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Special Prices for Asians Only - your thoughts please?

Special Prices for Asians Only - your thoughts please?

Mar 22nd, 2004, 04:23 PM
  #41  
 
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lol. "Darkie" tooth paste. it was still sold in thailand untill about five years ago.

Asian didn't learn racism from Europeans.. racism is basicaly coused by a combination of Power, Economic divergence, and ignorance.

the hotel issue is bscacly econocly driven..Adam Smith would be proud.

But some of the things that go on in markets and other places where an Asian and forigner interact is caused by some discrimination bassed on ignorance. many thais for instance think that I am automaticly rich since I have a big nose and olive skin..

the level of what may be viewed as discrimination also matters in what country your in for example in richer coutries like Japan, you may not be faced by many instances of feeling like your getting ripped off just for the way you look..

Then again if this is the case I guess most people may have been correct and the whole issue was just purely econocily driven.

OK see ya later I'm going too thai class. so that I will hopefully know when someone tells me "you pay more. you no good dirty American pig".
orgy7 is offline  
Mar 22nd, 2004, 05:06 PM
  #42  
 
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I don't see how a business promotion where the terms are spelled out has anything to do with discrimination.

Many US business has promotions just for US residents as well. It's pure business marketing tactics. An airline, for example, would award members living in the US extra miles for booking certain trips. Pure business moves.

Perhaps the hotel want to attract more local business. Why would anyone offended? If you don't like what that particular hotel does, find another one.
singlegalzzz is offline  
Mar 22nd, 2004, 06:39 PM
  #43  
 
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We could go on with examples ad nauseam, I guess, but I've met Australians of British descent who returned from the UK incensed because they had to stand in the immigration slow lane at Heathrow while French, German and other EU citizens got fast-tracked. It seemed outrageous to them that Australians, some of whom fought to defend the "mother country" during WW2, would end up getting bumped in favour of former enemies. Another cae of discrimination, but hardly racist.

Neil_Oz is offline  
Mar 22nd, 2004, 06:43 PM
  #44  
 
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orgy is correct!

I misremembered the name, it was "Darkie" toothpaste, not "Blackie" Toothpaste. Thanks for the correction, orgy.
easytraveler is offline  
Mar 22nd, 2004, 06:51 PM
  #45  
 
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Thsi promotion just to remind everyone was stated as a promotion for 'ASEAN' (Association of South East Asia Nations) as a 'regional' PRPMOTION, never was it based on race, it was a local promotion and as so many have added there are promotions all over the world of a similar nature.

Aine wrotebr />
"I think discussing matters like these does help enormously with "tolerance and understanding in the world"

But Aine, it NEVER was racial in the first place and then it became so. There is racial prejudice everywhere including Asia but this was nothing to do with it.

It comes under the same category as any promotion for a given group. No one at that resort said 'I know, let's give a discount based on colour'!

They simply have a regional promotion which you managed to utrn into a racial issue which it never was. I see it all ways being Caucasian with an Asia wife and one child who is quite dark and the second one being 'very' light skinned with a brown hair tint. So I see/get it all way.
But a promotion within a 'geographical' region to stimulate business during a downturn/low period is not racial.
You got your discount, you could have done that right away without creating all this.
JamesA is offline  
Mar 22nd, 2004, 06:53 PM
  #46  
 
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The toothpaste was changed to 'Darlie', in the original it used to have an Al Johnson type character on it with beaming white teeth.
JamesA is offline  
Mar 23rd, 2004, 01:05 AM
  #47  
 
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This thread is really strange and stupid.

FYI for all of you who use the "Darlie" or ex "Darkie" toothpaste as an example of how Asians are racist - the owner and manufacuturer of this toothpast is Colgate-Palmolive. I don't think that's an Asian company!
Hanuman is offline  
Mar 23rd, 2004, 07:05 AM
  #48  
 
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hanuman: I beg to disagree.

Before you go around slamming people as "strange and stupid", perhaps you could re-read the messages and understand exactly what they say?

The Darkie-Darlie Toothpaste example was used to show that Asians do NOT share the same racial prejudices as are current in the US. How you can get exactly the opposite meaning is beyond me!

By the way, it was only after Colgate-Palmolive acquired the company that the name was changed to "Darlie". Before that, the toothpaste was strictly an Asian product, very popular in many Asian countries and, I believe, still is.

For God's sake, the whole thing was meant by the Asians as a complement to the blacks. The Asian manufacturers were telling their potential customers to use the toothpaste and LOOK like blacks - with those brilliant flashing teeth. It was a COMPLEMENT, which was totally distorted by the mirror of AMERICAN civil rights correctness.

BTW, Cantonese mothers still tell their children to brush their teeth with "Hak Yen Nga Gau" "Black Man Tooth Paste". There is NOTHING racist in this statement, absolutely none.

My plea was not to read prejudices into situations where there are none. Apparently the plea can be totally misread and distorted.
easytraveler is offline  
Mar 23rd, 2004, 07:29 AM
  #49  
 
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Easy.. - apologies I misread your post.
Hanuman is offline  
Mar 23rd, 2004, 02:17 PM
  #50  
 
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Not a problem, Hanuman! No apologies needed!

Just glad we're communicating!

easytraveler is offline  
Apr 12th, 2004, 09:06 PM
  #51  
 
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easytraveler maybe you'r not aware but darkie toothpaste used a blackface minstrel caricature.

http://www.prmuseum.com/kendrix/gifs/darkie2.jpg

Even if it was meant as a complement, it is anachronistic (look up the history of the toothpaste) and produces ignorance. Imagine young Cantonese and Taiwinise tourists visiting other countries with black populations. Walking around pointing out and staring at black people and calling them "blackie," I'm sure that will end well.


Imagine a Japanese media company bought Cartoon Network and they still showed old Bugs Bunny cartoons with stereotyped slant-eyed, buck-toothed yellowface jap caricature. Even if it is only broadcasted in the states, Japanese people would have justified reasons to make a big fuss against the hypothetical Japanese company that would allow another company it controls to display such discriminatory images.

http://www.rotten.com/library/cultur...artoons/nc.jpg

The way you make it sound is that Asians are not able to apreciate racism-related anxiety of another group of people. Either because they are simple, don't care, or just want to be racist themselves. Fortunately I know that is not the case.
cult is offline  
Apr 13th, 2004, 07:29 AM
  #52  
 
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Well, cult, you are certainly free to believe anything you want to believe.

I still claim that everyone else in the world learnt racism from Europeans and Americans, because that is where modern day racism started. Look up the name Gobineau - that's not an Asian name, as far as I am aware.

The Japanese were the first and best learners. In apartheid South Africa, the Japanese wanted to be considered as "white".

I distinguish "racism" from "ethnocentrism", which is the type of illusory superiority that the Chinese and the Persians held and probably still hold to one degree or another.

Anyhow, my argument is still that one shouldn't broadbrush paint everything and everyone with the prejudices that are inherent in one's own society, but not in others.

As for the "Darkie" Toothpaste, the box had a black face but the man was dressed in a top hat and bow tie. I remember that box. Like, how many Asians would have considered that as derogatory? Why would a company use a logo that wouldn't help it sell its product? Just to be mean and discriminatory to blacks?

The box today has a face that half white and half black - still dressed in a top hat. What is the social significance of the revised picture? Or is there a social significance? Isn't the company still trying to sell a very popular toothpaste? Isn't that the only reason why the logo exists as it is?

Unfortunately, racism has spread across the world, just like other modern things such as auto pollution. You may "know better". However, I think you blind yourself to the local prejudices and discriminations when you layer on your own cultural prejudices and discriminations.
easytraveler is offline  
Apr 13th, 2004, 12:18 PM
  #53  
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easytraveler: What happened to your "let it go please" as you advised me. It seems you always have to have the last, (forgive me) boring, drawn out, word. I did give this up because I was horrified at your insensitivity with the toothpaste comment. I dont know what your point is but I can just imagine you now, on vacation, you will be the one with the "kids gone wild" and the insufferable loud mouth droning on at the next table! Take a dose of your own medicine and let it go! Thanks
Aine is offline  
Apr 14th, 2004, 04:13 AM
  #54  
 
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easy... race isnt just black white and asian, which are some of the catigories in the US cencus it's more complex then that and can differ in every country. for instance in America I jot down hispanic. but my true race under the Colombian census is "MASTISO" becouse we come from desendends of spaniards. black slaves and local indiginous people. And here in thailand I am a farang which places me along side anyone who's not japaees,chinees, indian or black

sure the defeniton of race is the broader social catigory often including many ethnisities". but most people now and in histoyr have not studies race and ethnicity in collage. they just have felt oppressed or felt disdane for others who look. or act diffrent then they. So may'be racism and ethnocentrism are not that for removed.

Here in thailand and in parts of Asia "racism" is based more on nationalism" for instance many thais dislike Indians and "arabs" becouse they think they are dirty... is that a racist view. I don't know.

jeez I've posted so much that I don't even know what side im trying too debate.

anyways happy new years
orgy7 is offline  
Apr 14th, 2004, 11:47 PM
  #55  
 
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=easytraveler=
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I still claim that everyone else in the world learnt racism from Europeans and Americans, because that is where modern day racism started. Look up the name Gobineau - that's not an Asian name, as far as I am aware.
---------------------------------

Oh it was the Europeans who taught the Japanese to discriminate against Ainu and the Buraki. All forms of discrimination are equally amoral, so don't go saying Buraki doesn't count. The only thing they learned from the Europeans was that "all man are created equal" which was adopted during the Meiji Restoration. It is primitive human nature to think in terms of "us" and "them" it is not something that was invented by Gobineau. Another thing, why can't Asia learn the modern western concept of civil rights and other positive elements of a modern society? Oh, wait, I know why. They never learned racism and other forms of discrimination from other people in the first place.


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The Japanese were the first and best learners. In apartheid South Africa, the Japanese wanted to be considered as "white".
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Oh, the horror. How dare they. How dare they catogorize the Japanese in the same group with those ugly sub-human black monkeys. That is so disrespectful. And white gaijins are treated so nicely in Japan. Japanese don't even get mad at foreigners who can't speak Japanese. The Japanese kids are so nice to their foreign and inter-racial classmates. Oh yeah wait I forgot. It was the westerners who taught Japanese to be racist. So it is okay for Japanese to be racist and not the S. African who discriminate indiscriminately.



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I distinguish "racism" from "ethnocentrism", which is the type of illusory superiority that the Chinese and the Persians held and probably still hold to one degree or another.
---------------------------------

Those two phenomena feed on each other and they're both as amoral. Neither of them is ok and they both can inflict the same harm to society.


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Anyhow, my argument is still that one shouldn't broadbrush paint everything and everyone with the prejudices that are inherent in one's own society, but not in others.
---------------------------------

What, are you trying to say that because discrimination is wrong in my society but not in Asian countries it is ok. So I shouldn't feel bad when an Asian person calls me "darkie," I should feel flattered, scream back, "Hey yellow monkey."


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As for the "Darkie" Toothpaste, the box had a black face but the man was dressed in a top hat and bow tie. I remember that box.
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It was a condescending, patronizing image because black people were poor so you would never see a real black person in a top hat and tie walking around in the slums, and at the time they were considered by the whites not sophisticated enough for a top hat and tie. So poor Black actors were underpaid to paint their face black and use red lipstick to make giant clown lips (because all black people have giant lips and it is really funny to gawk at). They would put on a top hat and tie and also a tuxedo. But it wasn't really a tuxedo, see the tail and the bottom of the suit were actually a chicken suite. All in all there is nothing respectful about the top hat and tie. These caricatures were usually called Mr. Coon, which is the black equivalent of a Chinese person being called "chink," not a nice word, neither of them. Their acts usually consisted of acting like a dumbass and playing out black stereotypes, like uncontrollably salivating when presented with a watermelon. So it is very upsetting for both black and white westerners when they are presented with an image of blackface. Notice how I spell blackface as one word, look it up in a dictionary.

The founder of Hawley & Hazel Chemical Co. saw one of these acts and used the image in his brand. There is nothing strange about this because westerners at the time also used blackface in their advertisement. But they obviously stopped with the onset of civil rights movement and generally wanting to live in a more compassionate civil society.


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Like, how many Asians would have considered that as derogatory? Why would a company use a logo that wouldn't help it sell its product?
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That is what I meant with anachronistic, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I can completely appreciate the fact that Asians don't understand the significant of blackface and I know they didn't.


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Just to be mean and discriminatory to blacks?
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The image can still perpetuate ignorant hurtful image of black people, and don't you think it is a nice gesture of compassion and understanding on behalf of the Asian people for their fellow world citizen if they stopped using the blackface image upon learning it's history? Please respond.


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The box today has a face that half white and half black - still dressed in a top hat.
---------------------------------

If you look close at the image it doesn't have the stereotypical balloon cheeks, giant lips, gouging eyes, or idiotic smile iconic of blackface. Now it has the facial features that are obviously of a white man. Asian people of course aren't sensitive to this. That is why the sales haven't suffered.


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What is the social significance of the revised picture? Or is there a social significance?
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Exactly there is no social significance of a white person in a top hat. Gosh there were actual normal white people walking around in top hats and bow ties during the time blackface was still practiced.


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Isn't the company still trying to sell a very popular toothpaste?
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Your telling me if most Asians completely understood how hurtful the image of blackface actually was and still is, the brand would be still as successful. Wow, Asians must be completely incapable of understanding other people's ales.


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Isn't that the only reason why the logo exists as it is?
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As the sales indicate the brand was able to stay just as strong after the compromise. For the record I am perfectly ok with the present brand. There is no hurtful image, and the name was and always will be meaningless. I hope you understand why black people in the WEST "kicked up a HUGE fuss" WITH a WESTERN company for allowing a company they controlled and make money from, use such hurtful images. Black people had a problem mostly with Colgate, not with Hawley & Hazel or the Asian people.

On a bit of a side note there also existed yellowface. Where a white person would paint their faces yellow and their teeth black. Donned in a wig made out of a mop dyed black, he would also act like a dumbass, say twisted proverbs parodied from Confucius, play out Asian stereotypes like how they don?t take baths and eat rats. So the founder of Hawley & Hazel should have branded the toothpaste like this: a yellowface with the caption ?Don?t look like this Asian man? next to a blackface with the caption ?Look like THIS Black man.? You think that would have sold well?


=orgy7=

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Here in thailand and in parts of Asia "racism" is based more on nationalism" for instance many thais dislike Indians and "arabs" becouse they think they are dirty... is that a racist view. I don't know.
---------------------------------

Gee, ... you don't know if that's racism. You must not have a dictionary. Tell you what, where I live, Colombian woman are assumed to be materialistic STD-spreading gold-diggers, and men are assumed to be dangerouse drug-dealing gangsters right out the bat. They would assume you are bad person based solely on the population you belong too. Is that ... racial discrimination ... is that ... bad? (Hint: Just between you and me, it definitely is)

Also don't you think the way race is perceived in S. America is a bit messed up? Like one person could be considered lighter or darker than the next, even if the only difference between them is social class or wealth. Or how hurtful it can be when a society consider black features ugly, especially for girls.
rls.
cult is offline  
Apr 15th, 2004, 06:53 AM
  #56  
 
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Aine,

Get over it. There's nothing to be done. When I went to Thailand last December I was fortunate to have a Thai friend that booked my rooms etc.. You are a ferang, foreigner, and expected to pay more. I probably saved close to half on my room rates because my friend booked them. That of course doesn't apply to everything, food etc.. Have fun.
butzbach is offline  

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