Takayama and Kyoto
 

Recently made FF reservations to Japan for the last week in October and we're trying to flesh out how we spend our 8 nights. Our interest is mainly Kyoto (previous visit 1994) and we're also intrigued with Takayama and hope that it might give us access to some fall color in the Alps, as we realize we're way too early to see any in Kyoto. We're pretty sure our first night needs to be in Tokyo since we land at 9:15 pm, so we're down to 7 nights.

Thinking of 2 or 3 nights in Takayama, with the remaining 4-5 nights in Kyoto, which would include a day trip to Nara. Also thinking of 2 nights Takayama with an additional night in Toyama since it *appears* that would make it easier to do the Tateyama Kurobe Alpine Route (much more research needed on that) and it would be an easy train access point to Kyoto. It could also allow an opportunity to see the Kenrokuen Garden in Kanazawa on the way to Kyoto. We're somewhat concerned about the train/bus time involved with Takayama (and environs), but we think we'd enjoy both the city and the overall area. We fly out of Osaka at 5 pm, so there is some sightseeing time on our final day.

We'd appreciate the thoughts and guidance of the Japan experts here. Thanks!

I can't tell you how to divide your time, but can offer the following observations:

For my interests, 3 nights would be JUST enough for Takayama. Or, if you include Kanazawa, 5 nights for the pair, split 2/3 or 3/2 depending on your timing and preferences.

Many people visit Nara as a day trip from Kyoto; I thought it worth at least 2 or 3 nights (2 FULL days).

I trust you've seen japan-guide.com? It's an excellent resource, IMO.

Thanks kja for your input (I was hoping you'd weigh in) and yes, we've gone through japan-guide.com, which is very helpful, as are so many of the posts here. We share the concern that this could be too much in a limited time and I suppose one un-stated question in our post is if we should try and even do Takayama or instead just focus on Kyoto. Personally, my concern is more along the time to get there for a shorter stay--with 8 nights we don't necessarily want to spend all of our time in transit. At the same time, I don't want "the perfect to be the enemy of the good" and I can probably think of 20 places around the world where I wish we would have had more time, but still really enjoyed ourselves.

If we did skip Takayama and had more time in Kyoto, that would allow us to spend more time in Nara. (Sort of a trade-off between Takayama and Nara, in that sense.) Otherwise, I don't see how it could be more than a day trip and we'd have to assess if that day trip was worth giving up a sightseeing day in Kyoto. Lots to figure out!

The good news: you don't have a bad option, just a difficult choice. Good luck!

[This part deleted by the cat ... who just walked all over my keyboard..... 😻. I'll re-do comments about the Alpine Route etc. later ....]

[Edited to add the missing bit ...].

I don’t know if 1994 was the last time you were in Japan but, if it was, prepare yourself for wall-to-wall tourists. In 1994, the number of inbound tourists was about 3 million. Last year, it was over 30 million. Inbound tourism has grown exponentially over the last seven years and will probably reach 32 - 33 million this year. Four countries (China, Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong) account for about 70% of the tourists.

Your proposed trip has four parts - the Alpine Route, Takayama, Kanazawa and Kyoto (and Nara). The Alpine Route goes from Tateyama in the west to Shinano-Omachi in the east, though logically you would do it east to west (ending up at Toyama). The logical jumping off point would be Matsumoto (or perhaps Nagano). You could - possibly - do it in a day but it would be a very long day. Tokyo to Matsumoto takes about four hours. The Route itself takes most of the day so by the time you make it to Toyama it will be a very long day. When we did it, we went west to east, leaving Toyama about 6+ am and getting to Matsumoto around 5 pm. Your rate of progress is limited by the various modes of transport, which run to a not-as-frequent-as-you-would-like schedule. As a result, you end up standing in line for the next cable car, trolley bus etc. We made it on each time though on a really busy day, the risk would be a lot of people in line in front of you and having to wait for the next one (in half an hour or whatever). They grade the days based on the number of expected people on a scale of 1 to 5. We went on a “2” day in October - lots of people but fortunately not enough to ever make it a real problem. However, a “5” day would probably be horrendous. Given your time constraints, I suspect trying to do the Alpine Route will be a bridge too far.

Kanazawa is certainly worth a visit. In addition to the superb Kenrokuen, we like the the D.T. Suzuki Museum ... and who knew (my daughter, as it turned out) that Kanazawa was the centre of gold leaf production in Japan?

Takayama is certainly worthwhile but personally I'd take Kanazawa over Takayama if further compromise was required. That said, perhaps Tokyo to Takayama (via Toyama) to Kanazawa to Kyoto (and a day in Nara)?

If you follow that route, then the JR Hokuriku Arch Pass may be of interest. Given your late arrival, stay close to whichever Tokyo Airport you're arriving at (so that you have minimal transport costs that night) and then start the (7 day) Pass the next day. You'll see that the Pass only covers the trip south from Toyama as far as Inotani (on the way to Takayama) so you'd have to pay separately for Inotani to Takayama and back.

For some of us, you can never have too much time in Kyoto. Don't know where you went last time but my advice would be to avoid the so-called "must see" places (such as Fushimi Inari, Kinkaku-ji, Kiyomizudera etc., which will be wall-to-wall tourists) and choose some of the other 2,000+ temples, shrines and other sites/sights.

That's one of the reasons I made Kanazawa a priority for my trip to Japan! There are some excellent pieces in its museums, there are some places where you can watch and learn about the local techniques, and reasonable quality Kanazawa-style gold leaf can be purchased more affordably there than elsewhere, at least as a rule.

We leave for Japan for a 10 day trip in a few weeks. I did look at Kanzanawa but decided against it as the weather was not great in January. Also looked at Takayama as we loved it the first time there in 2008. We had two nights in Takayama which was just about enough but could easily have stayed longer . Some photos from our time there @ https://accidentalnomads.com/category/asia/japan/ we stayed at Sumiyoshi Ryokan a wonderful, mid range ryokan, that I would highly recommend.

After much indecision, we decided to split our time 4 days Tokyo and 6 Kyoto and look at some day trips from both places. Off to ask a few questions of my own in a new post. Last time we weren’t overly impressed with Nara ( I say we , my wife puts it down to the weather when we were there) notwithstanding that, on balance, I think I preferred Takayama.

tt7: yes, 1994 was the last the time we have been to Japan on vacation, although there have been a handful of business trips since then--but that's such a different type of trip. We are expecting crowds and, in fact, moved our trip from November to October since it appeared that Kyoto might be a bit more manageable then. It's also part of the reason we're considering Takayama and nearby areas, since it holds out the possibility of some fall color in late October.

While I've only just started researching the Alpine Route, based on everything you're saying that would exceed our hassle factor. It also looks like we might need to dig into Kanazawa a bit more as an alternative to Takayama. Lastly, thanks for the tips on avoiding the "must see" places, which makes a ton of sense.

Beautiful pictures crellston! That's just the kind of experience we'd be looking for there.