Tim_and_Liz

If we are going to Tong's "Secret Place" then should we also go to Tonle Sap? Are they similar or different? Anyone been to both?

We will have about 3 days in SR, arriving evening on a Monday and departing Thursday evening.

This is what I am thinking for an itinerary (for next March!):

Tuesday: Sunrise at Angkor Wat, Angkor Thom, Ta Prohm... relax at hotel (de la Paix) during hot hours... Afternoon either temples or Tonle Sap tour

Wednesday: All day tour of Beng Mealea and Banteay Srey (could we fit in a school visit?)

Thursday: Morning balloon ride, more temples? Landmine museum? Visit Artisans D'Angkor? (Flight to BKK departs at 8:05pm)

We do not like heat (we live in Minnesota and have hot and humid summers but do not prefer that weather) so I want to rest some time. Also worried about getting "templed out" and do not want to be too rushed.

Any suggestions?

PS Happy Mother's Day to all you moms!

Elizabeth_S

Hi Liz - we did both in January of this year.......if I had to choose between the 2 I'd pick Tong's tour and especially since you only have 3 days in SR.

I think I posted the Siem Reap link to our blog before - lots of pictures of the Tonle Sap tour and below is our Bangkok blog with lots of pix of Tong's secret place!

Re your SR itinerary - are you thinking of touring Angkor Wat, Angkor Thom and Ta Prohm all in one morning? If so that's a lot of touring even if you start at sunrise.

We did the following schedule (in January when it wasn't as hot as March will be)

Day One

Angkor Wat from 7:30am to 11:00 with Dara Ly - we had a thorough tour and lots of photo ops - we were leaving as the crowds were building up.

Angkor Thom from approx 2:30 - 5:30 - again a thorough tour - although it was crowded Dara always seemed to lead us away from the crowds.

Day Two

We moved our start time to 7am for cooler walking - on the drive to Banteay Srey we also stopped at Pre Rup and after the temple we stopped at several small villages - that was very interesting with Dara again as our guide. Stopped at Artisans D'Angkor on the way back to the hotel arrived at about 11:30am.

Afternoon of Day 2 my husband went to a temple but I don't know which one - I had a horrible cold so I stayed at the hotel.

Day 3

We were with Ponheary this day - we went to Roluos temples in the morning (same approx timing as Day two) and Ta Prohm in the afternoon - Ta Prohm was breathtaking.

Day 4

We were pretty much the full day on the Tonle Sap tour - I wouldn't recommend doing a half day tour as I don't think there's enough time to get to the further villages.

Hope that helps - happy to answer any questions.

Elizabeth_S

Oops - here's the link to the Bangkok portion of the blog

http://lizandrichardsa.typepad.com/2...kok/index.html

Tim_and_Liz

Thanks, Elizabeth!

I am just dying to spend all of our time in Cambodia now... I think I've figured out how to add an extra 3/4 of a day, so we would arrive early Monday morning. We could visit either Angkor Wat or Angkor Thom that day instead of Tuesday. I hope to book Ponheary or her brother for our guide, but I don't want to email them until I know for sure what we're doing with flights.

We will definitely be going to the Secret Place with Tong, because my parents will be with us in BKK and really wish to go... I am not sure if Tonle Sap is different enough for Tim and I to go there or if it is somewhat similar to where we'll go with Tong? What do you think?

How about this revised itinerary:

Monday afternoon: Angkor Wat or Angkor Thom (and possibly Balloon Ride) at sunset

Tuesday: Repeat your Day 2: Banteay Srey, Pre Rup, (add Beng Mealea if time), and Artisans de Angkor

Wednesday: Angkor Wat or Angkor Thom; Ta Prohm

Thursday: Tonle Sap day tour before flying out at 8pm (do you think that is possible and/or risky?)

I don't see anything about the Rolous temples in your blog. Did I miss them? How were they relative to the other temples?

Also I see from your blog that you went to the Grand Palace and the Secret Place in one day with Tong. Do you remember what time you started and ended that day? (I feel it's too early to bother Tong with these questions, but my parents must meet their cruise ship the night of our second day with her and my mom is curious.) Do you think Wat Pho could be fit in that day, or too much?

I really appreciate your help. I know it's early to be planning, but Tim's working, and the weather is not-so-nice, so this is how I am entertaining myself today

Kathie

As you have a relatively short time in Siem Reap, why not play it by ear as to what you want to do your last day. If you are templed out, then go to Tonele Sap. If not, visit more temples. We were in Siem Reap for 6 days, and we visited 26 temples in that time. Some temples are small, others are huge (like Angkor Wat). We did take half a day for Tonele Sap, and we visited the wat on the hill overlooking the lake at sunrise before going out on the lake.

althom1122

There is plenty of time for the Tonle Sap tour if your flight isn't till 8 p.m. That's what we did on our last day (flight time about the same as yours) - and we also stopped at Artisans that day. Didn't do a full day at Tonle Sap, though, so probably didn't see as much as Liz. We, too, used Dara (and really enjoyed him).

Tim_and_Liz

Thanks Kathie and althom.

I am a detailed (obsessive?) planner, but when we are traveling, I am surprisingly go-with-the-flow! I like to read about every possible thing we could do, so I know what I am missing... or at least what we need to see on our next trip.

I like Kathie's idea. I will plan on going to Tonle Sap our last day but we can change course and see more temples if we wish.

Elizabeth_S

Hi Liz - a few answers/comments to some (but not all) of your questions - will reply more tomorrow.

- regarding the differences between Tong's fishing village and Tonle Sap - will answer that in more detail tomorrow

- Re Rolous temples - there are one or two shots - we did enjoy them very much as they were quite different but have to admit to approaching maximum temple state at that point (although the visit to Ta Prohm that afternoon snapped us back to attention! As mentioned we both had colds - my was in full force and Richard was getting over his and it was very hot....so maybe that dampened our enthusiasm for Rolous)

Re the day with Tong at the Grand Palace and the Fishing Village - it was a fairly late start (!!!!) at 8:30am (considering the previous day with Tong was 6:30am!!) - she picked us up at our hotel and we first went to the City Pillar Shrine (it was very lovely) then the Grand Palace......and then drove to the fishing village (all the timing is dependent on the tides - Tong was in regular contact via cell with Reed about the best time for our arrival).......we got back to the hotel about 7:30 that evening.

Re your question regarding Wat Pho that day - you could substitute it for the City Pillar Shrine .........

Liz - you sound just like me - I'm happiest planning our trips (obsessing over everything) and then just going with it upon arrival!

Will answer you more fully about the differences between the Tong fishing village and Tonle Sap tomorrow ......

Best

Liz (too)

Kathie

Tim and Liz, I don't know if I've recommended my favorite book for preparing for Angkor - Dawn Rooney's book, entitled Angkor (the newest edition has a longer subtitle). It's a fairly new edition and is available at Amazon. She gives a number of sample itineraries for your consideration.

We did visit the Roulous group. You can see our Angkor photos at www.marlandc.com The photos may help you with your planning.

Tim_and_Liz

Liz_S- Thanks for the info! All of your comments are very , very helpful. I am sorry you had colds while in SR, but you seem to have enjoyed yourselves nonetheless. And I love your description, "approaching maximum temple state"! I look forward to your comments tomorrow or when you have time to reply again.

Thanks, Kathie! I will check out the book and the website.

althom1122 (Karen, correct?)- Do you have a link to a trip report? I tried searching, and only found your pre-trip report (which is absolutely hilarious and interesting-- love your writing style!)

Liz

Elizabeth_S

I second Kathie's recommendation for the Dawn Rooney's book (in fact it was Kathie who recommended it to me)........I found it helpful in two ways....

1) to get a rough idea of what interested us so I could have a meaningful planning conversation with Dara

2) I really enjoy reading it now that we're home - it reinforces what we saw

Regarding the difference between Tong's fishing village tour and Tonle Sap....they're really very different days/experiences......following attempts to describe each of them

Tong's Secret Fishing Village

It's about a 90 minute drive out of Bangkok to the river delta.......not a terribly attractive drive - just like any big city.

We arrived at Reed's house - he's a most interesting entrepreneur who is working with Tong (and likely other guides). His house backs onto a canal on the estuary. Here you board his longtail boat and the adventure commences!

First we puttered out to visit a conservation area - where we fed the macaque monkeys - Tong and Reed had brought food (bananas/watermelon/etc) and we fed the macaques - it was quite amazing........(actually the most interesting thing was the mud skippers - the fish that can exist above water - they were everywhere). We spent about 45 minutes in the conservation area.

Then Reed picked up a bit of steam and we went out further into the river delta where the oyster and mussel beds are.....passing by other "farms" where the farmers were up to the necks in water, harvesting shrimp and other seafood. It was a remarkable sight - "farms" clearly marked out but all under water......and stilt houses dotted all around.

We did the grand tour all around the oyster and mussel farms and then returned to a stilt house owned by Reed where we had lunch. Reed has built the house specifically for tourists - no one lives there - it has lovely wide balconies and a western lavatory.....and the lunch was delicious. We laughed like crazy with Tong and Reed (she was translating all along) and had a great time.

When we finished lunch it was a short 15 minute or so ride back to Reed's house and then about 2 hours driving back to Bangkok - traffic was bad.

I think you mentioned your inlaws might be going directly to the airport at the end of that day - you want to be sure to factor in rush hour traffic.

Overall comments re the day - it was a very thought provoking, fascinating look at a lifestyle that is quickly passing - not so much a village but a series of farms and stilt houses that just happen to be on the water. Reed is a very interesting individual and it was one of the highlights of our trip.

Tonle Sap Day

We left Siem Reap about 9am with Ponheary and Hong, our delightful driver.

It was about a 40 minute drive to the village where we picked up our boat to go to the fishing village of Kompong Phluk..............Ponheary arranged the private boat (it could probably seat about 20 but it was just us).

This village (if you could even call it that) was very distressing........ living conditions were terrible, water quality was frightening...it was the first experience we could say that was 3rd world......

We boarded the boat Ponheary had for us and set off onto the lake. A few days earlier when we were scoping out our trip with Ponheary we had planned to go to the Bird Sanctuary but she learned it was closed the day we were planning to visit Tonle Sap. (you might want to consider a trip to the Bird Sanctuary).......so Ponheary offered the alternative of lunch at a typical fishing village.

Elizabeth_S

I just lost a lot of information I had posted - I guess I found out the hard way there's a limit to the size of a single posting............will keep going on the Tonle Sap visit shortly...once I recreate everything I have already written!

Rats!

Elizabeth_S

Continuation of Tonle Sap trip

The boat set out down the Lake - first stopping at one of the floating bar/restaurant/crocodile farms. Yes, a new combination for us too! We had a look at the crocs but carried on pretty quickly - on our return these bars were filling up with large groups of tourists (croc food?)

We headed down the lake for about an hour - staying relatively close to shore. We passed fishermen in boats or in the water and saw lots of bird activity.

Then we turned into the mangrove forest and arrived at the village of Kompong Phluk - we were there in the dry season so the houses were 20 feet in the air and there were streets to walk down (in the rainy season many villagers leave the village and live on the lake in temporary houses) ... here's a link to a website about the village

http://www.geocities.com/kompong_phl...s/friends.html

The village (and extended area) has a population of about 3,000 (we think) - it has a temple and a beautiful racing canoe - after a walk around town we boarded a smaller boat to take us to our luncheon location......which was about a 5 minute paddle further upstream.

Lunch was delicious (lots of photos on the blog) and afterwards we went further upstream to explore more of the village. Then we switched back to our original boat and returned to the Chong Kneas port (one hour) and then drove back to SR (approx 30 minutes)....all told we were gone about 5 or 6 hours as I recall.

It was a different experience than the Thai fishing village for several reasons - in Thailand we explored the conservation area by boat, feeding the macaques (it would have been similar, I expect, had the Bird Sanctuary been open on Tonle Sap); in Thailand there isn't village per se to explore - the experience is pretty much all from the water.

But the major difference is the relative economic status of the areas. As mentioned, the first town outside of SR (Chong Kneas) is extremely poor and the fishing village is still developing.

While the fishing technique in the Thai/Tong visit is very labour intensive and appears old fashioned to us, the experience is much more first world than third world...........I've struggled to capture that description.............hope that helps.

Cookiew

Here's my quick two cents on the Artisans D'Angkor- there are two locations for this. One is in town and has the large store plus the demonstrations on stone and wood carvings plus some silk screening. The out of town location (about 40 minutes by tuk-tuk, well worth the trip) is at a silk farm and including the store and a tiny cafe, and demonstrates weaving and spinning. Both locations are wonderful, shaded with lots of vegetation and give you an opportunity to directly contribute to the economy and support the training the youth get in learning these handcraft skills. When you get there, someone will approach you to offer you a tour which we did at the rural location and our tour guide was wonderful- spoke good English, very low key approach. We did tip him but it didn't seem to be expected. This is one of very few places in SR where you can get really excellent quality items to take home and again, you are supporting the local economy directly when you buy something. Enjoy!

travelduo

Elizabeth, when you saw the mudskippers, did Tong scream, 'fish with feet, fish with feet!' ? That made us laugh so hard as she screamed that!

Elizabeth_S

travelduo - yes - another on our list of "Tong-isms"!!!

Tim_and_Liz

Wow, Liz, thank you so much for your detailed explanation of both day trips... I really appreciate it! I hate it when I lose something I've typed (happened to me with an email today) so thanks for rewriting it. Your description of the trip with Tong is exactly how I've imagined it given the trip reports I've read and the photos I've seen (yours and Bob's). But I didn't have a good feel for what the Tonle Sap trip would be like. I did enjoy your photos of Tonle Sap as well. (For those who haven't yet seen Liz's blog... check it out!)


Cookiew- I have looked at the Artisans website and it looks like a great organization... plus their products are very much our style and we will probably purchase quite a few items there!

Does anyone know if it is possible to ship items home from Artisans d Angkor? I am concerned about luggage weight limits...

If/when Tong starts screaming "fish with feet!" I will definitely think of both travelduo and Liz S!

Thanks again,
Liz

travelduo

Hey Elizabeth, I just saw all your pics and noticed that you got to see the white monkey!!!! We looked for him for 45 mins and never saw him. It was also funny to see reed in the exact same camo jacket that he had on when we went with him!!!
When tong's daughter pear and our son parker get old enough we are going to have them go out on a date. thats what tong keeps telling us, and when she emails us she always asks about our son first!!!

Cookiew

I seem to remember that the Artisan's would ship items for you but keep in mind that you can buy some small, light weight items to pack such as clothing, khramas, small wood carvings, etc. What I did was pack clothing that I later left behind for the staff at the guest house I stayed at (brought lightweight cotton end-of-season-on-sale clothes prior to my trip)so once I emptied out my suitcase of my clothes, I had room for a few gifts from the Artisans D'Angkor without having to carry extra luggage. The staff at the guest house were very grateful for the clean clothing donations as the wonderful people of Siem Reap are very, very poor.

Tim_and_Liz

Just wanted to top this to say thanks again to Liz S. for her comments. I have just made contact with Ponheary for our trip, and we will be going to Tonle Sap. We will also be visiting the Secret Place with Tong and my parents.
Thanks again-- I am currently re-reading your blog!
Liz