Updated Japan itinerary with questions
 

My itinerary has certainly changed since I first posted regarding my Apr/May trip. There were some casualties – namely Hokkaido and Kanazawa – but I think with the exception of a couple of busy days this will work well for us. Please feel free to comment and make suggestions. I do have some specific questions where advice is most welcome.
Apr 21 – Arrive Narita (staying at Courtyard Marriot Ginza)
Apr 21-28 – Tokyo – activities include tour w/ Junko Matsuda, exploring neighborhoods (walking tours), sumo stables
Apr 28 – travel to Ise Peninsula – evening in Yukinsato Ryokan in Toba
Apr 29 – sightseeing around the peninsula depart afternoon to Nagoya
Apr 29 – May 1 – Nagoya Hilton – activities include Nagoya Castle, possible trip to Kobe
May 1 – depart Nagoya to Gero (1.5 hrs JR train) staying at Yunoshimakan Ryokan
May 2 – depart Gero (by 10:00 am) to Shirakawa-go (45 minutes) sightseeing in area
Depart Shirakawa-go about 2 pm going to Takayama (about 1.5 hours?)
May 2-4 – Takayama – one night at Sumiyoshi Ryokan and one night at Rickshaw Inn – we are interested in learning more about Sake and tasting, morning market and local crafts
May 4 – depart Takayama about 2 pm returning to Nagoya Hilton (2.5 hrs by JR train)
May 4-6 Nagoya Hilton – hope to take in a baseball game on the 4th or 5th and hiking in the Kiso Valley
May 6 – depart by 8:30 am on Nozomi going to Miyajima (3 hrs)
May 6 – sightseeing on the island, spend the night at Kinsuikan Ryokan
May 7 – depart for Hiroshima by 9:00 am – sightseeing in Hiroshima (Peace Park…)
depart by 1pm for Himeji (1.25 hrs by JR train)- sightseeing – Himeji Castle
depart Himeji for Kyoto Okura Hotel
May 7-14 – Kyoto – activities include walking tour with Johnny Hillwalker, Geisha district walking tour, Arashiyama, and other walking tours

Considerations for this trip:
Our son, who is teaching in the outback of Hokkaido will be joining us at some point but we do not know exactly when but probably sometime during Golden Week.
Most of our busiest travel days are during Golden week – just how it worked out.

Questions regarding travel in Japan
1. Can I activate my JR Pass upon arrival for a future date? For example I arrive on the 21st of the month but want to activate it for travel beginning May 1. Will I be able to make our train reservations at this time?
2. I am wondering if Hakone is worth a day trip from Tokyo. The reviews I have read are mixed. We will head to the Ise Peninula from Tokyo and Takayama/Shirakawa after that. Also, if we do go to Hakone it would be the Friday or Saturday before the holiday on Apr 29. Will it be insanely crowded at that time?
3. I am undecided on the length of JR Pass and whether it should be a JR Pass or a JR West Pass – certainly a 7 day probably beginning May 1. I think the Nozomi from Nagoya to Hiroshima will be worth the time time saved. Our travel around Tokyo and Kyoto will be local areas. I’ve even laid all this out on a spreadsheet for our major travel but I am unsure what to budget for on the local trips around Tokyo and Kyoto. I assumed a Suica Pass for Tokyo unless 14 day JR proves a better value. By my calculations we would have to expend $157 each in train travel around Tokyo in 7 days to justify the 14 day vs 7 day pass. Am I looking at this correctly?
4. I've received some very nice recs regarding a yakitori restaurant in Ginza,a Kobe steak restaurant in Kobe, and sushi in Tsukiji. Still looking for others - anything goes. Okonomiyaki in Hiroshima?

Thanks all!
Suzanne

Suzanne - I really don't have any comment as I haven't been to most of those places - just Tokyo and Kyoto.

I just wanted to point out that you cannot take the Nozomi train with a JR pass.....

Your trip will be wonderful, I'm sure :)

Yes you can activate the JR Pass for a future date. I think you can get your free reserved seats at that time because you have actually done the exchange. Once upon a time you could book seat res before going to Japan and you'd pay the 500 yen res fee which was refunded when you did the exchange of the voucher for the pass. But in your case you would actually have the pass when you made the res. I am sure I have done this just don't remember for certain.

That's a lot of time in Nagoya.

I think you are flying home from Osaka. Is that correct?

If flying out of Osaka I would get a 14-day JR Pass ending on May 7. If flying out of Tokyo Narita Airport I would get a 21-day JR Pass ending on the day of travel to that airport (the 14th or 15th).

Your route is Nagoya- Gero- Shirakawago (via Takayama)- Takayama- Nagoya- Miyajima

What is the 45 minutes? The time you have for sightseeing in S-go? Not enough.

A better route, imo, would be:
Nagoya- Gero- Shirakawago- Takayama- Kanazawa- Miyajima

Correction:

A better route, imo, would be:
Nagoya- Gero- Takayama- Shirakawago- Kanazawa- Miyajima

Yes, we are flying out of Osaka. The 45 minutes was the time I think Hyperdia said it would take to travel from Gero to Shirakawa-go by train.
It is a lot of nights in Nagoya, a place that does not exactly score high as a destination. However it did appear to be a midway point for our excursion down the peninsula and up to Takayama. We will also take in a baseball game (#1 on my husband's to do list), go to Kobe and Kiso Valley from there.
I appreciate the suggestion regarding the Gero, S-go, Takayama route. I wasn't sure of the best way to approach this after I took Kanazawa off our list. I saw us spending about 4 hours in Shirakawa-go then traveling to Takayama, arriving about an hour and a half before dinner at our ryokan. I have yet to find a map that shows all of these to get a lay of the land.

Ok, go here:
http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html
bookmark that.

Go to the Chubu section and click on the Takayama & Shirakawago guide. Look at the top of page 3.

Also on that webpage see other guides for Kiso Valley, Nagoya, etc.

Suzanne - On your other thread with the list of helpful websites, I saw the one for the Tokyo guide, Mr. Oka. I took a tour with him when I was in Tokyo in '04. I learned a lot and really enjoyed my time with him. I never saw anyone else mention him here.....

Thank you for your input.
Mara, it is nice to hear about someone that has experience with Mr. Oka. Perhaps we will use the services of both Junko and Mr. Oka so that we can compare and report back. Thank you.

It appears you are staying too long in Tokyo when you can visit your son in Hokkaido by flying cheap (~10,000 yen) on Air Pass like JR Pass and use JR Pass within Hokkaido. Be aware. If you use JR pass to Ise from Nagoya, you will be asked to pay ~500 yen by conductor on board due to track sharing with a private line. Naigu & Gaigu in Ise city are great places to visit in a day. Total the JR fares & days of travel and decide the length of JR pass options. It may be cheaper just to buy tickets when you want to travel or rearrange your plans, i.e. skip Gero, Nagoya, Kobe.

Thanks for your input amazinga. Actually our intinerary originally included flying to Hokkaido and spending a week there. We changed it because our son would very much like to visit warmer, more populated areas and would prefer to join us rather than vice versa. This suits me fine as well. We live in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, in the country, adjacent to a national park. Visiting the cities will truly be a change of scenery for all of us. I also lived in Japan as a teenager and look forward to seeing how it has changed.

My other major concern about this trip was the timing. I've read nothing but warnings about travel in Japan during Golden Week. This is why I have been so compulsive about ensuring we a plan regarding our visit.

Who am I kidding - I believe in planned spontaneity!

The only comments I can add are:

Kobe is much closer to Kyoto. I won't make it as a day-trip from Nagoya.

I agree that you seem to be spending lots of nights in Nagoya. While it's a convenient hub for Ise/Gero/Kiso valley, I would cut down on 29 Apr-1May bit.

4-6 May Are you planning hiking along Magome/Tsumago?

6May You may want to take note that you won't be able to use Nozomi on JR pass.

Yes - regarding the Magome/Tsumago question. I actually got the idea from "CleoB" on this forum. he/she provided a great report of their trip. I plan on doing this on the 5th.

My plan is to arrive back in Nagoya on the 4th in time for the baseball game that evening. Hiking on the 5th and then depart going south early on the 6th. I will have to reconsider Kobe.

I do know that Nozomi isn't covered by our JR pass. I considered nozomi on all of our longer legs but found it made little difference (15 minutes) with the exception of this leg where there was an hour (3 hrs vs 4 hrs)difference in travel time.

Any suggestions regarding robatayaki dining? How about Hida beef in Takayama? I have read and saved many suggestions regarding sake tastings but more are always welcome.

as mrwnrfl says yes you can activate your jr pass for a later date. I don't think you can get the reservations at the same place that activates passes though I may be wrong. You have to go to the ticket windows in the station for that.

I usually take my pass back to my hotel who has a travel agent in the lobby. I then give them my printed out hyperdia schedules with my ticket reservations highlighted.

Using the agency in my hotel is a lot easier imho to use than the reservation agents in the train stations who understand little or no English, and the service is free with your jr pass. I come back a few hours later and pick up all my reservations and am ready to go.

Aloha!

I am not sure when you say there is much time difference using Nozomi or Hikari. Hikari Railstar is as fast as Nozomi(except the new N700 model) unless it has more scheduled stops.
Have you visited http://www.japanrail.com/
It gives the detailed time table & fare for every JR trains.

Thanks HT - that is very good advice.

Regarding Nozomi - I meant for my particular trip I only considered Nozomi for what I considered to be the longer travel distances in my itinerary. I did this because I knew I would have a JR pass and the pass would not be usable for Nozomi but I was interested in considering the time savings that it could potential provide. I'm certainly no expert at reading Hyperdia tables but for the two routes/times I considered one hada time difference of 15 minutes and the other an hour. I will travel 15 minutes longer and use my JR Pass but will consider buying a Nozomi ticket and "saving" an hour's time. That is all I meant - not that there is generally no difference between the two. Sorry if I was unclear about that. I could easily be mistaken as well.

jmsvss,

It looks like there are bus services between Gero and Magome via Nakatsugawa station. I'm doing a search for my own travel planning in March for Gero/Takayama/possibly Magome loop. I'm trying to do this as I cannot find direct rail link, and would rather avoid travelling back/forth to Nagoya to make connections.

It's via a company called Nohi Bus (sp?) so I assume I won't be able to use JR pass... I'm trying to ask a Japanese colleague to decipher timetable. I'll post in this thread if I find anything that may be of use.

If you use mrwnrfl's earlier link you can take a look at page 6 for time schedules of Nohi bus from Takayama to S go
The Nohi phone numbers are also there

http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/pdf/pg-409.pdf

Aloha!

The fare for Nozomi non-reserved seating is the same as Hikari non-reserved and less than Hikari reserved seating. For this reason I have been pushing Japan Tourist organization to negotiate with JR to open up Nozomi free seating to JR Pass holders. Aside from busy Golden Week or other national holidays, I often make a seat reservation but I go to non reserved seating cars because usually I have two seats to myself. If too crowded, I can always go to my reserved seat. But so far I didn't have to. People come & go.

Hi, Suzanne -

For a real splurge in Kyoto, you might consider Misogigawa:

http://www.misogui.jp/eng/misogigawa/index.html

GREAT French kaiseki cuisine!

And while in Takayama, make sure to try the mountain vegetables and ferns in addition to Hida beef. I had a great meal there - I think it was at Suzuya. Staff at the Rickshaw Inn can advise you.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the restaurant rec, the webiste looks wonderful. How will a kaiseki meal in a restaurant differ from what we will receive in a ryokan?

Also, I looked on Hyperdia for travel between Takayama and Nakatsugawa. It is a 3hr trip and involves a couple of changes but does not go through Nagoya. I would certainly be interested if there is a shorter bus route. I found out last night that the baseball games we are interested in are at 3 pm on the 4th and 2 pm on the 5th, rather than the 6pm I planned around. So, if we can get to Nakatsugawa in a timlier fashion from Takayama it would be helpful. I am not very confident in my ability to decifer the Hyperdia tables.

I really appreciate all the help and suggestions - now if April would just get here already!

Is it worth 8000 yen to save one hour on the train? That is how much a one way ticket Nagoya-> Kobe costs.

You get reserved seats at the reserved seat office/window (midori no madoguchi) not the ticket window, exactly. It is a separate line, at least at stations like Nagoya, and shorter.

I don't understand the timing of the Kiso Valley trip and what the bball game times have to do with it.

"I don't understand the timing of the Kiso Valley trip and what the bball game times have to do with it."

Here is my thought process which could easily be flawed when travel times are taken into consideration:
We will not be lodging in the Kiso Valley, it is just a day trip. The baseball game is at 2 pm at Nagoya stadium on May 5th. So the 5th, in honor of my dear husband, will be dedicated to baseball and post baseball activities (can anyone say birro - the Elephant's Nest is near our hotel) We are leaving Takayama on the 4th. I want to leave Nagoya early on the 6th heading south. As I see it, it would make the most sense to go to Kiso Valley from Takayama enroute to Nagoya on the 4th. I am using the posting by CleoB regarding their hiking trek from Magome to Tsumago. It took them about 8 hours round trip from Nagoya. The hike itself took 3 hrs. Ideally, I would like to arrive at Nakatsugawa Sta by 11:00 at the latest...
This is probaly TMI but that is my reasoning surrounding Kiso Valley and baseball.

Thanks. I wasn't clear on your plan, but now understand that you want to leave Takayama in the morning, walk the Nakasendo that afternoon, spend the night in Nagoya. Next day, go to a yakyu game.

If you take the 7:17 AM train from Takayama then you can get to Nakatsugawa at 10:33 after two changes of train (at Mino Ota and Tajimi).

Your other option would be to go to Nagiso arriving there at 10:58 (transfer at Nagoya OR transfer at Mino Ota and Tajimi).

You can find out in Takayama if the bus is better but I bet it is not. Heading south from Takayama I am all but certain that the bus would take the road that parallels (and crosses) the rail line down a narrow river valley. There really aren't many options because of the mountains. At Mino Ota you'd take a train east(ish) to Kiso Valley and the road is probably parallel there too. I am guessing, but until you get a hold of a bus schedule I recommend planning on a train trip.

Thank you - You have truly been WONDERFUL (or is that wunfrl)!
I realize I am totally wrapped up in this trip and extremely excited and gasping for information as if it were oxygen. I appreciate your patience and time in offering advice and welcome any more that comes my way.

Someone in Tokyo found me the following bus timetable between Nakatsugawa-Magome.
N'gawa 09:40 10:20 11:10 11:50
Magome 10:08 10:48 11:38 12:18

Magome 14:45 16:00 16:40 17:30
N'gawa 15:14 16:29 17:09 17:59

He also recommended to hike from Matome to Tsumago (allegedly the other way around is mainly uphill), which is supposed to take 3-4hrs, then take a taxi back to Nakatsugawa.

Ok, so train to Nakatsugawa, bus 30 min to Magome, walk to Tsumago. Then Tsumago to Nagiso is 10 minutes by bus according to japan-guide.

At Nagiso you can get a limited express train to Nagoya. Departure times are: 14:43, 15:44, and 16:44.

Between and after those times you can get a JR local (Chuo Line) train from Nagiso to Nakatsugawa and transfer to the limited express train. The limited express train stops more often and later at Nakatsugawa than at Nagiso.

But Nagiso to Nakatsugawa on the limited express train is 12 minutes vs something like 19 minutes on the local.

Probably better to go to from Tsumago to Nagiso to Nagoya than from Tsumago by bus to Nakatsugawa to Nagoya.

see this: http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6079.html

Well, I came back from my Kiso/Takayama trip 2weeks ago and here are my findings.

1) Nagoya-Nakatsugawa was an easy ride on limited express. Nakatsugawa-Magome was similarly easy to get to on a local bus. Unfortunately, I totally misjudged the weather--it was raining relatively hard, which made the idea of hiking along old paths rather impractical. Also I saw lots of snow along the path. In the end, I ended up just walkig a bit of Magome, caught the bus to Tsumago, then walked a bit around Tsumago. On a weekday in mid-March, it was still off-season and many shops and restaurants were closed. A stall at Magome selling some kind of vegetable-filled flat dumpling saved me from cold and hunger! I ended up taking a taxi from Tsumago to Nagiso, JR backed to Nagoya before connecting to a separate train to Gero/Takayama.

2) I very much enjoyed Gero onsen, especially after a rather miserable rainy day. Stayed at Suimeikan, breakfast only option but ended up eating at the ryokan's modern Japanese restaurant. It's a big place, with three different baths to try. Gero town is quite small, but I enjoyed various "foot baths" dotted around downtown. Gassho house museum nearby was too commercial for my taste. Would probably have been better to try the real thing at S'go.

3) Gero to Takayama was an easy link. Takayama seems to be a popular destination, and I couldn't get a reserved seat on the way back. In the end, I manage to find an empty seat on unreserved car. I think there are still one or two smoking cars, so beware.

4) While I found historic downtown in Takayama to be a tad too commercialised, I enjoyed sake brewers. Several traditional houses open to public were rather dissapointing--very little information for JPY500charges. The old shogunate government office can also use more english explanation. Nothing to do with traditional Japanese culture, but I enjoyed Takayama Museum with excellent collection of Art Deco and Art Nouveau glassworks.

London - Thanks for reporting back on your trip around Takayama/Kiso Valley. How unfortunate to have such miserable weather!
Our time in that area will be early May. Perhaps a "Plan B" would be on order.

I haven't monitoed this thread in a few weeks. I am getting ready to purchase my rail pass (wish I had done it when the exchange rate was better) and in reviewing I have a question. I thought the JR Rail Pass would not cover, at all, our trip from Tokyo to Toba. Amazinga indicated there would be a 500Y surcharge for JR Pass holders. Does anyone know how this works? It will make a difference on the pass I purchase. I did not consider the cost of the rail travel to Toba when calculating my with pass vs without pass rail cost.

Thanks everyone!

From Tokyo to Toba, your JR pass will cover the shinkansen portion to Nagoya. Then you change to Kintetsu line, which you will need to pay for, ¥2950.

Is that Y2950 both ways? If so it seems more economical to purchase a Kintetsu rail pass (Y3500 I think). Does anyone have experience with this pass. We will travel to and from Toba and probably a bus as well to the shrines and such.