do a few shirts. At about 4 I went for a walk with Hieu around town. Saw a whole group of scooters blocking a street and he said that it was parents waiting to pick their kids up from school. Just like at home....fits the saying we heard throughout Vietnam: "same same but different!" Dinner, relaxing in a cafe watching people, and then to bed. Another full day!
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Old Dec 15th, 2011, 02:56 PM
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I'm enjoying your report. I was in Vietnam in Feb. and the great food was one of the highlights of our trip. I'm looking forward to the rest of your report.
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Old Dec 15th, 2011, 07:31 PM
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Very interesting. I've been thinking about the northeast and am really enjoying your report.
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Old Dec 15th, 2011, 08:15 PM
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In Hanoi, we saw a family of five on one motorbike. And on the road to Halong Bay, we saw a guy driving a motorbike and carrying two dead pigs!

Amazing, isn't it...one of my favorite pictures is the live pig on the back of the motorcycle. Probably going to market. Another favorite is from Siem Reap where I captured a family of 6 on a motorcycle. You'd never see that in the USA as most family members would never fit on a motorcycle together.

Loving your report. There's just so many interesting places to visit on this earth!
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Old Dec 16th, 2011, 07:26 PM
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Glad everyone is enjoying this. I enjoy writing it as it helps me relive the trip.

Day Seven:
This was one of the days we had really anticipated and it did not disappoint. We started out with a wonderful breakfast of a warm baguette straight from the market and then headed to Ban Gioc Waterfall. It was going to be a very long drive as the roads are terrible. One of the things we learned is that the Vietnamese and the Chinese signed a treaty a while back regarding the border. What it meant for us was that we could cross into China with no problem and no visa. But for the Vietnamese it means that they cannot build any hotels or improve the roads within a certain distance from the border. Unfortunately prior to signing the treaty, the Chinese had built hotels and improved the roads. So the tourism to the waterfall from China is quite strong while the visits from the Vietnamese side are very sparse. Many people in Vietnam have never been there or even really though about going. But for our money it was incredibly worth the hassle of getting there.

Our first stop of the day was at a local market. We wanted to stop and take pictures of the mountains without bouncing and the marker was an added bonus. There was a very nice woman selling cake made of rice flour that we bought (she gave me an extra piece when I declared it wonderful) and a wonderful old woman who allowed me to take my picture with her. She was all smiles and hugged me like a long lost relative.

Our next stop was a village that makes knives. We got to watch the guys as the pounded the steel over the hot fire. It was incredible to watch the strength it took to make the quality knives that people then use in the fields and in the kitchen. Of course we were offered the obligatory tea when we arrived. I love this part of the culture!

We finally arrived at the waterfall at 11:30. Our guide said that we could take a bamboo raft up to the waterfall if we wanted to. I think he was thinking we wouldn't want to - silly him! Of course we did. It was like taking the Maid of the Mist but more up close and personal. The spray from the waterfall was wonderful and the pictures we got were amazing. I won't ever be able to go into a Chinese restaurant without saying "I've been there!" We then walked over to the Vietnamese side of the falls (the boats take you to the Chinese side). There was a border dispute between the two countries and the Chinese kind of won it and moved the border so that more of the falls is in China. But the Vietnamese side is the taller side and just as beautiful. We spent over and hour just wandering around and enjoying the falls. Then we went back up to the top and found that the restaurant had opened up for lunch. We had one of our simplest but best meals of the trip. It consisted of what our guide called "student noodles" which was basically Ramen noodles fried with pork and vegetables. That and a beer cost us about $2.

Most tours to this area then go to the cave where Uncle Ho spent several years, but our guide said that the walk in was very steep and difficult. I had also read that it was more interesting to Vietnamese than to Westerners. So he took us to a border market that was very interesting. Then we started heading back to Cao Bang taking a slightly different but just as pretty route.

Day Eight (Thanksgiving):
We got up early and checked our e-mail. Found a change to my Christmas flights and I was able to e-mail my dad to ask him to look into it. This wi-fi connection in the middle of nowhere is amazing!

Our first stop on the way back to Hanoi was another (and bigger) border market. Our guide was looking for a new cell phone (which he found) and we were just browsing. I must say I was somewhat offended in that market. I saw a pair of athletic pants that were listed at only about $7 so I thought I would try to bargain them down a bit. The shopkeeper took out a pair that would fit me and when I looked at the label and saw the XL tag (I typically wear a small in the US) I could not bring myself to buy them. Of course, compared to most Vietnamese women, I probably am at least a large if not more so.

We stopped for a bit in Lang Son at a cave with a carving from the 16th century. It is considered to be a very sacred cave and as we were leaving two buses pulled up and disgorged their visitors. We then went to a local restaurant for lunch and then back to Hanoi to meet up with our friends. While everyone was resting I went and picked up the glasses I had ordered. They came out really well and I have worn them every day since then. Amazing for $75!

Over dinner in the hotel (no turkey, but I had Cashew Chicken) we traded stories of our adventures and then went to the Water Puppet theater. I wasn't sure what to expect, but it was very cute and a lot of fun. It is an old art in Vietnam and has been listed as a cultural treasure. It was very engaging and I would highly recommend it as a fun evening. Apparently it is not only a very old tradition, it is also something that is passed down from father to son an is considered to be quite an honor to be a puppeteer. Then back to the hotel and to bed so we can be ready for our pick-up for Halong Bay. More on that later.
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Old Dec 17th, 2011, 05:43 AM
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Loving your report. It makes me sorry we're not going to the NE. Sounds fascinating.
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Old Dec 17th, 2011, 12:50 PM
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i have been searching for a dog butcher all day and finally found one in Cambridge, so i will go there for our Christmas roast...
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