Tibet protests
 

The BBC has just reported ont he situation in Tibet - there have been further protests today with people killed and monks beaten. Thet also reported that in China there is no reporting of whats happening in Tibet and China blacks out the BBC service when they talk of Tibet - it goes to a blank screen.

US Embassy is advising all citizens to stay indoors at hotels in Lhasa, and advise others to defer traveling to Tibet for now.

Here's what being posted by the US Embassy in Beijing:

beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn/031408u.html

This one from the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office:

tinyurl.com/bopm3

Here's one of the better news articles:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...5/tibet.china1

Had to happen, don't you think?

Tibet is not China. Forced to be so in 1951 when nobody was really looking, being far more focussed on events in Korea.

And now who is going to stand up for them. Especially with the Olympics coming up in August.

It's the same old story. The olympics are just sport. Great for the participants keeping fit in mind and body. But it's gone beyond that. Now totally political.

The Games should never have been awarded to China given its despicable record on human rights. And anyone going to them implicitly agrees that it's OK to destroy neighbourhoods, kill protesters and shut down channels of free infomation.

Boycott the games.

And if the BBC is listening - don't show any of it. You can do that - don't show any of it. Stand up and be counted.

It's interesting to see how people act in comparison to the recent crackdown in Myanmar. No talk of boycotting travel to China or buying Chines goods?

Hanuman - what you say is very true - it is interesting, quite a different response.
China has set midnight on Monday as a deadline for all protests to stop.

I was hoping to make a trip to Lhasa during the later part of my SE Asia journey... most likely heading there via train after a short visit to Xian.

As I understand it, it was a little difficult to begin with to get there officially, and my best bet was to 1. not mention tibet/lhasa in my Visa application (done) and 2. get a travel permit from a chinese agency when ariving in China.

Obviously, I will have to judge most of my decision based on what is currently going on when I am ready to go there, but Im curious of those opinions of travelers here.

I had hoped to see the Olympic Torch pass through the city, but considering current factors... would they be allowing foriegners into Tibet during that time frame as "freely" as they had prior to this weeks incidents (relative use of the term freely haha).

Hanuman, I think we SHOULD boycott travel to China and buying Chinese goods.

I try not to buy stuff from China. I confess I have travelled there (1997 - a journey that included Tibet) and more recently Oct 2006. The latter was a 4 day stopover which I chose specifically to see how Beijing had changed.

In 1997 the middle classes were starting to grow, and I was appalled by the in your face conflict between Party ideology and the sight of a coolie in Chongquing carrying bricks the old way, and labourers digging the road with pickaxes - both right in front of a brand new sparkling USA style mall.

By 2006 the gulf was wider and the hypocrisy more evident.

No way will I ever go there again. And no way would I go to Burma.

But that's just how I see it. Others must make their own choice.

Fascinates me though how the arch Free Market nation (socialism is a dirty word) squares the circle when it comes to China (vast command economy).

I guess we must assume the word "principle" has been erased from the dictionary.

I am posting on this Asia forum for the first time.

The horrific situation in Tibet and the suffering of Tibetans has not gone completely unnoticed in other parts of the world, but has never been given the amount of attention it deserves. Many practicing western Buddhists and others have been well aware of it.

Having recieved the blessings of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and attended his public teachings on various occasions, and seen films of monks beaten as well as the terrible conditions of Tibetans still living in Tibet. (the Chinese government puts nomadic groups into ugly cement block buildings and makes them exist on a meager allowance, when they had a good and healthy lifestyle before the invasion)
Tibet was once a beautiful and peaceful country, this latest crisis is the latest in a long and painful line of abuses. I have met Tibetan Buddhist nuns who crossed the mountains repeatedly prostrating themselves all the way to Dharamsala, India just to get to touch the Dalai Lama.
I have met respected Tibetan Rimpoches (teachers) who have spent 20 years locked in Chinese prisons, and been tortured. Then I attended teaching where they promoted peace and forgiveness.
The pain of so many Tibetans who have lived all this time without their homeland is awful to see.

Then, a few months ago, in one of my ESL classes (I teach English), we were speaking about the Dalai Lama, and a young Chinese girl asked, "But Tibet wasn't really a country was it?" Which shows the level to which the Chinese government has brainwashed it's own people.

There are Tibetan protesters on Mount Everest trying to keep the Olympic Torch from passing into the country.

One can be sure that the Chinese government will lie and try to cover up what is happening in Lhasa, as they have been doing all these years anyway as they have systematically try to destroy an entire culture.

We need an international probe into what is going on in Llasa, right away.

I hope the Olympics is boycotted, because it's one more opportunity to stand up for the rights of Tibetan people and their homeland.

I would never go there for thr reasons mentioned by bellastar. I am sure many people from other countries feel that way about the US and what's happening in Iraq, that's their choice too.

But killing peaceful monks, Tiananmen Square, or murder of peaceful protesters to me is the lowest of the low. Does a whole nation of people deserve to be penalized by it's country's government? For me it is yes unfortunately. Just can't support the inhumanity amongst other things.

Travelinwifey -- But what about when the people have no choice in their government? Do they still deserve to be penalized?

In the United States, we elect our leaders -- but I don't feel like our government's actions represent me and I cringe when I am judged by our leaders. Which, thankfully, is not that often.

In China, the people don't even have suffrage -- they're about 10x farther removed from their government than we are.

The situation in Tibet is terrible and I support the Tibetan people. (It does look pretty grim for them, however.) But cutting ourselves off from China or any country with which we disagree is not the answer -- change will only come through open dialogue.

A bit of a historical note here:

When Tibet pledged to become part of the Greater Manchu Empire (18th century), Han China itself had been conquered by the Manchus.

The Manchus treated the Tibetans differently. They honored their religion. Anyone who has gone to Beijing has gone to the Lama Temple, few know its history. If people go to Chengde, the Manchu summer capital, they will see one great architectural building after another honoring Tibetan religion and its religious leaders. Few visiting those buildings understand their historical significance, least of all the Han Chinese.

The Manchu emperors attempted to all things to all men. They tried to appeal to the Han Chinese in Han Chinese terms. They tried to appeal to the Tibetans on Tibetan terms. They tried to appeal to the Mongols on Mongol terms. They appealed to their own people, the Manchus, in Manchu terms. Which is why the official dynastic history of the Manchus is written in four different languages: Manchu, Mongolian, Tibetan, and Chinese. Most people access Manchu history only through the Chinese version.

When the Manchu dynasty was overthrown and a Chinese Republic took its place, the Tibetans considered their original ties to the Manchu dynasty as broken. The Han Chinese, never understanding the complicated Central Asian ties that had bound the Mongols and the Tibetans to the Manchus, considered Tibet still a part of China.

Thus the grounds for the current controversy.

Paraphrasing Chairman Mao: "Political power is gained at the point of a gun."

I may be wrong on one fact: the Manchu dynastic history may have been written in five official languages, the fifth being Uighur Turkic. Sorry, I wait to be corrected. Old age, memory failure again! :)

Hello petitepois, I know it is the same as holding the American people personally accountable because of what Bush does. As mentioned above I can't blame anyone if they don't want to visit the US because of the government's policies, and I feel that way towards China. Add to that the fact that our own government owes them so much money from our horrid war, I just can't justify spending my money there and rewarding other bad behavior. The humanitarian issues bother me too much. A boycott of visiting China wouldn't mean anything anyways to the governement as they already import more to us than we export plus the $$$$$ we owe them. Just a personal choice.

We had a chance to go last year with my spouse's best friend (his wife is American born Chinese) and though we were tempted to go there were more minuses for us than plusses. Finally, with the amount of polution my asthma could never take it. I would become very ill and probably wouldn't make it without having to leave early. Happened to me flyian AirItalia years ago on smoking planes, we had to get off at our stop over, get medicine for me, stay overnight so I can get better, and fly home the next day on a nonsmoking carrier. Just not doable for us for many reasons.

Ps, I don't begrudge anyone for going there, one of my close internet friends went a few years ago and loved it. I would love to see the Great Wall one day, just not today.

I am back to focus this back to the horrific situation in Tibet and neighboring provinces.
This is so tragic. As a woman who studied Tibetan Buddhism, and practices a western form of Buddhism, I am feeling the heartbreak of the Dalai Lama today.
His commitment to nonviolence is very real, and in fact he has now said he will resign his position as head of state if the violence continues. He is also the adored spiritual leader of Tibet.
Over the years I have met many Tibetans who share a commitment to nonviolence, so I know for sure that if there are violent acts now, it's after all these many decades of suffering at the oppressive practices of the Chinese government, and it's true that a slow form of cultural genocide is being practiced against the peoples of Tibet, and has been for years, while most of the world, including the US government watched.
The young protesters have the passion for their country, but don't have the vast spiritual experience and discipline of their fathers. There are monks who are setting themselves on fire in Protest, and I have no doubt in my mind that they are sitting still in Meditation as the flames surround them. The Tibetan religion has been, and will be, a precious gift to the Western world.
Since 1959, the Chinese government has been demanding that TIbetans identify themselves as Chinese, and there isn't one Tibetan who thinks of him/herself as any kind of a Chinese. Tibetans are Tibetan and have their own, highly religious culture, one which the Chinese Government has tried and failed to erase. This is a formula for tragedy on a grand scale. The 2008 Olympics pales in my mind except it has been a rare opportunity for these Tibetans to try to shine a light on what is happening to them.
I fear tomorrow.

Somehow, I find the picture in this report pretty amusing. :)

It's from London.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3576792.ece

rkkwan, notwithstanding what any of us may think about China and its treatment of Tibet, there's no excuse for the failure by the British Museum to safeguard another nation's culture legacy -- even if no damage was done, how can someone get so close to the statues to place placards on them. If I was China, I'd pull the exhibition or request heightened security.

I'm sure the Brits would be up in arms if they had lent Turners to a Chinese museum and someone hung an "England out of Ireland" sign on them.

bellastarr: well said! Wish more people would speak out and persuade their governments to protest.

The Tibetans have their own culture, their own history, their own language, their own food (more meat and yak milk based), their own customs (Mahayana Tantric Buddhism), live geographically in a different area - they are not Han Chinese.

However, the current Chinese government wants to claim the territorial expanse of the former Manchu Empire as "China". That's why there's a big fight over Taiwan and now this blowup over the occupation of Tibet against the Tibetan people's will. There is a wholesale movement by Beijing to "sinicize" Tibet, to make it more Han Chinese. The building of the railroad to Lhasa was another means to bind Tibet closer to Beijing. The Han Chinese could be more humane and more understanding in trying to keep Tibet within its sphere of influence. Wish the Han Chinese would behave more like the Manchus had. Honey attracts more than brute force.

Chinese history has ever been that when the central government had power, it could bind the outer regions to the central empire. No power, no empire.

I feel very sad for the Tibetan situation but don't know how the world is going to persuade the Han Chinese to go easier on the Tibetans.

You go, bellastarr, just keep posting. :)

Yes, if I had a religion to practice it would be Buddhist. I've read the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying and I agree with much of the teachings.

Am I the only other person who finds the photo (the Times article) funny?

This is a very good read. And also confirms what I understand happened in Lhasa last weekend:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapc...les.interview/

The coming few days will be very difficult. Troops are pouring into Tibet and the Tibetian areas in surrounding provinces, and all foreign journalists have been kicked out. So, it'll be harder to tell what will go on.

In my opinion, Beijing is handling this extremely poorly. They should be working and talking with the Dalai Lama now to calm things down. Instead, they're doing the exact opposite and demonizing someone that is well respected in the West, whether you agree with or not.

The stakes are very high now, as if Beijing don't play it right this coming days or weeks, a Olympic boycott - not necessarily by official delegations, but just by significant number of top atheletes - will become more likely. Beijing has nobody to blame but itself.

NPR's Day to Day just had an excellent piece by a journalist (James Miles, Beijing bureau chief for the Economist magazine), who was actually in Lhasa during the protests. Recommend listening to the podcast: http://www.npr.org/templates/rundown...n.php?prgId=17 He thinks the Beijing government will now have to reassess their Tibetan policy.

Ah, I see this was the same guy as in the CNN piece.

Agree with Rkkwan. At the very LEAST, the Chinese government should immediately allow foreign journalists and diplomats to visit Tibet and other affected areas to make their own, independent observations. This would immediately put a stop to any exaggeration (if there is any) by NGOs. Unless, of course, the Chinese government is hiding something.........

No way are the Han Chinese going to let anybody else into those areas.

It's a repeat of the terribly sad situation in Myanmar.

The Chinese are using the Tibetans in the Eastern part, the "Champas", who generally follow a different sect of Mahayana Tantric Buddism, the Nyingmapas (red hats), against the dominant Gelugspa sect (yellow hats) in the rest of Tibet. If you see a Tibetan who is an official under the Chinese, it will most likely be an Easterner. Very sad, turning Tibetan against Tibetan.

It's the same situation as Iraq for the US. There's too much mineral and other wealth in Tibet, too many areas that are unexplored with great mining potential - the Chinese are not going to give it up now.

It may be that boycotting the Olympics is the only way to make the Chinese understand that others don't agree with their imperialist view of Tibet.

This has really been devastating. We have studied buddhism for years and the Dalai Lama is a remarkable leader and teacher. He is so devoted to nonviolence that he must be truly suffering.

It's my understanding that the geographical location of Tibet plays a huge part in China's desire to control the region, as it could have huge strategic repercussions in the future.

I think an Olympic boycott is in order. The Chinese are also supporting the tyrants in Burma. They need to pay a high price for thier shameful actions.

The PM of Australia and US President have both just now stated during a Press conference their renewed recognition of the Human Rights abuses by the Chinese in Tibet and urged the Chinese government to engage in discussion with His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

bella - yeh, yeh, yeh.

Neither leader can slam China because of the impact on each country's economy. You see, they think that the people of their respective countries care more about the dollar in their pocket than they do about what might be happening to people just like them in a far off country.

And that's probably a fair assessment.

Each leader has to take a position that they feel will be accepted by the non-thinking majority - because, they want to get re-elected, or in the case of Dubya, they want to be loved and to go into history as a "good thing."

We can't blame them for it. It's just one of those occasions in history when individuals have to stand up, act and be counted.

Of course, it doesn't usually work - think Iraq - but we must keep trying.

Well, if Bush stands up to be counted for the end of these Human Rights Abuses in Tibet because he wants to be loved, that's fine with me, he can stand by my side and use his voice.

Do you really think that by boycotting China or the Olympics will change anything. I think it would just make the situation worse. As China grows economically rich and people begin to make more money then they will be able to have access to more technologies capable of showing them what is really going on. For example Satellite TV, foreign travel, interaction with foreigners, ect... One way for china to grow economically and become more open to western views is by having the Olympics. The Olympics is helping open up china to the west and will create a dialogue not only between outsiders on Chinese politics but also within China.

I know from my own travels that you can never fully understand your own country without seeing how the outside world views it. The best thing for Tibet and China is a dialogue within china be opened. Most Chinese people are just uninformed and therefore take the side of their government due to the pride in their country.

Secondly, although violence is against the traditional Dalai Lama teaching and other Tibetan view, one could not help but question whether there is some higher up Tibetan leadership involved in these protest. Up until this Tibet has been a lost issue among the press and the world and I would bet that these leaders, if not the Dalai Lama himself thought of the run up to the Olympic games as a last chance effort to gain attention to Tibet.

And lastly, punishing the athletes who have worked so hard for the politics of one government would be a shame. The Olympics are supposed to be for everybody whether we agree with their government policies or not. That is why we let dictator ships like North Korea and terrorism supports like Iran participate. The Olympics should unite, not divide.
Just my $.02

Boycotting the Olympics would indeed change nothing in terms of the way China is run or by whom. But that isn't any reason for not boycotting the games. Some actions are inherently wrong, and supporting the Beijing Olympics is one of them. It doesn't matter if no one notices that you aren't there and everything goes ahead. You know. And those of us who care about such things will admire you, too.

The argument that doing business with China will open up the country and eventually end the one-party system is one that businessmen have trotted out to justify their investment in one of the world's most rotten regimes throughout the second half of the 20th century. But things have turned out very differently.

Foreign channels do not appear on satellite television and nor are they going to outside top class hotels and expat/reliably rich Chinese residential compounds, and even then with touchy stories blacked out; the Internet is heavily censored to all those with no English or understanding of proxy servers; most overseas travel is on tours and by people who have an interest in maintaining the status quo.

What is happening is that Western investment is funding the view that a one-party state can and is delivering the goods, and therefore need not be changed. It's funding the growth of a (still insignificant in percentage terms) middle class that supports the government because it has allowed it to become rich. Democracy? Don't make them laugh. That would put unwashed peasants in the majority and not be in the interests of these Lexus drivers at all.

The Olympics has nothing whatsoever to do with opening up China to the West. The total number of fresh contacts will be infinitesimal compared to the total number of existing interactions, and these will be the most tightly monitored and artificial encounteres since foreigners were first allowed back in. The Chinese government has made these games the very opposite of 'dialogue'. No 'dialogue' will take place at all. This is a broadcast of propaganda to the outside world, about the triumph of Chinese socialism, the exaltation of the masses, and the eradication of the memory (until those memories are useful again, at least) of past wrongs (real and imaginary) done to China by foreigners. It's about the eradication of 4 June 1989 and the promotion into global acceptability of one of the most bloody-handed regimes of modern times. To participate is to sign-up for these repulsive propositions.

There will not be any dialogue within China about Tibet, and the Olympics will have no impact whatsoever on the Tibet situation. There's no interest in argument or discussion; no interest even in facts. Even were China suddenly to become a multi-party democracy tomorrow Tibet would still be held by the throat. The rest of the observations on this topic read like something out of China Daily.

The Olympics may be 'supposed to be for everybody' but the mendacious and supple Jacques Rogge and the Beijing government between them have made sure they are anything but that. No sympathy is due to the athletes who should have made it clear to the Olympic committee as soon as China became a candidate that they would not participate. The recent violence is just a pin-prick compared to the massacres since the current regime took power, and its ongoing repression and politically motivated imprisonment of the innocent.

What next? An Olympics in North Korea? How about Darfur?

The shame will be if there's a boycott through last-minute political opportunism as leaders shrug off the pressures brought to bear by greedy businessmen fearful of losing contracts in response to a groundswell of public opinion to which they pay attention far too late in the day. The boycott should have been led by the athletes in the first place, ensuring that the Olympics went somewhere that would treat them as games and not politics, leaving the whole Olympic ideal permanently stained with blood.

Right Now in the IS, Congressional hearing have just started on the Tibet situation. It is heavily attended.
Sec of State John Negroponte is making his statement. Richard Gere will then speak to introduce the special envoy of HH The Dalai Lama, and other Tibetan scholars will also make statements.
It took decades of suffering but at least we are now getting an official forum for this horrific situation has has been going on for so long and has led inevitably to the current state of affairs.

Anyone who is interested can watch on CSpan2 this afternoon.

Peace

I wrote Dialogues Tibetan Dialogues Han, a travelogue from Tibet, after having chatted with hundreds of Tibetans in Tibet, before the protests/riots in 2008.

Worth reading as it's the Tibetans talking.

http://www.amazon.com/Dialogues-Tibe.../dp/9889799936

Sorry, but the heck with China. Why the hell would anyone want to patronize that country any further? I can make a good list of reasons why not to go.

Interesting editorial from today's New York Times:



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/we...ef=todayspaper