teychui

Hi all,

We are a family of 4 (with 2 children 8 and 10), and we are arriving in Kansai Airport at 6:40pm, and we have 11 days(!) to sample Japan. I based my itinerary off the one happychappy made here http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...s-in-japan.cfm , and budgetinnjp.com/modelplan.htm

1. I'm seeking advice whether the return leg of the trip (from Tokyo to Kansai airport) is reasonable. Are the trains on time, and am I likely to miss the 2 connections?

2. Also, whether there are particular things that I ought to do. (I like art, my wife likes food, the kids like TV).

3. I gather that the Kansai Thru Pass is not good value, and I should just pay my tickets as needed on 20th and 21st.

4. Any advice about lugging around bags on 28th and whether we could achieve any meaningful activity that day.

5. I haven't fleshed out my 3 days in Tokyo. Would appreciate any ideas.

Purchase 2-day JR West pass
18th Sep Arrive Kansai - travel directly to Kyoto.
19th Sep Himeji
20th Sep Kinkakuji, Ryoanji, Imperial Palace, Kiyomizu, Sannenzaka, Ninenzaka, Yasaka, Gion
21st Sep Toji, Nijo, Arishiyama

Activate 7-day JR pass
22nd Hiroshima
23rd Heian Shrine, Nanzenji, Ginkakuji, JR to Takayama
24th Sight-seeing in Takayam
25th Early morning JR to Tokyo, Meiji-Shrine, Harajuku
26th Fish Market, Shibuya
27th ?
28th Tokyo-Kansai (9pm flight)

I note that Takayama is very quiet at night, and some travellers said it was difficult to find places to eat. Should I book for meals in the hotel instead?

hawaiiantraveler

1. Trains are on time, you can set your watch by them. Leave early enough and should be no problem. See www.hyperdia.com for train schedules.

2. See attractions sections:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2158.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2164.html

3. Yes you are correct. If it were me, and I know it is not, with a family of four arriving at KIX and traveling on to Kyoto, I would call these people and make a reservation to save time and hassle.

http://www.mk-group.co.jp/english/shuttle/index.html

4. Yes, use the takuhaibin service to send your bags from hotel to hotel. Hardly anyone takes any luggage on the trains. See here for detailed information on your luggage.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2274.html

5. See answer to number 2

Regarding Takayama see here:

http://www.hida.jp/english/index.htm

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e5900.html

Come back with more specific questions after you go thru this.

Aloha!

teychui

Thank you so much!

Here's a fleshed out itinerary.

Purchase 2-day JR West pass (Unfortunately, I've already committed the purchase. Readers should pay heed to
hawaiiantraveler about using a shuttle instead)

18th Sep Arrive Kansai 1840hrs - travel directly to Kyoto via JR Haruka Express
19th Sep Kobe - Harborland, then Himeji - Himeji Castle
20th Sep Kinkakuji, Ryoanji, Imperial Palace, Kiyomizu, Sannenzaka, Ninenzaka, Yasaka, Gion
21st Sep Toji, Nijo, Arishiyama

Activate 7-day JR pass
22nd Hiroshima - via JR Hikari 7:49am - Peace Memorial Park, Atomic Bomb Dome - Miyajima 1 hr each way
23rd Heian Shrine, Nanzenji, Ginkakuji, JR to Takayama
- Higashiyama Walking Course, Old Town, Hachiman Shrine

24th Takayama morning markets - JR to Nagoya.
25th Early morning JR to Tokyo, Meiji-Shrine, Harajuku - Shinjuku
26th Asakusa, Sensoji Temple, boat - Hama Rikyu, Yurikamome train - Odaiba
27th Shimbashi Fish Market, Imperial Palace, East Gardens. Subway Hanzomon -Shibuya. Yamanote - Shinjuku
28th Tokyo-Kansai (9pm flight)

Further questions:
1. When should one book seats on JR? Can the operators deal with English-speakers?
2. Is it safe to assume I'll be able to get local English tourist maps when I arrive?

citywalks

With an art lover in the family and kids, you'll want to spend a good part of one day in Ueno Park in Tokyo. It has a pond, a zoo, numerous temples and good museums. Take JR Yamanote line to Ueno station and take Park Exit. Once in the park, you'll see a map with directions to all the sites.

hawaiiantraveler

1. You can book your reservations when you activate your JR pass. Most JR offices in larger stations will have an English speaker.

2. No, only larger stations will have anything in English. Most TI centers in small towns will only have info in Japanese and no English speakers

Aloha!

kja

I thought that the the book "Japan Solo" had very good maps.

teychui

Thank you all.

puttakka

I hihgly recommend the Berlitz Japanese Phrasebook. You can use it to make train reservations. Even staffers who don't speak English will be able to understand your Berlitz Japanese or find someone to help you. They are extremely helpful that way,

BigRuss

Why do you have two connections on the last train leg? You just need a Shinkansen to Shin-Osaka and the KIX train to the airport.

The average deviation of a Shinkansen train from its schedule is 36 seconds PER YEAR. When you go back to Kansai, you take the Hikari 517 from Shinagawa or Tokyo station (whichever is closer to you), you'll get to Shin-Osaka at 5:30 pm, then you get the Haruka 47 at 5:45 pm to KIX.

shandy

Your itinerary looks pretty good, but you are being overly ambitious as to how many sights you think you will fit in on some days.

The 20 September is heavy especially if you are relying on public transport. Also, your trip to Arashiyama the next day. Are you intending to do the Sagano train ride and boat trip there (the kids will love both of these). If so, when we did it least year it took us a whole day in itself (also doing the bamboo walk at Arashiyama).

Likewise on your trip to Takayama, you need to allow about three hours just to do the Higashiyama Walking Course. Presumably you aren't leaving Kyoto until lunchtime if you are intending to fit in three temples before you go.

Your side trip to Hiroshima will also be a very long day, especially with fitting in Miyajima as well. Have you checked tide times to see if the Torii will be "floating" on the water and not just sitting in the middle of the mud flats.

You know your children best, but I would be concerned that there is virtually no down time in your itinerary at all. It is very fast paced even for adults, much less children. You have a lot of temples and I suspect the children will get "templed out".

By the way, we found the boat ride from Hara Rikyu gardens in fact rather boring and time consuming.

You will be travelling at exactly the same time of year as we did last year. The weather was pretty good for the most part so hopefully will be you. I hope you realise that you will be too early for the autumn leaves but it is beautiful anyway We only saw them in October at the end of our trip when we up in the alps.

shandy

It seems a bit silly putting this in since I have been saying that I think you are trying to fit in to many sites, but your kids would probably love going to Nara and feeding all the deer. I had assumed that the deer were just all in a park but they are wandering all over the town and just love to be handfed. It was absolutely delightful. You would need to allow half a day.

lcuy

I'm a bit confused why you seem to be jumping around.

Why stop in Kyoto for one night, then go to Kobe and Himeji the next day? Much easier and more direct would be to go all the way to Kobe the first night, then continue south to Himeji, Hiroshima & Miyajima. Once there, then turn back north and go back to Kyoto, Takayama, and Tokyo. Or was it something to do with the JR pass?

I would go directly from Hiroshima to Tokyo, then do Takayama and Kyoto at the end so you just have the short trip to Kansai on the last day.

We loved Takayama when our kids were about the same age as yours, but I don't see the float museum, market home tour, and the village of old farm homes, on your list. Those are the places we liked. The walking tour was too hilly, too long for the kids. We walked up to one temple, then callled it quits. If you guys are bicycle riders, Takayama is a fun place to rent bikes, too.

Much as I dislike pushy deer, Nara was fun for a short visit from Kyoto too.

In Kyoto, I would leave off the Imperial palace. Nijijo is way more interesting for kids (and to me too!) when you get to Kyoto make sure your find the Tourist info center, as they will have lists of activities. We once went to a small temple for their firefly celebration. Wonderful neighborhood festival, and it was not on any other published lists of activities.

Remember, in your planning, that japan is such a "foreign" place that you don't need to see all the sights. Hanging out with the school kids who want to interview you and practice their English on the grounds of the Golden Pavillion in Kyoto can be worth crossing off another shrine or temple.

The bottom floors of a Departo can be a huge adventure at lunchtime, and tasty too. Likewise the stationary floor.

You will often be more impressed with the tiny neighborhood shrines than the ones that will take an hour of commuting on the bus.

I know you'll have a fabulous time. I consider Japan one of the most family friendly countries in the world.

teychui

We'll be staying 5 nights in Kyoto, so we are hoping to hop
around on the train and see the towns nearby.

@shandy. Thanks for tip about Sagano Train and Ferry ride. Will research that.

I'm having second thoughts about Miyajima. It might be a little too taxing. Thanks @lcuy for the tip about tide times. 23:15 is a little too late!

Thank you for tip about Ninijo in Kyoto and float museum in Takayama. I must have missed that in my research.

@BigRuss: The 36 second factoid is amazing. I'll share that with the family in the morning.

shandy

Teychui, I will top my trip report on Japan for you so that you can read through the section on the train and boat trip out near Arashiyama to see if you like it. We also went to Takayama so you might like to browse through that as well.

The trip report is fairly long but I listed each section separately under the name of the town so you should be able to fairly quickly find any section you want.

The link is http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...ough-japan.cfm

kja

"I'm having second thoughts about Miyajima. It might be a little too taxing."

It depends on whether you are planning to stay there overnight or just visit briefly. I stayed overnight and truly enjoyed it, particularly after the long emotional day in Hiroshima.

Hope that helps!

Mirachan

Miyajima and Takayama were two of my favourite parts of my trip to Japan. That said, we spent an evening, a night, and most of the next day in Miyajima, so we got to walk out to the tori while the tide was low and see it floating when the tide was high, as well as explore the shrine, see the deer, and take the funicular up Mt. Misen. (AMAZING views from up there)

When we were in Takayama, the folk museum was closed for apparently no reason. All the Japanese people we mentioned this to seemed shocked, so I assume it was a freak occurrence. It looked very cool. Instead we just wandered around the old town, hit the morning market, and went on an absolutely exhausting bike ride up into the mountains (you must be fit) to some incredible waterfalls. I'll certainly never forget that.

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Getting where you're going - maps are usually only in Japanese. However, everything is really visual over there, so you can get a long way by using pictures (many maps are illustrated). I don't know enough Japanese to talk about it, so I spent a lot of mental energy comparing a set of kanji from one piece of paper to a set of kanji on a map or something else. One suggestion I can give you is to take pictures of signs that list place names in kanji and in romaji (English letters) so that you can refer back to it later if you are confused, or show a Japanese person if you need to. We met a lot of nice people who tried very hard to help us even when there was a huge language barrier.

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Trains: The trains (and subways) are usually very punctual, especially bullet trains. I have about 40 train tickets from my three weeks in Japan, and the whole time we had exactly one problem - the Hida Wideview to Takayama broke down and we were stuck there for about two hours. I think this is very unusual, however, I was glad that all we had planned to do that evening was get into our hotel.

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Whoaaa the 20th. We weren't overly impressed with Kyoto - we felt like it had a bit of everything, but that we saw better versions of everything in Kyoto elsewhere, if that makes sense. What frustrated us most in Kyoto was how long it took to get anywhere. I would be selective about the sights I tried to do there, because it took about 40 minutes to get to and from each site. We went to Kinkakuji, Gion, Kiyomizu, Fushimi Inari, and Ginkakuji... off the top of my head I think that was about it... and we were there for three nights/two full days.
- Kinkakuji is pretty and famous, but there's nothing to do there except stare at the one pavilion and get your picture. - Kiyomizu was our favourite - there were a lot of different views and things to do (it almost felt like a science museum in that regard - there is the weight you can try to lift, the stones you have to try to make your way to with your eyes closed to guarantee success in love, the sacred water you can drink, etc).
- Gion The only thing we did in Gion was see a procession at the tail end of the Matsuri Gion festival, which was nice. - Ginkakuji was awful. It was under construction (this was a month and a half ago, so it probably still is) and isn't even covered in silver. The only thing going for it is it's age.
- Fushimi Inari I didn't see on your itinerary. It's the place with the thousands of red tori (gate things) that form a tunnel and then line a path up a mountainside. This was awesome, definitely worth doing, though a bit harder to get to than the others.

I'm a bit worried about you guys getting stressed out trying to do everything. It might be good to think about your priorities, and have a back up plan consisting of those things you'll regret forever if you don't get done, that you can go back to if things get too hectic.

My friend and I thought it was great fun trying to get everywhere and figure things out. However, the same mistakes we found amusing and educational would have been infuriating and upsetting had we had more hectic schedules and less wiggle room. We were able to lean back, relax, and, if the worst happened and we missed a train or something, we simply walked around where we were a bit more - talked to people, tried a new snack - experienced the foreignness of Japan.

Good luck and have fun!

Mirachan

In case I didn't explain clearly, I mean that it takes 40 minutes to get TO most things in Kyoto, and then 40 minutes to get back to the main station. So you can go ahead and budget a solid two hours to do any one of the things you are planning to do.

Also, this might not be as troublesome if you are a family with kids, but Japan shuts down pretty early. Most tourist things close at 5. Even starting early, by our last attraction of the day we usually just barely made it.

mrwunrfl

For 9/22 hyperdia shows that there is a Hikari 491 departs Kyoto at 7:16 and Hikari 493 departs at 8:02. Where did you find the 7:49 departure?

On the 24th, why are you stopping in Nagoya? I suppose to get a better hotel rate than Tokyo? Where are you staying? The last Ltd Exp train from Takayama gets to Nagoya in time to catch a Hikari to Tokyo.

Is it really true that unused 2-day Kansai West passes can't be refunded?

You could ship luggage to Kansai Airport on the 23rd from Kyoto or 24-25th from Takayama (or both). Charges to store at airport are per bag.

KimJapan

These places might interest you.

http://www.roketsu.com/
http://www.shibori.jp/english.htm

teychui

@KimJapan thanks for that! A colleague (who is a fabric geek) is spending a week doing exactly that.

@mrwunrfl I was told Takayama is a must-visit because of the windy rail trip. But it is only a small town. Going to Nagoya also makes the trip to Tokyo a little shorter, and get in a bit of sightseeing. I've booked a hostel at Nagoya. There is a 25% cancellation fees for unused Rail passes in Australia. Thank very much for double-checking Hyperdia for me. I must have punched in something else!

@MiraChan your advice is much appreciated. I shall have to adjust my expectations.

This is so exciting. Thank you all!