Siem Reap Ponheary experience
 

We're in the BKK airport, having stayed in Chiang Mai (Northern Thailand) for the treat at the end of our journey. I'm afraid we stopped e -mailing once we were in Siem Reap. That experience was the defining moment of the trip.
We were met at the airport in Cambodia by Ponheary, the teacher/guide who would be taking us to the school(s) and then to teach us about Angkor Wat and the temples in Cambodia.
Ponheary is a very strong person, and from the minute I met her I knew there was an incredible history and sadness that surrounded her. Her father was a teacher during the Khmer Rouge regime. The soldiers rounded up all of the teachers, particularly those who spoke French, and massacred them. Burned alive and buried in mass graves. Ponheary was sent to a "Children's Work Camp."
During our time with Ponheary, we met yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Her bitterness about the Khmer Rouge is searing, and she reminded me of of my childhood friend's mother who was a survivor of the concentration camps during WW2.
All roads led back to Ponheary's experience. We would be in a temple site, or visiting the school children, or just in the middle of some happenstance experience, and something would trigger a memory.
One day, as we were driving along, I asked her to stop so I could take a picture. When she got out of the van, she stepped right into a red ant hole....Yikes, I thought. "Are you alright?" She shrugged it off.
Then she told us the story. At the "Children's Camp", Ponheary would sneak away at night to visit her mother. She missed home. One night someone told on her. She was tied to a tree where there were red ants. The ants crawled all over her body. She closed her eyes as they covered her face and her body.
"I never cried...not once...not one tear."
While we were visiting Ankor Wat, the premier attraction of Siem Reap....a World Heritage site with a bas relief surrounding the Temple (240' one way...200' the other.) Ponheary woould recount the stories being told on the walls. Next thing I know, she's telling the story of the little boy at the camp. The camp was a prison with no bars. You knew not to leave. One little boy saw a frog hopping along. He chased the frog. The frog leaped...the boy leaped. Then he was outside the imaginary wall and the soldiers found him. "What are you doing?" they demanded.
"I wanted to catch the frog".
Of course there was no frog by this time. It had smartly hopped away, so the soldiers did not believe the little boy.
"What would you have done with the frog if you had caught it?" The soldiers demanded.
"I would have cooked it and eaten it", replied the boy.
So the soldiers tied the boy to the tree and cooked him.
The little boy didn't die on the tree. He burned and burned, and then they cut him down. Burned all over, he staggered to his mother. His mother, who had watched him tied to the tree could do nothing.
So she still did nothing She didn't touch him and she didn't say one word. She didn't cry one tear. Not one.
Ponheary watched as the boy was set afire. Ponheary saw the mother cry no tears.

I am at a loss for words as to how to respond to this sad story of the brutality of the Khmer Rouge.

I am currently reading the book "First They Killed My Father". It is heartwrenching.

Ponheary's experiences have really stuck with us. I recounted the red ant story to my Rotary Club last Friday. Did you notice that Ponheary would often smile when she shared these experiences? I suspect it is because she is so happy now that the Khmer Rouge are no longer committing these horrible acts.

When I read your expericece with Ponheary, I felt sad. Thank your for sharing.

i want to comment, but i won't or can't....i don't know if i am sad, mad or just what i feel....i think she would not be the guide for me...

after comign back from Cambodia in 2001, I read 3 books on Khmer Rouge

When Broken Glass Floats
First They Killed My Father
The Stones Cry Out

All are the stories of young girls growing up under the Khmer Rouge, all watched their families get destroyed. I also read one more book of short story life accounts. All horrible!

rhkkmk
may I ask why she would not be the guide for you?
j

Jules39,
I'm in a same position with rhkkmk. I'm sorry that some folks had experienced some brutal moments. For me, I'm not sure I want to have her as a guide because I don't want to feel sad and down based on her stories, while I'm on vacation, IMO.

Feeling sad is part of the unavoidable experience of going to Cambodia. Just like going to Rwanda, virtually any person you talk to was affected by the genocide.

I consider it a privilege to have a guide who can share their stories with me.

The Khmer Rouge were so brutal. It just blows my mind when I hear stories like this. I just can't imagine how human beings can act that way. It wouldn't bother me to have Ponheary or any other guide telling me these stories. It's part of the history of their country and is fascinating to hear how these people have overcome such horrors even though it is terribly sad. I will be using her brother as a guide in May, so I'm sure he'll have some stories too.

One of the reasons I chose Ponheary in the first place was to get more than just a tour guide. I think an important part of the education of visiting Cambodia is hearing these stories. It wasn't like she was constantly telling us about these experiences during the whole time we were with her. When she did tell us, it was more a matter-of-fact. Personally, it made me mad, not sad to hear the stories and I am very happy that Ponheary and her family's lives have changed so much for the better.

Two items.

First, we used Ponheary as a guide and she mentioned her experiences with the Khmer Rouge, but did not dwell on them. She is a great guide. It would be a mistake to skip her.

Second, I'm reading a book entitled "The Lost Executioner" about the warden of Tuol Seng prison in PP during the reign of the KR. The "vision" of the KR is chilling. Also, they only stopped fighting in 1998. Scary.

clear - does that mean you won't go to Tuol Sleng and Choeung Ek in Phnom Penh either? They are incredibly sad whether or not you hear stories from survivors. But they are such an important part of why Cambodia is the way it is now. I suppose I see visiting a place like Cambodia less as a vacation and more as an experience - but then I'm retired so I guess I don't take vacations any more.

It's hard for me to be completely objective about some of the statements here since I was so profoundly moved by my experiences in Cambodia. Although I did not have Ponheary as my guide (guide was booked via tour operator), being sad/moved/disturbed is part of visiting Cambodia and feeling the horror of what these people have had to live through.

Yes, people can go to Angkor Wat, stay in 4 star hotels, travel in fine cars, and never interact with the people and their history. Not trying to be judgemental here but I think something is missed in an experience that skims that whole part, the occupations, the brutality, the poverty etc. and not feeling sad. There are many other places to visit if a person doesn't want to feel that sadness (Thailand for example).

My visit to Cambodia affected me deeply. I wanted to know more about the history and the people. When offwego (Lori) said what she was doing to help kids there, I couldn't wait to join. For me, the sadness I felt in Cambodia became channeled into trying to help. When I visit Cambodia again, I will want to see Siem Reap with Ponheary.

thursdaysd,
I would go to Asia in a heart beat, I love Asia. I was born in Myanmar but been in US for over 20 yrs now. I'm 37. I would love to visit Cambodia, as Gpanda & Craig mentioned (Ponheary doesn't dwell on them) then it won't be bad. My husband and I went to BKK, (Myanmar/Ngapali Beach, Rangoon and Bagan- sp in Dec 04 and loved it. We are planning to go back to Asia this year. So many places to see.

I was lucky to have Ponheary as a guide about 4 years ago. She is a fabulous guide and can read her clients well. She can tell when to stop or carry on with the extensive information she has to give. She did tell us some of her experiences under the Khmer Rouge and I didn't feel she was doing anything other than giving us an incite into what had happened.

The elections were on just as we were there so we also talked a lot about how the situation was at present. One of the things that impressed me was that she said people were determined to put it behind them and so even if a person had been in the Khmer Rouge everybody now tried to ignore that and deal with things as they now are.

Thanks for your report back on your experience.

During our time with Ponheary I heard a couple of these stories and I felt it enriched the experience. Reading about it is one thing. Hearing it from someone who survived it is quite another and somehow the understanding of it in that personal way has helped me become more aware and a better global citizen.

We're on vacation there, it's true, but we're in a country that was decimated by autogenocide and it's a story that needs telling. And remembering.

Too many of the survivors of the Khmer will take their stories to their graves and that is bad for the collective phyche. What if no one talked about the holocaust? There are some things we need to know and remember. And be vigilant against.

I suggested to Ponheary once that she should write a book. She told me in a very matter of fact way that she "lived through it once but was not sure she could live through it again". I argued the point about this history being forgotten, so if she's learning to tell her story to those who want to hear, then I'm proud of her.

Ponheary is absolutely correct in her assessment that if the poorest in Cambodia can become educated or at least literate, then history has less of a chance of repeating itself. Her stories help illustrate the point about what the outcome is when young, poor illiterate peasants become armed, angry and then organized into troops by madmen.

Joyce and Don I would love it if you would contact me when you get home off line with details of your trips to the schools and maybe a few pics.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[email protected]

Now that I'm back home, I thought I'd hop back onto the thread I started. First of all, I'd like to comment on Bob's comment. I wrote this report primarily because of the touching experience with Ponheary. That being said, I understand exactly where Bob is coming from. Each of us experiences a country, or a site differently for different reasons...and everything has its proper moment...no value judgement involved. . Although it was not my primary purpose in writing this, I did also want to give other Fodorites a sense about Ponheary as a guide...so that the choice to use her would be informed. I have needed and used that kind of input so often from you all.
Don and I also like to put our our own stamp on the places we visit. So even though Ponheary had her ideas of where to go and what local places to stop and visit ....we had a couple of good moments we created ourselves. At one point Ponheary wanted to visit at a house where sugar cane was being "cooked". Turns out another guide had beat us to it. When we arrived, two Westerners were passing out tee shirts to the family and neighbors. Not our moment. I don't think Ponheary was too happy about that...but that led us to the next moment, about a mile down the road. I insisted that the driver stop when I saw a woman on her bicycle selling a sticky rice-coconut concoction to the children. I watched the woman spooning out rice and shaving coconut to the kids who had circled her bicycle. Then Don took some great pictures--even a short movie clip. The woman told Ponheary nobody had ever stopped her before...nobody had ever taken her picture. It was "Woman's Day".....so I paid for the neighborhood kids' treat, with a very large tip for the woman on the bicycle. Ponheary didn't create the moment, but it sure helped that she could translate.

Ponheary or any other guide for that matter will want to stop at places where they know the people. As you know from reading our post we stopped at a palm sugar place that Ponheary "knew" - noone else was there at the time so we had good photo ops. On the way back, Jeane decided that she wanted to buy more sugar for family at home so we just stopped at the first place we came upon - it was no problem and yielded additional photo ops.

we want to meet you guys. Hartford is near and dear to our hearts. What's going on with the spring meeting.?

I'm responding to my own message...Yikes! You know we're on Asia time still....That being said...Our time with Ponheary was one of the best experiences of our traveling (all time). Just want to make that clear.

"Cambodia less as a vacation and more as an experience"

That is well said. I had a guide only to Angkor, but before the trip I read both First They Killed My Father and
The Stones Cry Out. And how could I not remember the movie Killing Fields.

Khmer Rouge is such recent history that it hardly is history yet. And even when they do not exist any more the signs are everywhere. I stopped counting how many land mine victim orchestras I saw. But that is Cambodia, it is more than a holiday, it touches you, and everything that touches and provokes thoughts is good for you.

Present day Cambodia does not make one sad. They are building schools and medical centers, and look positively into future.

Very good point about the Khmer Rouge being such recent history that it isn't even history yet.

It's funny, when talking with one of my guides, a 23 year-old nice guy, I said something like "well, it looks like things are on the upswing and moving in a positive direction", and soon thereafter he said "to me, United States is heaven, and Cambodia is hell".

My other guide, a 38 year-old man, who I sensed had lived through some serious trauma, als was not so optimistic about the future. He mentioned the inability to speak freely. It does seem the government is fairly repressive; Sam Rainsy has been chased out of the country.

On a seemingly positive note though, in terms of democracy and freedom of speech, I did see an article in the New York Times a few weeks back about a bunch of peasants protesting their dire conditions. Here's the beginning of that article from the New York Times.

Haunted by Past Horrors, Cambodians Speak Out
January 30, 2006, Monday
By SETH MYDANS (International Herald Tribune); Foreign Desk
DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 1036 WORDS -Leaving their crops and animals behind, 800 of Cambodia's poorest people gathered the other day in the shade of a blue tarpaulin in a village south of the capital and poured out a torrent of complaints and demands. The price of fuel, the poor education system, problems with health...

And this:

http://tinyurl.com/g7xo9

My sister and I also had Ponheary as a guide when we visited Siem Reap. As I posted before, we stayed in her family's guesthouse - a two-bed room w/ cable tv, private bath, hot water, fridge w/ complimentary water - for US$15 a night. It was very clean and fun to meet her family. She did share some personal stories with us, but not to the extent that jodo talked about. When we were leaving, she asked if her driver could drive us back to Poipet over the "dancing road" and if it would be ok if she and her family joined us - they had never been there. Of course we didn't mind and it was fun to ride back to Poipet with her two nephews and neice and mother and other family members, I think there were 13 of us total, including my sister and I. (Two of the kids were school-age and it was a big deal for them...they were allowed to skip school that day :)) We got there and asked her what they were going to do - she said she wasn't sure, that they just wanted to see the border and have a look around, and would probably head home soon. (it's about a 4 1/2 hour ride...) I would whole-heartedly recommend her as a guide. If you're looking for a guide, here's her email address: [email protected]. She had also asked that I post her mobile phone number...here it is: (855) 012 910 759. Enjoy!

girl on the move

You may want to have a look at this:

pbase.com/loricarlson/plf

lori....does the foundation have official IRS certification? thanks

Wow, Lori that was fast - worked on photos today but it will be a few more days until I have pix and captions for your site - there are so many excellent ones to sort through!

Bob the 1023 form has been submitted to the IRS just last week (what a headache!) and it usually takes about 6 months for non-profit status to be awarded.

However, any donations made between the time of incorporation and the award are honored as tax-deductible by the IRS.

Craig I am anxious to see your photos...didn't anyone tell you you're supposed to take another week off when you retrun home to post your pictures and write your report? :)


Lori

Well I just went to the site of the Ponheary Ly Foundation and I am moved. My check is going out today!

Bravo Wayne!

By the way, I just traded email with Ponheary. (I feel so out of the clique on this group since everyone else has had her as a guide)

She knows Sothy, who was my guide back in 2001 & lives in the same village, just a little ways over. I am sure all the guides know each other.