This is what Oberoi suggested..advice please
Apr 10th, 2010, 07:25 PM
#21
Wow, dogster, that train fare is waaay high! seat61.com says it's 755 rupees ($17 US) one way in executive chair class. I haven't checked the Indian Railways website, but can't imagine he's that far off! Regular chair class (still with AC) is 390.
Apr 10th, 2010, 09:13 PM
#22
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I didn't look it up, thursday. You are correct, not me.
Well jilia, just wait and see their quote. Now if they quote one million dollars extra, you'll have a comparison. Wait and see. Remember on this Oberoi deal you get one stay in a SUITE as a free upgrade. So don't choose Delhi, Choose Udaipur, I reckon.
If you don't know what I'm talking about - you should. Go check your deal - the one I posted.
Yup, to and from airpot and/or train stations is part of the deal.
I'm in Australia, don't fly Continental and use Air India only internally if I have to.
Well jilia, just wait and see their quote. Now if they quote one million dollars extra, you'll have a comparison. Wait and see. Remember on this Oberoi deal you get one stay in a SUITE as a free upgrade. So don't choose Delhi, Choose Udaipur, I reckon.
If you don't know what I'm talking about - you should. Go check your deal - the one I posted.
Yup, to and from airpot and/or train stations is part of the deal.
I'm in Australia, don't fly Continental and use Air India only internally if I have to.
Apr 11th, 2010, 11:00 AM
#25
I loved Shatabdi first class to Agra. I do think the platform can be intimidating. However, it seems like your son will be used to that feel. They offered us a decent breakfast and the paper. Have you already arranged for a driver to pick you up in Agra?
Apr 11th, 2010, 08:29 PM
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Air India is, to put it bluntly, quite a poor airline in terms of service and age of aircraft. Their on-time record is probably in the bottom third of all airlines as well, you can no doubt check on that. The best “service” and aircraft you might get will be on the US routes, so you may end up OK in terms of a fairly new aircraft. However, it is hard for me to imagine a worse airline. Do NOT fly them domestically in India unless the only other option is a very long train ride. Use Jet Airways or Kingfisher.
As you are spending all that money on hotels, I hope you are at least also spending some money on going business class on the int’l portion of the flights. AI’s business class is IMO considerably sub-par. While Continental’s is not nearly as good as the Asian airlines like Singapore, Cathay or Jet, it is perfectly comfortable.
Of course Oberoi doesn’t recommend train travel! They don’t make any money if you take a train rather than use their car service! However, other than going to Agra from Delhi, where I would strongly suggest you take one of the super-fast trains rather than driving down, your itin routing doesn’t really lend itself to much train travel. You should look at the fare difference between taking the train to Agra, and using the Oberois to transfer you. The trains are very inexpensive. If you want to save money on this trip, making your own transport arrangements is one way. Indian train stations are the best people-watching in the entire world, IMO. There are not, however, the cleanest places in the world, but that is just something you learn to accept. And while first/executive class train cars can’t compare to first class trains in someplace like Switzerland, they are perfectly fine and no harm will come to you. I always say that a train ride in India is part of the overall experience of travel there. IMO you want to drive between Jaipur and Agra so that you can stop at Fatephur Sikri on the way in. You could, however, also take a train between Jaipur and Agra and to Fatephur Sikri as an exclusion for half a day from Agra. You could also just arrange for your own car and driver for the Delhi-Agra portions and Jaipur-Agra portions. That would be cheaper than using the Oberois to transfer you, probably by at least half.
In terms of the itin for Udaipur, which I think Devigarh is a fantastic hotel, I am not sure I see the point of moving within the same area. The hotel is only about 40 minutes from Udaipur itself. I also don’t think that staying for 1 night will really give you a chance to appreciate the unique setting and ambience of the hotel. You need time to see the village, walk the fields etc. If you decide to include Devigarh, I would also probably reverse the itin and go to Udiavilas first, as it is closer to the airport. It also will give you the chance to get the whole “lake effect” at the start of the trip, and then see the quite different area around Devigarh. Devigarh is also on the road to Jaipur (sort of).
I actually don’t like the location of the Udaivilas, as it is too far from town, and for 4 nights the time needed to travel to the old town areas every day may begin to wear on you. I also think that the setting and ambience of the Lake Palace hotel is much better than the Udaivilas, although with low lake levels this may not be as attractive as in other years. (Of course if they get a good monsoon this year, by end July there could be very good lake levels.) Not sure if you have looked at the Lake Palace. See tajhotels.com
I think I would visit Kumbulgarh as part of the day drive from Udaipur to Jaipur. It would be possible to include a visit to the Jain temples at Ranakpur as well on this trip. Personally, I think I would do 3 nights in Udaipur, and then this long day drive, and 3 nights in Jaipur (although you really will only have 2 days in Jaipur as you will arrive around sunset on the first night.) It is a long day trip, but in rainy season a bit cooler and therefore you can fit a bit more in. Just start early. You can have lunch at the Aodhi hotel, or have the hotel pack you a lunch. (You could even consider an overnight at the Aohdi which would give you an opportunity to see the game park nearby.)
If you are looking for day trips from Udaipur, then rather than Kumulgharh, consider going to Chittorgarh. There is a famous and very interesting Jain temple at nearby Delwara, and also a Hindu temple complex at Eklingji, either or both of which make good half day excursions from Devigarh or from Udaipur (personally, I found the Jain temple at Delwara to be just as interesting, and far more active, than the one at Ranakpur. And much easier to get to.) Or take a half day trip up to the Monsoon Palace. Or go horseback riding or hiking in the hills which will be very green in the monsoon season (which you can also do around Devigarh).
I also would not do the last night in Delhi. I would stay in Agra and drive back in the late afternoon. As you want to do the drive in daylight, this means you would leave between 2-3 pm and reach the airport area around 7 pm. While this is too early most likely to check-in for your flight, it is not too early for the driver to take you to the nearby Trident/Oberoi hotel where you can have a meal (and/or if you time it correctly, a massage or other spa treatment which will put you into just the right frame of mind and body to face the return flight). The driver will wait for you, and then take you on to the airport for check-in. You could also do this by taking a late afternoon train from Agra to Delhi, aiming to arrive 4 hours or so before the flight, and going from the train station to the airport, thereby arriving just as the check-in lines open for the flight. This will give you an extra night to use elsewhere. Either add a night in Delhi at the beginning of the trip, an overnight somewhere on the road between Udaipur and Jaipur, or add a night in Jaipur.
As you are spending all that money on hotels, I hope you are at least also spending some money on going business class on the int’l portion of the flights. AI’s business class is IMO considerably sub-par. While Continental’s is not nearly as good as the Asian airlines like Singapore, Cathay or Jet, it is perfectly comfortable.
Of course Oberoi doesn’t recommend train travel! They don’t make any money if you take a train rather than use their car service! However, other than going to Agra from Delhi, where I would strongly suggest you take one of the super-fast trains rather than driving down, your itin routing doesn’t really lend itself to much train travel. You should look at the fare difference between taking the train to Agra, and using the Oberois to transfer you. The trains are very inexpensive. If you want to save money on this trip, making your own transport arrangements is one way. Indian train stations are the best people-watching in the entire world, IMO. There are not, however, the cleanest places in the world, but that is just something you learn to accept. And while first/executive class train cars can’t compare to first class trains in someplace like Switzerland, they are perfectly fine and no harm will come to you. I always say that a train ride in India is part of the overall experience of travel there. IMO you want to drive between Jaipur and Agra so that you can stop at Fatephur Sikri on the way in. You could, however, also take a train between Jaipur and Agra and to Fatephur Sikri as an exclusion for half a day from Agra. You could also just arrange for your own car and driver for the Delhi-Agra portions and Jaipur-Agra portions. That would be cheaper than using the Oberois to transfer you, probably by at least half.
In terms of the itin for Udaipur, which I think Devigarh is a fantastic hotel, I am not sure I see the point of moving within the same area. The hotel is only about 40 minutes from Udaipur itself. I also don’t think that staying for 1 night will really give you a chance to appreciate the unique setting and ambience of the hotel. You need time to see the village, walk the fields etc. If you decide to include Devigarh, I would also probably reverse the itin and go to Udiavilas first, as it is closer to the airport. It also will give you the chance to get the whole “lake effect” at the start of the trip, and then see the quite different area around Devigarh. Devigarh is also on the road to Jaipur (sort of).
I actually don’t like the location of the Udaivilas, as it is too far from town, and for 4 nights the time needed to travel to the old town areas every day may begin to wear on you. I also think that the setting and ambience of the Lake Palace hotel is much better than the Udaivilas, although with low lake levels this may not be as attractive as in other years. (Of course if they get a good monsoon this year, by end July there could be very good lake levels.) Not sure if you have looked at the Lake Palace. See tajhotels.com
I think I would visit Kumbulgarh as part of the day drive from Udaipur to Jaipur. It would be possible to include a visit to the Jain temples at Ranakpur as well on this trip. Personally, I think I would do 3 nights in Udaipur, and then this long day drive, and 3 nights in Jaipur (although you really will only have 2 days in Jaipur as you will arrive around sunset on the first night.) It is a long day trip, but in rainy season a bit cooler and therefore you can fit a bit more in. Just start early. You can have lunch at the Aodhi hotel, or have the hotel pack you a lunch. (You could even consider an overnight at the Aohdi which would give you an opportunity to see the game park nearby.)
If you are looking for day trips from Udaipur, then rather than Kumulgharh, consider going to Chittorgarh. There is a famous and very interesting Jain temple at nearby Delwara, and also a Hindu temple complex at Eklingji, either or both of which make good half day excursions from Devigarh or from Udaipur (personally, I found the Jain temple at Delwara to be just as interesting, and far more active, than the one at Ranakpur. And much easier to get to.) Or take a half day trip up to the Monsoon Palace. Or go horseback riding or hiking in the hills which will be very green in the monsoon season (which you can also do around Devigarh).
I also would not do the last night in Delhi. I would stay in Agra and drive back in the late afternoon. As you want to do the drive in daylight, this means you would leave between 2-3 pm and reach the airport area around 7 pm. While this is too early most likely to check-in for your flight, it is not too early for the driver to take you to the nearby Trident/Oberoi hotel where you can have a meal (and/or if you time it correctly, a massage or other spa treatment which will put you into just the right frame of mind and body to face the return flight). The driver will wait for you, and then take you on to the airport for check-in. You could also do this by taking a late afternoon train from Agra to Delhi, aiming to arrive 4 hours or so before the flight, and going from the train station to the airport, thereby arriving just as the check-in lines open for the flight. This will give you an extra night to use elsewhere. Either add a night in Delhi at the beginning of the trip, an overnight somewhere on the road between Udaipur and Jaipur, or add a night in Jaipur.
Apr 11th, 2010, 08:31 PM
#27
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Yup, that's why julia needs to make sure her expensive Oberoi guy makes sure she is in her seat on the train as part of the service. She'll have the son, however, to pick up the bags and the strain.
The Oberoi's will pick her up as part of the deal, misha.
So, what's the latest? As for 'IF it is available...' and that suite upgrade... don't be conned. It WILL be available, and it WILL be available where you want it - i.e. in Udaipur. Use the suite upgrade where you are spending the most time. So, work out where you want it and start demanding. For a deal like this, you can be as demanding as you like. They are used to it.
Imagine yourself as a petite Bollywood filmstar. [As a matter of fact, julia - that's how I think of you now - lol] Make your demands accordingly. Wonderfully, as you know, Oberoi has a no-tips policy. Your job will be to remember the names of all those keen little Oberoites and write them down on ytour comment card. That is the 21st Century tip in India.
The Oberoi's will pick her up as part of the deal, misha.
So, what's the latest? As for 'IF it is available...' and that suite upgrade... don't be conned. It WILL be available, and it WILL be available where you want it - i.e. in Udaipur. Use the suite upgrade where you are spending the most time. So, work out where you want it and start demanding. For a deal like this, you can be as demanding as you like. They are used to it.
Imagine yourself as a petite Bollywood filmstar. [As a matter of fact, julia - that's how I think of you now - lol] Make your demands accordingly. Wonderfully, as you know, Oberoi has a no-tips policy. Your job will be to remember the names of all those keen little Oberoites and write them down on ytour comment card. That is the 21st Century tip in India.
Apr 11th, 2010, 10:12 PM
#28
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a. Since you are driving from Udaipur to Jaipur, you could overnight at Shahpura Bagh. Not only will it break the journey but will also give you a peek into rural Rajasthan. Shahpura Bagh is a luxury property.
b. You could do Ranakpur temples from Udaipur, as day trip. But if you try both Kumbhalgarh Fort & Ranakpur, it becomes tedious!
c. How about taking a look at Umaid Bhawan Palace (Jodhpur) where you have the chance of meeting the redoubtable Gaj Singh,the HH. or as his guest of honour, getting to watch the winter polo matches! The Oberois do not as yet have a property in Jodhpur & hence it does not figure in the tour itinerary. A visit to fort Mehrangarh complements it beautifully.
b. You could do Ranakpur temples from Udaipur, as day trip. But if you try both Kumbhalgarh Fort & Ranakpur, it becomes tedious!
c. How about taking a look at Umaid Bhawan Palace (Jodhpur) where you have the chance of meeting the redoubtable Gaj Singh,the HH. or as his guest of honour, getting to watch the winter polo matches! The Oberois do not as yet have a property in Jodhpur & hence it does not figure in the tour itinerary. A visit to fort Mehrangarh complements it beautifully.
Apr 12th, 2010, 04:13 AM
#29
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Keep in mind that sightseeing excursions are not included in the Oberoi package. Oberoi arrangements are going to be very expensive. If you hire your own driver from Udaipur to Jaipur, you may want to keep the driver for your stay in Jaipur since the hotel is quite far from the action of Jaipur.
Apr 12th, 2010, 06:11 AM
#30
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thanks for all the advice..I will spend more time reading later.. I did get rates on car travel from Oberoi and its seems outrageous....flight....292.12 per person (13,000 rps)
udaipur to jaipur (38,605 rps-867.00 us) Jaipur-Agra 19,303rps-433.72 us)
Agra-Delhu (17,373 rps-390.36 US) or Train 1750rps.....
Now I used a on-line currency convertter.....I think this is right and outrageous and does not include drive to any sights...
So I think I need to hire my own driver...right??? who..how...when?????I dont mind paying for high price for hotel but I do mind these prices....
Ideas??? thoughts???
udaipur to jaipur (38,605 rps-867.00 us) Jaipur-Agra 19,303rps-433.72 us)
Agra-Delhu (17,373 rps-390.36 US) or Train 1750rps.....
Now I used a on-line currency convertter.....I think this is right and outrageous and does not include drive to any sights...
So I think I need to hire my own driver...right??? who..how...when?????I dont mind paying for high price for hotel but I do mind these prices....
Ideas??? thoughts???
Apr 12th, 2010, 06:27 AM
#31
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The on-line currency converter is accurate.
It cost us $24 for a smallish car and a driver for a full day from Udaipur last February. You can do much better than what the Oberoi has quoted. We booked our car through our home-stay so I can't help you on this one.
You can also save some money by booking your flights directly. Try www.kayak.com which will bring up Kingfisher and Jet Airways flights.
It cost us $24 for a smallish car and a driver for a full day from Udaipur last February. You can do much better than what the Oberoi has quoted. We booked our car through our home-stay so I can't help you on this one.
You can also save some money by booking your flights directly. Try www.kayak.com which will bring up Kingfisher and Jet Airways flights.
Apr 12th, 2010, 06:45 AM
#32
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I would contact the well-reviewed Ramesh at
http://www.ramindiatours.com/
and ask for a cost estimate for meeting you in Udaipur on your second day there and then driving you until you return to Delhi. That would pretty much cover everything you need, except for local guides if you decide to use them. You can also ask how much you save if you return to Delhi from Agra by train yourself. You can book the Delhi to Udaipur flight yourself cheaper.
http://www.ramindiatours.com/
and ask for a cost estimate for meeting you in Udaipur on your second day there and then driving you until you return to Delhi. That would pretty much cover everything you need, except for local guides if you decide to use them. You can also ask how much you save if you return to Delhi from Agra by train yourself. You can book the Delhi to Udaipur flight yourself cheaper.
Apr 12th, 2010, 07:08 AM
#33
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we have used this family for drivers....you might try them...lcuy also has used them....they are based in delhi...be very specific
[email protected]
ask for travel by an SUV
[email protected]
ask for travel by an SUV
Apr 12th, 2010, 07:47 AM
#34
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lol, yup - outrageous - as I knew it would be.
No question: get your own guy. Follow the suggestions you'll get - no stress. They are all tried and tested. Craig's $24 is for a weeny little car - I reckon more than that. And yup, SUV is the way to go.
No question: get your own guy. Follow the suggestions you'll get - no stress. They are all tried and tested. Craig's $24 is for a weeny little car - I reckon more than that. And yup, SUV is the way to go.
Apr 12th, 2010, 11:18 AM
#35
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Ditto Shapura Bagh -- quite lovely and peaceful. I found the trip to the Monsoon Palace in U. something we did after dinner one evening. I agree with Cicerone about being out in the boonies at Udaivilas.
We drove from Jodhpur to Udaipur with stops to see Ranakpur and Kumbhalgarh. It was a long drive from Jodhpur and would be an even longer drive from U. to Jaipur. We spent the night at Shapura Bagh en route to Jaipur with a detour to see Chittorgarh. I wish we'd spent the night near Kumbhalgarh so we could have spent more time inspecting the temple complex at the foot of the fort.
I would also recommend Ramesh Meena (see Marija's recco above). He was our driver for 17 days in the same areas you'll be traveling. He's also highly recommended by others on this board -- travelaw, bonnieheather, MrsMarge, live42day and others. Check their trip reports. We paid about 3100 rupees per day in high season, all inclusive, for a Toyota Innova van. Your rate would probably be lower since it's monsoon season. Ram also kept us amply supplied with cold bottled water and lots of other treats.
We drove from Jodhpur to Udaipur with stops to see Ranakpur and Kumbhalgarh. It was a long drive from Jodhpur and would be an even longer drive from U. to Jaipur. We spent the night at Shapura Bagh en route to Jaipur with a detour to see Chittorgarh. I wish we'd spent the night near Kumbhalgarh so we could have spent more time inspecting the temple complex at the foot of the fort.
I would also recommend Ramesh Meena (see Marija's recco above). He was our driver for 17 days in the same areas you'll be traveling. He's also highly recommended by others on this board -- travelaw, bonnieheather, MrsMarge, live42day and others. Check their trip reports. We paid about 3100 rupees per day in high season, all inclusive, for a Toyota Innova van. Your rate would probably be lower since it's monsoon season. Ram also kept us amply supplied with cold bottled water and lots of other treats.
Apr 12th, 2010, 12:15 PM
#36
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oh no!!! O love the advice but getting overwhelmed again..but keep it coming..so soem of the suggestions i am mulling over...
1. Not to do last night in delhi-take train to delhi from agra in afternoon and then dinner and spa...I assume u can shower at the spa
2. Do I add a night in delhi in beginning
3. On way to Jaipur stay at Shahpura Bagh...what do others think?
4. I am definetly getting my own driver..already contacted Ramesh...
Dogster...I need you!!!!
1. Not to do last night in delhi-take train to delhi from agra in afternoon and then dinner and spa...I assume u can shower at the spa
2. Do I add a night in delhi in beginning
3. On way to Jaipur stay at Shahpura Bagh...what do others think?
4. I am definetly getting my own driver..already contacted Ramesh...
Dogster...I need you!!!!
Apr 12th, 2010, 12:52 PM
#37
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JuliaJ,
This will throw another "kink" in the saga, but.. have you considered asking Ramesh to set up your entire trip ??
Ask for his advice about your plan, as well as continuing to enquire of Fodors Folks. Ramesh runs a travel company. Trust me, he, like any truly competent inbound Indian travel planner (you have many recommendations on this board) will hold your hand, guide you, make sure you are safe and comfortable, as much as Oberoi Hotels will do...and you'll have more variety in experiences and luxury accommodations, since that is the level you prefer for this trip.
A good tour planner will provide bottled water, drive you safely from door to door, point out sites of interest on the route, take you wherever you want to go and be there waiting when you've finished (meal, sites visit, etc) , set up guides if you want, see you onto the train ( even paying the "platform "fee to do so) pick you up after arrival the airport, get you right to the door of the airport upon departure (they cannot go IN, because Indian airports very wisely--at least BLR--lets only registered passengers inside-- police check passengers' list before allowing you to enter the terminal). Our driver checked even to make sure public bathrooms were ok--of those he didnt know personally of, based on previous trips he'd done.
And yes, the Innova is defintiely the way to go11
This will throw another "kink" in the saga, but.. have you considered asking Ramesh to set up your entire trip ??
Ask for his advice about your plan, as well as continuing to enquire of Fodors Folks. Ramesh runs a travel company. Trust me, he, like any truly competent inbound Indian travel planner (you have many recommendations on this board) will hold your hand, guide you, make sure you are safe and comfortable, as much as Oberoi Hotels will do...and you'll have more variety in experiences and luxury accommodations, since that is the level you prefer for this trip.
A good tour planner will provide bottled water, drive you safely from door to door, point out sites of interest on the route, take you wherever you want to go and be there waiting when you've finished (meal, sites visit, etc) , set up guides if you want, see you onto the train ( even paying the "platform "fee to do so) pick you up after arrival the airport, get you right to the door of the airport upon departure (they cannot go IN, because Indian airports very wisely--at least BLR--lets only registered passengers inside-- police check passengers' list before allowing you to enter the terminal). Our driver checked even to make sure public bathrooms were ok--of those he didnt know personally of, based on previous trips he'd done.
And yes, the Innova is defintiely the way to go11
Apr 12th, 2010, 01:15 PM
#38
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JJ--you may think that you're getting a real deal by buying into the Oberoi multi-night package but remember that many of the Oberoi hotels are offering discounted rates for stays of two nights during that time period.
http://www.oberoihotels.com/special_...day_summer.asp
That means you don't have to stay 10 nights just at Oberois to get good rates.
http://www.oberoihotels.com/special_...day_summer.asp
That means you don't have to stay 10 nights just at Oberois to get good rates.
Apr 12th, 2010, 01:22 PM
#39
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The trip from Udaipur via Kumbhalgarh and Ranakpur to Jaipur all in one day is too much. So with what seems to be a good recommendation in Shahpura Bagh you now have a place to stay to break it up. If you go this route, you can get by with 3 nights in Udaipur and do another one in Delhi at the beginning.
Do make sure you get an SUV - our "weeny" car was fine for one day but a larger car will make for a more relaxed drive with plenty of room for your bags. I think 3100 rupees ($70) is more in the ball park for this type of vehicle.
I don't think there is a fast train that will work with your schedule for Agra - Delhi.
Dogster lives in Australia and is likely asleep right now but rest assured, he will return.
Do make sure you get an SUV - our "weeny" car was fine for one day but a larger car will make for a more relaxed drive with plenty of room for your bags. I think 3100 rupees ($70) is more in the ball park for this type of vehicle.
I don't think there is a fast train that will work with your schedule for Agra - Delhi.
Dogster lives in Australia and is likely asleep right now but rest assured, he will return.
