Mara

mrwunrfl - I think I was looking at the route too late in the evening. True it isn't that bad - I have done much more complicated transfers. And ShelleyK could send her luggage from Tokyo to Takayama and just take a small bag to Nikko.

However, I don't think staying overnight at Nikko would add anything of value, imo as nothing much, I don't think, will be open at night - tourist sites that is. When I stayed over two nights, I didn't leave until around 1 pm of the last day as I was going to Tokyo and went to Toshogu that morning. ShelleyK would need to leave early in the am to make her transfer to Takayama.....just my opinion obviously.

mrwunrfl

Yep, more to do in Tokyo at night than in Nikko.

Mara, you spent a full day and a morning in Nikko. Would you agree with saying "Nikko wo minakereba 'kekko' to iu na" or not?

Mara

はい(Yes)、mrwunrfl　さん(san).....lol.....I actually stayed two nights ( one full and two half days) and didn't get past Lake Chuzenji.....there is quite a bit to see there and as kalihiwai2 said on the other Japan trip thread it was a theme trip - Tokugawa/Edo period history.....

kja

> I don't think staying overnight at Nikko would add anything of value

When I visited, I found two specific advantages to an overnight in Nikko:

1) I was able to start visiting it as soon as I got up the next day. I'm not an early morning person, so that was, for me, a real advantage. I couldn't have seen everything I wanted to see in the area if I had started the day in Tokyo.

2) I was on a decidedly limited budget when I traveled, and I was able to stay in a place in Nikko that was much nicer than anything I identified at a similar price in Tokyo.

hawaiiantraveler

We spent two nights in Nikko and thought it "magnificent" as the saying goes......especially the temples and Chuzenji-ko. Also allowed us enough time to see the sights and not have to rush.

Aloha!

bwilliamfl49

We are in Japan now. We just spent 3 days in Tokyo and are now spending time with relatives close to Iwakuni. We plan to spend 3 more days on our way out. My favorite thing we did was go to the fish market and watch the auction of these giant tuna and other fish. You have to be at the visitors office at 4:30am or you might not get a spot. Only 120 people are allowed each day. The trains don't start until 5:00am so we had to take a taxi about 7 miles at the bargain price of ¥4640. After the auction we ate at this little diner in the market area with the locals. We did it when we got there while we were still on Florida time. Couldn't wear the shorts I brought as it was only 39F degrees outside. Just a thought, don't know how adventurist you are.

shelleyk

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and input. I really appreciate all of the helpful advice you have generously provided. It has given me a lot to think about. At this point in the tweaking of my itinerary, I am leaning toward cutting a night (my 5th night) in Tokyo in favor of spending that night in Matsumoto.

Our day would look something like this: In the morning, we would take an early train to Nikko, spend the day there, and then instead of returning to Tokyo, we would take a 5:30PM train which would get us into Matsumoto at 10 PM. We'd spend the night near the train station, see the castle and environs the next morning, and move on to Takayama in the afternooon. The train ride will require 4.5 hours and 3 changes of trains, but I think we can do this, and I think I would prefer that to returning to Tokyo that night, only to have to get up very early the next morning to get an 8am train to Matsumoto,

mrwunrfl

Or leave Nikko at 4:43, arrive Matsumoto 8:30PM, less than 4 hours and just in time for dinner. Only 2 train changes on the trip to Takayama.

kja

> Or leave Nikko at 4:43

Could be a good idea, or - depending on what you want to see and experience in Nikko - could leave you with less time that you might want there. Is spending the prior night in Nikko an option?

shelleyk

mrwunrfl-I checked hyperdia and did not see a train leaving for Matsumoto that leaves at 4:43 and gets in at 8:30. Could you please check again and let me know if you find it? That would be doable because we are traveling in Nov. and all of the sites in Nikko close at 4PM with the last entrance at 3:30, so it's not as if we could see anything additional if we stayed beyond 4PM.

kja-Going to Nikko the night before is an option as there is a 5:08 train that gets in at 6;48. Leaving Tokyo that night would put us outside our 7 day JR pass, but I could just pay the one way fare to Nikko which is about 5500Y. My main concern is that it would necessitate a change to a new hotel two nights in a row (Nikko and the Matsumoto) I wouldn't mind this if there were a hotel at Nikko station, but I don't think I would want to try to find anything away from the station in the dark. Do you know of a hotel at the station?

As far as what we want to see in Nikko, I would be happy to see the 3 main temples and shrines that are on the combination ticket. I have a concerns about Toshugu Shrine main gate being covered in scaffolding in Nov., and this actually was causing me to reconsider going to Nikko at all. The project on the gate begins in the spring, so I thought I would ask for feedback on how that is impacting people's experiences, as I get closer to Nov.

Thank you both for your thoughtful ides.

hawaiiantraveler

http://tinyurl.com/c4lsu4o

remember to use the winter dates like Feb rather than Sept for more accurate times as the winter train schedules have not yet been released by JR. Also filter out the private line trains to avoid confusing schedules with Tobu trains involved. Taxi's are always there at a train station when the train arrives big town or(especially)small in Japan.

Aloha!

hawaiiantraveler

real small towns may necessitate a small wait till the taxi returns from a fare. Outside JR Nikko is a covered taxi stand just for that purpose IIRC.

Aloha!

Mara

http://tinyurl.com/c3o73jn

I re-created that 4:43 train schedule that mrwunfrl found above and made a link to the hyperdia page...hope that helps....

MinnBeef

A slightly off-topic question. Where do I find the DEFINITIVE Japan train schedule (routes, departure/arrival times, etc)? Is that under the Japanguide link?

hawaiiantraveler

Mara, yes different starting times will bring up different schedules but should only be used as an estimated time as they will be traveling in November 2013 whose schedules are yet to be published.

MinnBeef, no, you will find them under the JR company that handles the routes you need such as JR East and JR West or JR Kyushu, etc.

http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/timetables/index.html

http://www.westjr.co.jp/global/en/tr...ion/timetable/

http://www.jrkyushu.co.jp/english/ti...ime_table.html

http://www2.jrhokkaido.co.jp/global/...ble/index.html

Aloha!

hawaiiantraveler

http://www.jr-shikoku.co.jp/global/en/dia-dia.htm

shelleyk

Thanks for that link, Mara.

HT-I was looking at the Sept 2013 schedule, thinking that was closest to Nov., and that is why I could not find the train mrw alluded to. Thanks for the tip to look under the winter schedule. I understand that this will only give me an estimate. Do you know when the schedule for Nov. is usually posted?

hawaiiantraveler

Winter schedule usually out like the fall hotel prices after spring(May)IIRC.

Aloha!

kja

> Where do I find the DEFINITIVE Japan train schedule (routes, departure/arrival times, etc)? ...
> you will find them under the JR company that handles the routes you need

Fascinating! I thought hyperdia was the best resource for info about trains in Japan....

Mara

I think the train schedules are redone every quarter. In my experience the regular trains don't change that much - maybe a minute - but there are some seasonal trains as well. I also make up my projected schedule a couple of months in advance but then check/update everything on my spreadsheet before I leave....

Hyperdia is the best resource imo as far as having all the info - JR and private lines - in one place, in English and fairly easy to work with, but the railroad company itself, as ht said, would be definitive.....

Some people like jorudan better but unless it has changed recently hyperdia has a lot more info. I like the way you can get the train interval and station listing on hyperdia - I don't think jorudan has that...