Gpanda

Would it be wrong for me to note that this problem is actually a trilemna and not a dilemna?

N-the best part of HH will be that Bob will not be there. It will be safe to walk and dine unencumbered.

rhkkmk

you never know if we might show up in thailand in nov/dec....it would be fun, but after 60 days in may/june we might be tired of asia..?? doubtful however....

Smeagol

Bob you tired of Asia!!! your kidding!!
Kathie have checked out some of your pictures and they are great, am going to check out the others later tonight and read your trip report, thanks for topping.

Andy - you are a funny man.

Gpanda

Bob, tired of asia and voting for Hillary. equally likely to happen. The hotel managers in the rest of the world are not so patient.

Nikki-I really think you and M would like Luang Prabang. Beatiful, relaxing and tres chic. Four days there would be perfect.

Smeagol

OK so i am totally confused now. Its a 3 way tie betwen Vietnam, Cambodia and Loas...
So if we went to Vietnam everyone keeps telling me.. you must go to hanoi over HCMC, does anyone know what sort of weather to expect late November? could we get to Nha trang easy from Hanoi? (like NOT flying...)as this sounds like a nice place to chill out...
BUT am concerned i need to get myself over to SR before it gets too overun, would you say that it has other things to offer as well as AW?

Soz for all the questions but am getting so confused......

Gpanda

No beach near Hanoi for November. Siem Riep is just for the temples. No beach near there either. SR is getting overrun, but unless you want to see incredible temples, there's little reason to go.

Keeping it to only two flights, the only beach options are Hua Hin and environs and Pattaya/Jomtien.

I do note that November is 9 months away. You do have some time to consider your options.

I have suggested to Beth that BKK might be nice in November. She is cool to the subject. I'm not sure how long to hold off before begging.

glorialf

I was in Siem Reap in the early 90's and during my 3 or 4 days there I saw a total of two other tourists. So I am sure I would consider it over run now. I saw it with no tour buses, no one selling anything. On the down side we were very worried about land mines and the khmer rouge. However, while I have no desire to return with the crowds, I am equally sure that the temples will remain spectacular no matter whether you go now or 5 years from now. The Temple of the Emerald Buddha is much more crowded than it was when I went in 1985 but it still makes me gasp. I saw the Taj Mahal in 1997 and I suspect I felt it was as incredible as people did 50 years ago. On the other hand, a place like Luang Prabang's major charm is the atmosphere and its people. So if you have to pick between it and Siem Reap for this trip -- I would go to LP before it gets more touristy rather than Siem Reap.

rhkkmk

gloria has made some good observations....

there is nothing hip or glitzy in LP, but there are a few decent restaruants and a bit of a lay back...

certainly muffin needs the lay back....he is so stressed....having to look good at all times and being in such demand./...

glorialf

And it would be great if we could coordinate and be in LP at the same time! I'll be there early Dec.

Gpanda

Should I send Muffin a speedo?

rhkkmk

one middle aged show off is enough...in fact tooooo much

Smeagol

Gloria would lifve to catch up but we have to catch the Nov 30th flight back to the UK, plan to be in SE Asia from around Nov 16th, although nothing is confirmed yet so it could be later, will keep you posted.I also like your rational re places and over cowding... iguess compared to a few years ago a lot of these countries are now way more touristy...
Am still undecided (LP is REALLY calling to me) but there is a travel show on at a local exhibition centre this weekend and it usually has some really good TA's there so will get some advice. Am also looking at doing some of Vietnam by train!!! just need to be careful about weather as M and I have a tendancy to follow rain.....

Andy - kind offer re the speedos for M, but would A) like for him NOT to be arrested B) would prefere to keep my lunch down on holiday!!!

Gpanda

Why should good taste get in the way of M's swimwear? We could start a Fodors beefcake calendar.

Quit the agonizing. Just choose LP and be done with it. TA's will recommewnd only that which will make them money.

rhkkmk

i think either LP or pattaya would suit you...

or hip scotch around bkk to several lux places

Smeagol

Andy - see that is the key word Beefcake!!!!!!!!

I really am leaning towards to LP ... need to do some research...

Ok Pattaya, i always thought it was a really touristy/overcrowded place?? not so?

glorialf

I thought Pattaya was touristy and tacky 15 years ago -- I can't image that it has improved much. I was supposed to be there for three days and left after one, Thought it was awful.

Kathie

Yes, Pattaya is sleazy, but there have been a number of new hotels open that are reportedly very nice and a bit away from the sleazy area. It might be fine for Muffin who wants to see sea and sand but not touch it (the water is reportedly rather dirty), but I have to say it's not on my list of places I want to visit.

rhkkmk

we had the exact same impressions of pattaya and stayed away for a number of years, but then we decided that we must visit...

yes the downtown is "seedy", drug and sex driven, but you do not have to go down there....the walk-in street is interesting and fun at nite, again not for the non-open minded....lots of yelling and encouragement to come in for a drink....muffin would think they were in love with him...make sure it is not a 'lady-boy'...

but there are some excellent restaurants around pattaya, especially on the jontiem side of the hill---the nicer side...

the cliff hotel billT just stayed at and the sheraton where we stayed are in the same neighborhood and above it all and away from the sleeze, but close enough for you to go to town if you want....
the beach at jontiem is much nicer too....i personally think i would not go in the water in the area but the hotels have fantastic pools....the sheraton has several...the hotel is built into a hillside that is terraced down to the beach....many pools....

two hour ride from bkk, closer to town than HH....

i would rate the sheraton as at least as nice as the hyatt in HH or one small step better...the room we had was the biggest hotel room we have ever had...hotel is about 5 years old....

Smeagol

Am still not convinced about Pattaya.. sounds too built up for us, one of the things we liked about HH was that it was "fairly" low key and you could have a nice peacful stroll along the beach at sunset...
Am trying to negotiate a 3rd intenal flight, this opens up some options ...
Has anyone done any train travel in Vietnam? i am seriously considering this from Hanoi, stopping of at Nha trang bit of a relax then on to HCMC...or visa versa

thursdaysd

Yes, I've taken the train from Hanoi to Hue, from Hanoi to Danang, and from Danang to Saigon. I think I already posted the seat61.com/Vietnam.htm link - that site has pix of the trains, and schedules. The trains are OK, but not up to the comfort of Chinese soft sleeper. Take food and water. You do realize that Hanoi to Nha Trang will take in the vicinity of 24 hours? Breaking the journey in Hue or Danang/Hoi An is more usual.