Thanks Fodorites, China was great, just a word of caution
Apr 22nd, 2005, 06:31 AM
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Thanks Fodorites, China was great, just a word of caution
Back from BJ, Xian, Shanghai, it was wonderful and owe it all to this forum. A sincere thanks.
Don't have much to add (I got all my ideas from you guys
except about beggers/pick-pockets scheme...
Maybe we were just too cynical/paranoid (live in manhattan) but we noticed often in touristy areas, when the sad old lady came up to beg for money, there seemed to be men two steps behind paying VERY close attention. We talked to some locals (I have clients there) and they said there are rings that send beggar ladies/child to come up and the men behind watch where you're reaching for your wallet.
If this has been discussed before and I'm the only amateur who didn't already know sorry to repeat this, but just in case I wanted everyone to be cautious. As many of these old ladies were in deed very sad looking so I often had change ready to give out from jean pockets or I would give them a sandwich or pastry I was carrying.
BTW, Jingshanling to Simatai great wall was terrific, worth the long drive to get there. We arrived around 3pm (intentionally for sunset light) and the wall was empty, not mobbed by tourists as others had mentioned about Badaling.
Don't have much to add (I got all my ideas from you guys
except about beggers/pick-pockets scheme... Maybe we were just too cynical/paranoid (live in manhattan) but we noticed often in touristy areas, when the sad old lady came up to beg for money, there seemed to be men two steps behind paying VERY close attention. We talked to some locals (I have clients there) and they said there are rings that send beggar ladies/child to come up and the men behind watch where you're reaching for your wallet.
If this has been discussed before and I'm the only amateur who didn't already know sorry to repeat this, but just in case I wanted everyone to be cautious. As many of these old ladies were in deed very sad looking so I often had change ready to give out from jean pockets or I would give them a sandwich or pastry I was carrying.
BTW, Jingshanling to Simatai great wall was terrific, worth the long drive to get there. We arrived around 3pm (intentionally for sunset light) and the wall was empty, not mobbed by tourists as others had mentioned about Badaling.
Apr 22nd, 2005, 07:09 AM
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I don't think you're being cynical or paranoid. Such schemes definitely exist in China and other parts of the world. One reason why I never give money to panhandlers. [The other is that even if they're "legit", once you give money to one, you'll suddenly be swamped by dozens who may come out of nowhere.]
BTW, glad you have a wonderful time. Did you end up on UA's business class? Or did you fly Air China? How were the flights?
BTW, glad you have a wonderful time. Did you end up on UA's business class? Or did you fly Air China? How were the flights?
Apr 22nd, 2005, 09:41 AM
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Hi rkkwan, yeah the trip was great, thanks so much for all your tips. We ended up on UA business, not Air China code share, but on the way there they upgraded us to 1st class, which was nice, a great way to start the trip. In 1st the seats fully-reclined into flat-bed, biz was not completely flat.
Hi Cocor, the Jinshanling - Simatai section was amazing, mind you I don't have previous Great Wall experience for comparison. I wouldn't call it difficult, definitely not dangerous, but you'd be tired and your legs would feel very sore at the end. You are essentially walking up or down steps pretty much the whole time, for around 3 hours, it was rarely flat.
Pls note there are two towers where you could not walk directly from the tower to the next section of the wall, not without jumping 30 feet! So we took the side short cut off the wall onto the grass. Does this make sense? Sorry I forgot which number towers they were but by the time you get there you'll figure it out. Those are the two obvious ones where you would go "S#%T" for a second until you notice the short cut path marks left by previous hikers.
Definitely go for it! It was stunning, peaceful, and very high up! You could see endless mountains and in our case no one else (In April on a sunday afternoon). At one point we were so excited to see a bird/hawk flying from miles away toward us, just floating in the sky.
Hi Cocor, the Jinshanling - Simatai section was amazing, mind you I don't have previous Great Wall experience for comparison. I wouldn't call it difficult, definitely not dangerous, but you'd be tired and your legs would feel very sore at the end. You are essentially walking up or down steps pretty much the whole time, for around 3 hours, it was rarely flat.
Pls note there are two towers where you could not walk directly from the tower to the next section of the wall, not without jumping 30 feet! So we took the side short cut off the wall onto the grass. Does this make sense? Sorry I forgot which number towers they were but by the time you get there you'll figure it out. Those are the two obvious ones where you would go "S#%T" for a second until you notice the short cut path marks left by previous hikers.
Definitely go for it! It was stunning, peaceful, and very high up! You could see endless mountains and in our case no one else (In April on a sunday afternoon). At one point we were so excited to see a bird/hawk flying from miles away toward us, just floating in the sky.
Apr 23rd, 2005, 06:57 PM
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You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned your skepticism about beggars. I have mentioned this a few times in postings, urging tourists NOT to donate.
I also come from just outside NYC and was brought up to never give money to beggars, but to offer food or bottled water instead.
Here in China I notice the same ones have been hanging out at my local grocery store for years. Then, after the "pre-dinner get groceries" rush, they turn the corner to the restaurants and then finally on to the bar street.
These beggars are "pimped out" by others (possibly the men you sayw standing a few feet back). And as RKKWAN said, once you open your wallet to one, you will be swamped from everyone, even ones with canes who were previously limping, racing down the street to get a handout.
They are not among the most needy in China and by giving to them you create ane enable dependence. And reinforce the misconception that "all foreigners are rich".
To all China travelers, I urge you not to give to beggars, but if you want to make a difference, find a charity in China that sponsors a group you identify with (orphan girls, mentally retarded adults, AIDS/HIV sufferers) and make a direct donation.
I also come from just outside NYC and was brought up to never give money to beggars, but to offer food or bottled water instead.
Here in China I notice the same ones have been hanging out at my local grocery store for years. Then, after the "pre-dinner get groceries" rush, they turn the corner to the restaurants and then finally on to the bar street.
These beggars are "pimped out" by others (possibly the men you sayw standing a few feet back). And as RKKWAN said, once you open your wallet to one, you will be swamped from everyone, even ones with canes who were previously limping, racing down the street to get a handout.
They are not among the most needy in China and by giving to them you create ane enable dependence. And reinforce the misconception that "all foreigners are rich".
To all China travelers, I urge you not to give to beggars, but if you want to make a difference, find a charity in China that sponsors a group you identify with (orphan girls, mentally retarded adults, AIDS/HIV sufferers) and make a direct donation.
Apr 24th, 2005, 08:49 AM
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Hi Talker,
We arranged the trip without a guide, it was easy just by researching on this forum. Considered guides but decided it was more fun and flexible if we did it on our own.
Let me reassure you we were not budget travelers trying to do everything on the cheap or principally against using guides. We've done things like privately guided safaris in Kenya with zoologists. Also, I have clients in China who offered to arrange guided tours for us on their dimes (or yuan
I realized when reading the "best in 4 days Beijing" type itineraries in website and books, and even from trip reports of people who did use guides, that the itineraries are more of less the same. So I decided to model after those itineraries, wrote out each item on a piece of paper, consulted a map to set a walking/taxi route for the day, and got the hotel to write out those site's names in Chinese characters for us. I figured it's not that different than for a Japanese tourist to come to NYC, show a taxi driver words like Empire State Building, Statue of Liberty, Central Park, etc. They wouldn't need a guided tour.
In places like Beijing, every taxi driver/person on the street knows what and where the Forbidden City, Summer Palace, etc are. Guided tours take you to those same places, but you won't have the freedom to explore at your own pace. In Beijing, we lingered with men playing/watching chinese chess in a Hutong corner and we tried to learn the game. A guided Hutong tour wouldn't have allowed you to stop for that. In Xian, we walked by a community/activity center with a nice small lake, I gestured to an old man if we could come in, he smiled and gestured yes. We went inside and watched seniors playing some chinese form of croquette, and others taking dance lessons.
Why don't you start a thread, list criteria like how many days you have and where you want to go. People will respond with suggested itineraries. Or search "china itineraries" or "china trip report" and read what people did and pick the ones interest you most. Also read Fodors and Frommers online for their "best in x days" itineraries.
Good luck and enjoy!
We arranged the trip without a guide, it was easy just by researching on this forum. Considered guides but decided it was more fun and flexible if we did it on our own.
Let me reassure you we were not budget travelers trying to do everything on the cheap or principally against using guides. We've done things like privately guided safaris in Kenya with zoologists. Also, I have clients in China who offered to arrange guided tours for us on their dimes (or yuan
I realized when reading the "best in 4 days Beijing" type itineraries in website and books, and even from trip reports of people who did use guides, that the itineraries are more of less the same. So I decided to model after those itineraries, wrote out each item on a piece of paper, consulted a map to set a walking/taxi route for the day, and got the hotel to write out those site's names in Chinese characters for us. I figured it's not that different than for a Japanese tourist to come to NYC, show a taxi driver words like Empire State Building, Statue of Liberty, Central Park, etc. They wouldn't need a guided tour.
In places like Beijing, every taxi driver/person on the street knows what and where the Forbidden City, Summer Palace, etc are. Guided tours take you to those same places, but you won't have the freedom to explore at your own pace. In Beijing, we lingered with men playing/watching chinese chess in a Hutong corner and we tried to learn the game. A guided Hutong tour wouldn't have allowed you to stop for that. In Xian, we walked by a community/activity center with a nice small lake, I gestured to an old man if we could come in, he smiled and gestured yes. We went inside and watched seniors playing some chinese form of croquette, and others taking dance lessons.
Why don't you start a thread, list criteria like how many days you have and where you want to go. People will respond with suggested itineraries. Or search "china itineraries" or "china trip report" and read what people did and pick the ones interest you most. Also read Fodors and Frommers online for their "best in x days" itineraries.
Good luck and enjoy!
